The Winter Soldier Captain America: The Winter Soldier - User Review Thread! - SPOILERS! - Part 1

[Guard82]

I loved the movie. It left me on the edge of my seat the whole time, and I loved the interactions Cap had with Widow, Falcon, and Fury.

 

[Joeyjojo72]

I just noticed that Fury uses something called Tetrodotoxin B(sp?) to slow his pulse to one beat a minute and fake his death in TWS. He mentions that Banner developed it for stress, but it didn't work so well on him. Interesting little tidbit.

Derived from pufferfish (fugu!) I believe. Used to create "zombies".

 

[mkilban2]

^^ 4/10 for The Avengers? Did you have your eyes closed the entire time lol??

 

[Vartha]

or Thrush in The Man from UNCLE -- a show I loved as a younger person.

I didn't have a problem with

Spoiler

Hydra being a part of this story and I really liked the idea of Hydra infiltrating SHIELD.

There's historical precedence for that sort of thing in every society.
Large bureaucracies by nature tend to become monsters in order to justify their existence so I think it's appropriate that

Spoiler

Hydra with its tentacles get to pull the strings in the background. The monster behind the monster, as it were.

That was a pretty cool show. Loved the toys that sprung from that show (agent Zero M) lol

 

[Dark Raven]

I just noticed that Fury uses something called Tetrodotoxin B(sp?) to slow his pulse to one beat a minute and fake his death in TWS. He mentions that Banner developed it for stress, but it didn't work so well on him. Interesting little tidbit.

They've used that gimmick before on CSI, probably in more than one episode/ spin-off. Maybe Gary Sinise gave them the idea.

 

[Tony Stark]

Anyone else a little disappointed that [blackout] Winter Soldier ended up killing Sitwell? I really wanted to see Coulson kick his ass for what he did. I guess we'll find out tonight what his reaction is. [/blackout]

 

[hafizbat]

Anyone else a little disappointed that [blackout] Winter Soldier ended up killing Sitwell? I really wanted to see Coulson kick his ass for what he did. I guess we'll find out tonight what his reaction is. [/blackout]

Am I disappointed the Winter Soldier looked like a coldhearted and ruthless badass with no mercy? Nope. t:

 

[Mr.M]

Saw the film with my free tickets laying around. Wasn't intending to see it but the reviews were solid and I needed some entertainment. My two cents.

Plot wise it was good. Script was good. Action was good. Execution in other departments... meh. I was expecting something a little bit more grounded but I guess that has gone by the wayside after Avengers and Iron Man 3. It's a comic book movie after all. I guess I prefer Bourne style spy thrillers after that trilogy really set the standard, coupled with the latest Bond outings. I just guess I am one of those audiences that gets taken out of it when Black Widow and Cap do their thing without a scratch on them looking all pretty and glamoured up in the process. So I am disappointed that Marvel has completely abandoned the sense of realism in a character that sorely needs it.

I didn't get a real scope of the story in terms of nuances I was looking for, from the apparent enormity of events transpiring. How was SHIELD affecting ordinary citizens? Why was that entire US political backdrop omitted? Why did SHIELD have the autonomy to open fire in broad daylight on Captain America while the President and the general public are completely oblivious? It didn't make sense in relation to Iron Man 3 where the US government is heavily implicated in all the events. So SHIELDS complete autonomy throughout the movie really took out the realistic aspect and they ignored all the complications of that plot wise, and went with the generic, "Time to take over the World" plot.

I was disappointed with the lack of development of Bucky. No real underpinning with the character. No real back story provided. Why was the movie called Winter Soldier if you weren't even going to explore the character in depth? Action wise was good, but development wise... bad.

I thought the HYDRA agents did a good job. Clearly Redford was at the top of his game. The other henchman in the elevator did a great job. So solid villains overall.

Overall, they went with the bloated action fest, and the substance just wasn't there. Redford is really the only standout performance. Evans does his job but nothing more. Hell, I was rooting for HYDRA throughout the entire movie. Arnim Zola was probably the best scene in the movie and he won me over. HAIL HYDRA, order and tyranny FTW *****es!!!!!

7.0/10

 

[ThePowerCosmic]

...This guy works for HYDRA. ^

 

[The Endless]

Cap and Widow not having scratches on them? Both of them got smoked. Cap got shot three or four times even.

 

[Mr.M]

...This guy works for HYDRA. ^

If it was your wife and kids, What would you do??? Be honest with yourself.

Cap and Widow not having scratches on them? Both of them got smoked. Cap got shot three or four times even.

Someone needs to die soon. I could have forgiven them had they actually killed off Fury, but got to exercise that 9 movie deal I guess.

 

[ThePowerCosmic]

If it was your wife and kids, What would you do??? Be honest with yourself.

I'd saddle my ass up and start hailing HYDRA!

 

[Suzanne78]

Not to mention Widow got shot by Winter Soldier. Steve almost died and spent time in the hospital.

I think they're waiting to save any big deaths for Avengers 3. Maximum impact.

The impact here is on Steve and his connection to his past. Bucky, Peggy, HYDRA… they are all things he thought were behind him, and yet they keep pulling him back in…

 

[PacificBoy]

Widow was shot by the Winter Soldier, so was Cap, twice, by the same person. Stabbed in the shoulder too in the same fight on the helicarrier. The only time I was taken out of it was when Widow appeared too well made up after washing up from the bombing, but otherwise our heroes got banged up quite a bit.

 

[Mr.M]

Not to mention Widow got shot by Winter Soldier. Steve almost died and spent time in the hospital.

I think they're waiting to save any big deaths for Avengers 3. Maximum impact.

The impact here is on Steve and his connection to his past. Bucky, Peggy, HYDRA… they are all things he thought were behind him, and yet they keep pulling him back in…

Avengers 3 is too long. We need some Empire Strikes Back **** next year. I think we need a major death, and not just a sidekick death. Outside of Iron Man, Cap, Thor, Banner (and even they can be cryoed or something), I don't think anyone should be safe next summer. Then Avengers 3 needs another big one, like Iron Man or Cap, just to drive the story to a conclusion. Enough recasting/rebooting, and just call it a day. Otherwise this formula is gonna get old quick. Leave audiences wanting more and save stories for the next generation.

 

[Infinity9999x]

Plot wise it was good. Script was good. Action was good. Execution in other departments... meh. I was expecting something a little bit more grounded but I guess that has gone by the wayside after Avengers and Iron Man 3. It's a comic book movie after all. I guess I prefer Bourne style spy thrillers after that trilogy really set the standard, coupled with the latest Bond outings. I just guess I am one of those audiences that gets taken out of it when Black Widow and Cap do their thing without a scratch on them looking all pretty and glamoured up in the process. So I am disappointed that Marvel has completely abandoned the sense of realism in a character that sorely needs it.


7.0/10

I don't really understand where you get this particular idea. First off, Captain America is a superhero who has a brightly colored flag costume, has been alive since the 1940's, and has a special shield that is indestructible...yet you're annoyed because there wasn't a sense of realism...

Marvel has NEVER had much of sense of realism in it's films. The first Iron Man movie was just as fantastic as this one was. The movies have always been fairly heavy on action and scifi, expecting something different is a bit silly.

In terms of Cap and Widow not having a scratch...that was simply wrong. As others have stated, both get put through the ringer. Cap gets shot multiple times, having to stay in the hospital, and Widow got shot and sufficiently banged up. If you want one of the main characters to die...well, that's pretty silly as well. These are comic book movies, when people do die (and it's rare) they almost always come back. You can get annoyed at that, but that's kind of like getting annoyed that James Bond sleeps with a different woman in every film. It's the style of the genre, and trying to argue it is a bit pointless.

Overall, I think you came into this film with expectations that didn't fit the genre you were walking into at all, especially given the past history of these films.

 

[ThePowerCosmic]

lol, when the majority of the fans are relentlessly defending the movie, you know it's good.

 

[Ms. Marvel]

lol, when the majority of the fans are relentlessly defending the movie, you know it's good.

It's been a while.

 

[ThePowerCosmic]

It's been a while.

Definitely lol. I expect to see a lot more of this in the coming months. 2014's cbms look especially strong, and Cap has given them a magnificent start.

 

[Infinity9999x]

lol, when the majority of the fans are relentlessly defending the movie, you know it's good.

Haven't seen the like since the TDK days or Avengers. Both are good signs. But hey, a good movie moves people to arms. t:

 

[Mr.M]

I don't really understand where you get this particular idea. First off, Captain America is a superhero who has a brightly colored flag costume, has been alive since the 1940's, and has a special shield that is indestructible...yet you're annoyed because there wasn't a sense of realism...

Marvel has NEVER had much of sense of realism in it's films. The first Iron Man movie was just as fantastic as this one was. The movies have always been fairly heavy on action and scifi, expecting something different is a bit silly.

In terms of Cap and Widow not having a scratch...that was simply wrong. As others have stated, both get put through the ringer. Cap gets shot multiple times, having to stay in the hospital, and Widow got shot and sufficiently banged up. If you want one of the main characters to die...well, that's pretty silly as well. These are comic book movies, when people do die (and it's rare) they almost always come back. You can get annoyed at that, but that's kind of like getting annoyed that James Bond sleeps with a different woman in every film. It's the style of the genre, and trying to argue it is a bit pointless.

Overall, I think you came into this film with expectations that didn't fit the genre you were walking into at all, especially given the past history of these films.

Yeah but I am also the guy that sees the distinction between the comic medium and film medium. You need a drive a story forward, not dwell on the cliches and gimmicks. Then you get into episodic TV stuff where the same things keep happening, and only the bad guys change.

Where is Cap going in this universe? He is lost with his life. He has no real purpose now. So now off to the next episode where he discovers his new purpose... saving good old Buck. As a result, Evans is cornered into playing a one dimensional character and we don't get that development. Where is this assimilation into present day? A checklist in a mini scratch pad? Otherwise that entire concept is nonexistent.

This is the kind of episodic film making that will eventually stagnate the series. Raimi's Spiderman tried to go too big to close out some character arcs and they failed. X-Men went too big but never actually developed any of the other characters we cared about in the comics (hopefully that changes).

So I think Marvel has done a good job striking the balance. They have more resources to tell a 9-12 movie arc like this so that gives them an edge. But the characters are becoming one dimensional. RDJ doesn't play a Stark that is one dimensional. His character actual changes and evolves with time. That's why I think audiences love his take.

Thor/Cap and the other hand. One dimensional. Black Widow, just there to look hot. An intriguing back story that is never really explored (she needs a prequel more than anyone).

Marvel needs to start driving the story forward and take these characters somewhere. Put a stamp on them. Don't resort to episodic story telling. That's why Thor and Cap haven't done as well as Iron Man. It's not the same event or journey you are on with Stark, because Cap/Thor always end up in the same place and don't really go anywhere. They don't speak to a general audience like a Stark does.

 

[ThePowerCosmic]

I can legitimately say that The Winter Soldier is a better movie than Spider-Man 2. The Avengers took SM2's spot as my top CBM after a few rewatches, but Cap is so well-crafted that it immediately bumped down SM2 for me. I'm happy, been looking for a cbm to top SM2 for so long.

 

[Infinity9999x]

Yeah but I am also the guy that sees the distinction between the comic medium and film medium. You need a drive a story forward, not dwell on the cliches and gimmicks. Then you get into episodic TV stuff where the same things keep happening, and only the bad guys change.

Where is Cap going in this universe? He is lost with his life. He has no real purpose now. So now off to the next episode where he discovers his new purpose... finding good old Buck. As a result, Evans is cornered into playing a one dimensional character and we don't get that development.

This is the kind of episodic film making that will eventually stagnate the series. Raimi's Spiderman tried to go too big to close out some character arcs and they failed. X-Men went too big but never actually developed any of the other characters we cared about in the comics (hopefully that changes).

So I think Marvel has done a good job striking the balance. They have more resources to tell a 9-12 movie arc like this so that gives them an edge. But the characters are becoming one dimensional. RDJ doesn't play a Stark that is one dimensional. His character actual changes and evolves with time. That's why I think audiences love his take.

Thor/Cap and the other hand. One dimensional. Black Widow, just there to look hot. An intriguing back story that is never really explored (she needs a prequel more than anyone).

Marvel needs to start driving the story forward and take these characters somewhere. Put a stamp on them. Don't resort to episodic story telling. That's why Thor and Cap haven't done as well as Iron Man. It's not the same event or journey you are on with Stark, because Cap/Thor always end up in the same place and don't really go anywhere.

See, I actually disagree with you there. I think Tony has been more one-dimensional in three movies than Cap has in his two. Tony has essentially played out the same character arc...in every movie. "He's just a selfish guy who only thinks about himself!" is a theme that is in literally every. single. appearance. IM1=yep. IM2=yep. Avengers even reused this theme! And IM3. All the same thing. IM3 at least tried to add a new angle...before chucking it out the window in the third act.

Over his two solo films, we've seen Cap grow from a kid who just wanted to fight, become a soldier, become a man out of time, and now in this film learn that he can't just follow orders anymore and that trying to save people is more important to him than trying to save ideals.

I will agree that for a while many of the Marvel individual movies were feeling a bit stagnant to. From IM2 all the way to Thor 2, each individual movie felt very safe. Very by the book. I don't think this film was like that. It explored larger themes and shook up the universe a bit. Now, I don't think they're going to start killing off major characters because Marvel wants this world to continue indefinitely like the Bond series. And I think that's fine, it may not be what you want, but I think you'll have to realize what kind of medium this is. Bond is the closest thing film has to an ongoing character, and Marvel wants to do that with their world.

Marvel is really trying to recreate the comics in the film universe. Heck, look at how they're setting it up with film and tv! We get a weekly tv show, (like the weekly comics) and then every few years a big movie which is the equivalent of one of the huge crossover events the comic companies do every few years.

Marvel isn't looking to tell one self contained story in this world. They want to keep going. And that's fine. It's just a different way of telling stories.

 

[Whiskey Tango]

I've been dicking around all morning trying to write up a small review but I can't focus my thoughts enough do it. My head has been swimming since I left the theater last night. Holy **** this was a great movie. It somehow managed to surpass even my already massive expectations. I can't even write up a simple Pro/Con list because I honestly cannot think of one single thing I did not like.

Best Marvel Studios film. Best Marvel-branded film. Best superhero movie of all time.

Rating: A+

 

[Mr.M]

See, I actually disagree with you there. I think Tony has been more one-dimensional in three movies than Cap has in his two. Tony has essentially played out the same character arc...in every movie. "He's just a selfish guy who only thinks about himself!" is a theme that is in literally every. single. appearance. IM1=yep. IM2=yep. Avengers even reused this theme! And IM3. All the same thing. IM3 at least tried to add a new angle...before chucking it out the window in the third act.

Over his two solo films, we've seen Cap grow from a kid who just wanted to fight, become a soldier, become a man out of time, and now in this film learn that he can't just follow orders anymore and that trying to save people is more important to him than trying to save ideals.

I will agree that for a while many of the Marvel individual movies were feeling a bit stagnant to. From IM2 all the way to Thor 2, each individual movie felt very safe. Very by the book. I don't think this film was like that. It explored larger themes and shook up the universe a bit. Now, I don't think they're going to start killing off major characters because Marvel wants this world to continue indefinitely like the Bond series. And I think that's fine, it may not be what you want, but I think you'll have to realize what kind of medium this is. Bond is the closest thing film has to an ongoing character, and Marvel wants to do that with their world.

Marvel is really trying to recreate the comics in the film universe. Heck, look at how they're setting it up with film and tv! We get a weekly tv show, (like the weekly comics) and then every few years a big movie which is the equivalent of one of the huge crossover events the comic companies do every few years.

Marvel isn't looking to tell one self contained story in this world. They want to keep going. And that's fine. It's just a different way of telling stories.

Well, if you want to call AoS a success, go for it. At least they made it to the second season. That's all I know, haven't watched a second of it.

But I am looking at what has worked on TV in the last few years. Serialized dramas that actually explore characters and take them to new places. It's not simply a weekly fix where the characters are the same and do the same thing every single week. That is the formula that TV is trending towards that are actually worth an audiences investment short and long term.

Audiences got attached to Stark early, and that's probably why they stuck with him in Iron Man 2 and it was smooth sailing after that. Audiences clearly did not get that same attachment to TFA in 2011. It was met with bland or tepid response at the time. So I guess anything would have been an upgrade after that in terms of keeping us engaged.

If Marvel wants these characters to maintain a sustained impact, they need to be written more sophisticated and intelligently. So while we I got an upgrade with Cap 2 on that front, it's probably not enough to sustain anything beyond a trilogy. I think the box office bump is more the Avengers effect, so we will see how audiences react to this film in the long run.