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The Winter Soldier Captain America: The Winter Soldier - User Review Thread! - SPOILERS! - Part 2

I FINALLY got round to watching Cap 2 last night and wow, I was so impressed. I think this film definitely tops The Avengers and other Marvel films (definitely surpassing the recent IM3 and Thor 2). Thrilling plot and action throughout. Cap was a very strong character and I thought Black Widow was at her best in this movie.
I really enjoyed the score whenever the Winter Soldier was on-screen, his piece was very scary chilling and he had a great, "evil" presence about him.

I think I'd rate this 8.5/10 or maybe a solid 8/10 (I'm yet to decide). My previous score for The Avengers was 8/10 but after seeing TWS, it drops down to 7.5 as TWS is definitely a more exciting and stronger film.

Now to watch GOTG and I will have caught up with the latest Marvel films!
 
Right. Millar's Cap isn't really interesting for me. Personally, I love that movie (and 616) Cap is such a decent guy -- not racist, not sexist, not completely immersed in jingoism -- because, honestly, it makes him a hero for all, for everyone all over the world. This is exactly how I see Supes too. Both are special individuals, powerful beings, constantly striving to do the right thing.

They're both so endearing to me for that very reason.

The movie actually improved on the comics by having Cap be a skinny guy with the heart of a lion and Bucky his best friend. It makes Steve's transition from frail man to superman and Bucky's tragic disintegration to Hydra puppet all the more powerful.

To be honest I wasn't keen on any of Miller's Ultimate work. The plotlines were terrific but he made the characters - especially Black Widow and the X Men - completely unlikeable. The only thing he did I liked was turning Nick Fury into Sam Jackson.

The Ultimates also dropped the ball with what they did with Bucky - we never did get Ultimate Winter Soldier.
 
I watched this movie. Chris Evans as Captain America was great! He was perfect marvel Hero. Fantastic stunts and actions by him. Great work by camera man and by director too. No surprise to me for watch this movie again.:yay:
 
If I could vote, Id give this a 9. It was just as good, if not better than The Avengers, which shocked me as I wanst a fan of the original. It had the perfect balance of action and characterization. Chris Evans did amazing
 
I would give it a 6.5 cause it had a few good moments and the end battle was good. I was expecting a better pacing based on the rottentomatoes reviews though. Oh well.
 
I would give it a 6.5 cause it had a few good moments and the end battle was good. I was expecting a better pacing based on the rottentomatoes reviews though. Oh well.
I'd say your rating probably has more to do with you being a DC fan and preferring their stuff over Marvel's. Just hard to take your review seriously or honestly with your username.
 
Oh we absolutely have our biases. The thing is, I really dug the first Captain America film. I expected to like the sequel much more, especially from the reviews online.
 
Oh we absolutely have our biases. The thing is, I really dug the first Captain America film. I expected to like the sequel much more, especially from the reviews online.

I adore the first Captain America but think TWS is by far the better paced film. The first half is the strongest while the 2nd half of TFA especially the end scenes are a bit rushed.
 
Just finished my second viewing of The Winter Soldier. Didn't write a review last time, so here it goes.

In my opinion, this movie is two things:
1) The best Marvel film, MCU or not. ASM2 may have had the most emotional impact on me, but this impressed me with the best story.
2) In the same ballpark as BB and TDK when it comes to social commentary. In some ways, it's a spiritual sequel to TDK. TDK showcased the world's initial gut reaction to terrorism, this shows the drastic measures the world took to prevent it.

Cap often gets a bad rep due to the name, especially pre-MCU. If you're one of "those people" who assume he's just a blind propaganda caricature, watch this movie. This whole film is essentially the Russo's saying "Look, this is what Captain America is all about." Numerous times, the film shows Cap doesn't stand for any specific government but for the people and more specifically, for freedom. "I thought you were more than just a shield." "Let's see". It makes sense literally but from a thematic level, what he's REALLY saying is "I thought you were more than just a government dog." To which Cap replies with "Let's see". It's almost as if there's a subliminal message there from the Russo's right at the beginning of the film. "Think Cap stands for blind patriotism? Nope, watch and see." An answered question with a message reinforced at the end when Widow says "and you're not a SHIELD agent."

Cap's devotion to freedom and the people isn't just exemplified relative to supervillains and HYDRA, but to his own allies. He's the one who calls the shots on SHIELD going down as a whole, which ties into his character arc. Steve is at a point in life where he's unsure who the enemy is, who and what to fight for due to how different the world's become. Everything's become extremely grey-shaded compared to WWII where you had the good guy Allies and big bad Nazis. Multiple people throughout the film tell him he has to start over and build a better world, from Fury to Pierce to Natasha and even Peggy. And by the end, he takes their advice and disassembles SHIELD. Builds a better world by tearing the old one down. Speaking of SHIELD, the organization going down is a huge payoff to the overall MCU, which has portrayed it as nothing but corrupt and authoritarian from the beginning. It's also nice to see Feige and Co. not afraid to change the status quo of their universe, something the comics often can't afford to do.

When I said this was in the same ballpark as BB/TDK, I wasn't joking. The script manages to add multiple deeper meanings to simple lines of dialogue in a way only a Chris Nolan film would, something no other Marvel script has replicated to this extent. I already listed the shield dialogue exchange earlier, so I'll bring up another one: Steve watching Peggy's history video. The obvious clear-as-day message is that the world's moved on and Steve's been left behind. Anyone can figure that out. But what really adds salt to the wound is when Peggy says "Steve saved a lot of people that night in '43...including the man who would later be my husband." Those last few words signify how much Steve has lost more than anything else in the film. And all it took was a quick note from Peggy which, in the context of the history video they're watching, was completely superfluous.

Marvel often gets crap from the way they treat their villains, Loki being considered the big exception. I do think that's true, but I'm surprised at how many people never bring up their take on Modern Day HYDRA. I thought everything done with HYDRA in present day was absolutely brilliant. They really come off as an intimidating intelligent threat. They're always 5 steps ahead of everyone, have infiltrated the system through a well thought-out patient calculated plan, and still have no worries by the end due to numerous potential backup plans. This is everything the Ten Rings SHOULD have been, which Marvel blew their chance with. Every single HYDRA member is done justice from Pierce to Winter Soldier to Zola to Crossbones to the Clairvoyant (in AoS). Pierce is up there as second best MCU villain after Loki. It excites me to see what the Russo's do with Strucker, Zemo and a revamped Red Skull.

On top of commentary on the invasion of privacy and freedom, the film also offers commentary on the very nature of superheroes. To put it simple, superheroes are anti-authority by their nature. They're the ultimate fantasy people envision to whenever society - and specifically people in power - screw up. They constantly question societal/political decisions and do their best to fight for their values, even when everyone else gives up. It's no coincidence superheroes are at peak popularity whenever the world is in some crisis. That's when people fantasize about these characters the most, and it's impressive how this film can make Cap relevant in that regard despite the misconceptions that come with the name/values. DC should take notes regarding Superman. Thomas Paine once distinguished a "summer soldier" from a "winter soldier", the former being a soldier who fights for a cause whenever it's easy to and the latter being a soldier who will fight for a cause no matter what. There's no doubt in my mind the subtitle was meant to apply to Rogers as much as to Bucky.

I think the next step to go after this is have Cap become the official leader of the Avengers, especially now that he's lost a place he thought was home in SHIELD. The Avengers have always been Cap's new home in the comics since his revival, just as much as Planet Express was Philip J. Fry's new home. That's why Cap isn't just an Avenger, but THE Avenger.

So...yeah. Good movie.
New here. Outstanding post. Gave me a greater appreciation for the film in retrospect.

I noticed you didn't mention TDKR in the comic book movie social commentary tier. I thought it commented more than Batman Begins ... but I'd love to hear your thoughts.

Also, care to explain the thematic meaning of Winter Soldier v.s. a Summer Soldier? Thanks.
 
Cutting and pasting from another topic
http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=476527


Interesting article [What's in a Name? Captain America: The Winter Soldier] written political analyst William Bradley. Or maybe I think so because it mirrored my thoughts when hearing so many people question the title, from the use of the colon instead of an ampersand to how the "Winter Soldier" isn't enough in the film to warrant being in the title.

The title though works on two levels. Yes, the title refers to a nemesis of the piece but as a concept it far more fittingly describes Steve Rogers, especially in this film with the choices he makes. He is the ultimate winter soldier.

As Bradley sums up:

Will Cap be a "sunshine patriot" and summertime soldier who follows his values when it is convenient and slips away when the heavy cold weather comes? Or will he be the winter soldier who perseveres in his beliefs, no matter what he must go up against as a result?

That's the movie. Hence the title.
The two quotes which were the origin of the term and from which Brubaker drew inspiration.

These are the times that try men's souls: The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of his country; but he that stands by it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman. -- from The American Crisis by Thomas Paine, December 1776
We call this investigation the 'Winter Soldier Investigation.' The term 'Winter Soldier' is a play on words of Thomas Paine in 1776 when he spoke of the Sunshine Patriot and summertime soldiers who deserted at Valley Forge because the going was rough. We who have come here to Washington have come here because we feel we have to be winter soldiers now. We could come back to this country; we could be quiet; we could hold our silence; we could not tell what went on in Vietnam, but we feel because of what threatens this country, the fact that the crimes threaten it, not reds, and not redcoats but the crimes which we are committing that threaten it, that we have to speak out. -- Lieutenant John Kerry, USNR, representing Vietnam Veterans Against the War at the Winter Soldier hearings, April 1971

The Russos also point this point in their Director's commentary, that the title refers as much or more to Steve than Bucky.
 
Enlightening. I knew the WS title had a historical basis but hadn't seen it. Fitting too. Looks like I have to watch this again (oh no! rite?) with that in mind.
 
Enlightening. I knew the WS title had a historical basis but hadn't seen it. Fitting too. Looks like I have to watch this again (oh no! rite?) with that in mind.

I'm always happy to have an an excuse to watch this movie. :cwink:

My fave comic movie of 2014.:word:
 
X-Men didn't win the last one so I figure they'll keep trying until it does.

And now that I see who started the thread I'm doubly sure of it.




DoFP isn't a patch on WS.

Regarding Cap 3 being based on Civil War, I wonder if the conflict between Steve and Tony will be when Tony finds out Bucky might be responsible for his parents' death?
 
hail-hydra-meme-lion-king.jpg


I just had to post this
 
6.5/10. Better than the first, but not good enough for my tastes. Failed to impress me on every level.

I noticed you didn't mention TDKR in the comic book movie social commentary tier

IMHO TDKR had, not only more, but better social commentary than TWS. Actually, all recent Batman movies have, i think. I think they dig deeper in that aspect.
 
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Watched it again, as I like to give most films about a year for a rewatch after all the hype and hubbub has died down so i can give it as accurate and fair a score as i possibly can. Going in I've never been a disney marvel guy, I have my fair share of problems with the overall tonal and narrative direction of the entire mcu franchise, I also have severe problems with the first cap film...however I am a huge huge fan of Brubaker's run on cap (and Brubaker's works in general) I enjoyed the film a lot on the first viewing but it took a good rewatch or two to really make me realise how this film is heads and shoulders above others of it's kin. It takes a special film to change peoples perceptions of a decades old character, and considering I see far more people actually favouring Cap nowadays than i did back in 2012 citing TWS as the reason, it certainly displays how well the film does it's job.

Point is, I just wanted to come on here and state that The Winter Soldier has now (after 11 years) overtaken Spider-Man 2 as my favourite film that is based on a Marvel property.
 
I would give it a 6.5 cause it had a few good moments and the end battle was good. I was expecting a better pacing based on the rottentomatoes reviews though. Oh well.

To me, the end battle was the worst part of the movie. No dramatic tension. No will he stop/save his friend or save his friend moments. Just a few moments of Cap easily taking down the WS and then cap rushing to enter the codes whilst WS just stood idly by.
 
Watched it again, as I like to give most films about a year for a rewatch after all the hype and hubbub has died down so i can give it as accurate and fair a score as i possibly can. Going in I've never been a disney marvel guy, I have my fair share of problems with the overall tonal and narrative direction of the entire mcu franchise, I also have severe problems with the first cap film...however I am a huge huge fan of Brubaker's run on cap (and Brubaker's works in general) I enjoyed the film a lot on the first viewing but it took a good rewatch or two to really make me realise how this film is heads and shoulders above others of it's kin. It takes a special film to change peoples perceptions of a decades old character, and considering I see far more people actually favouring Cap nowadays than i did back in 2012 citing TWS as the reason, it certainly displays how well the film does it's job.

Point is, I just wanted to come on here and state that The Winter Soldier has now (after 11 years) overtaken Spider-Man 2 as my favourite film that is based on a Marvel property.


I couldnt agree more...this is my favorite among the Marvel movies..... the first Avengers being second....
Age of Ultron seems like it will shatter all records but this movie....by far the best Marvel movie in my opinion
 
The rewatchability is what puts the movie in the top tier of cbms. Each set piece is memorable and interesting. Fury's street battle is my current fave.
 
This is the best MCU film and up there with DoFP as my favorite superhero film. Spider-Man 2 (the Raimi one obviously) is my second favorite.
 
TWS is my favorite Marvel movie, and is up with IM1 in terms of the best MCU outings to date. It changed the Marvel movie game in terms of depth and quality, and made me love Steve and Natasha, characters who had taken a backseat in previous films. In fact, TWS made me reevaluate TFA, a movie I had, on first watch, thought was a total bore. Since TWS was released, TWS and TFA have become my most rewatched Marvel movies. 10/10
 
As I said in at the last watched thread, first time I've watched it since the cinema and ai honestly forgot how brilliant this film is. It's definitely the Marvel masterpiece, up there alongside the best in this genre. A clear 9/10 for me.
 
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