Christopher Nolan's Inception (Thread II)

[Figs]

That's an awesome post Solidus!

 

[Doctor Jones]

Solidus, please, post that on the Spider-Man reboot board. We need more people like you in there with common sense and intelligence.

 

[Kane52630]

Sorry this is so long, but I hope some of the posters on here do read it.

This is something that has just been bugging me for a long time so I have to rant about it. This whole, Nolan fans are horrible, and his movies are over-rated, and Nolan fans think he can do no wrong BS is just ridiculous. On these forums it does come down to two things linked to each other that cause this animosity. Jealousy and popularity.

I guarantee if Speilberg started his career when the Internet existed, there would be tons of people saying “Speilberg is over-rated”, or “Speilberg fans think he can do no wrong” “E.T. really was not that good, it was not as intelligent as some would suggest” You would hear all the same stuff, because he’s popular. People on forums whether they like to admit it or not (I admit it to myself all the time) we are a minority of a minority of a minority of people out there. Many think because they post on the Internet it means they are more intelligent than the “rest” of them out there. And that somehow “we” understand film/everything else better then everyone, because we hide behind their anonymous personality. It is clear with the Nolan hate that many hate it purely because it’s popular. Because now when they go up to most people and talk about Inception or TDK the person will react, they may not have gotten as much out of the film as we do, but they will interact, hence some people get mad, because now they don’t feel intelligent or superior, because the product is popular. So they turn to that person in the restaurant and say, “TDK sucked, it was over-rated” in other words the person is saying: “You’re an idiot, I’m smarter then you. “

It is clear on these boards too when you see the people that usually complain about Nolan fans, or how Nolan’s films are not that intelligent or smart, they have Marvel avatars, or another hero. The reason they do this (not all of them by the way I’ll say more later on that) but it’s because they are jealous. Now that a hero that they did not love, is now considered the king by the majority, they are pissed. I never cried and whined when Spidey was on top, I loved the films and gave it thumbs up. But so many want to tear down TDK and so forth mainly because it’s not their hero of choice. Some try to act as if it’s some other reason, which it may be to a point, but their constant berating and ripping on people who like it is just ridiculous.

Do I think people have a right to an opinion of course, we all do. I just think some people’s opinion is more hidden with another agenda. Either it be they are pissed that it is popular, so they must rip on it to make themselves feel superior. Or that they are mad that it did better than a film they liked, (which really is odd since no one really has anything invested in a given film besides emotion) so they rip on it to again make themselves feel superior or more intelligent. I think everyone deserves an opinion, but I Think some have an agenda behind it, and it may not be what they truly feel but they need to antagonize it for whatever reason.

I love the Social Network, great film, but I find it funny that many that tare praising it, it’s actually looking directly at you and pointing at you. Especially the line: “You write your snide bull s*** from a dark room because that’s what the angry do now a days.” That line is more true than most of them realize, and it is talking directly to them. People don’t realize that spending your time “hating” something is not psychologically healthy, however, on the internet it is like a past time, and usually allowed, and hidden by the “it’s my opinion” when usually there is a reason behind it, usually anger and jealousy.

Example Twilight, I don’t like the films at all, however I never have ran into the threads saying how stupid everyone is that likes it, and that I’m more intelligent because I think so. I find it funny that so many create threads on here just to hate about it, again, they do it to puff up their chest. I feel sorry because I’ve seen people like Angle Farie get ripped on for something she likes, it’s unfair. But then they must remember that doing the same to TDK fans or Nolan fans is just as unfair.

I remember myself I fell into this trap for a brief time, and it’s not something good at all. With Avatar, I did not care for the movie still do not. But I posted for about a week on there, saying how simple I saw the film as. Then I realized that I was as bad as the people that do this for other films. I was trying to make myself feel superior, because this film was insanely popular, and I did not care for it. It broke the record of everything, and it angered me. So then I took a step back and said, I just won’t post in there anymore, there are millions of super intelligent people that love this movie for whatever reason, so why should I go in and try to make myself feel superior, and say that they are not as intelligent as they think they are. It’s just rude.

It really comes down to jealousy and popularity. Most (not all) on here are big nerds, and usually (not always) we are people that are not the socially popular. So I think since High School many on here have been hardwired to hate the “popular kids” I had a friend that hated this beautiful popular girl. I had known her since she was little and we were good friends. And I asked why did he hate her? He simply could only say because she’s everything I’m not, and I don’t like that she’s popular and I’m not. One time he also talked about how he hated Metallica after 1990, because they became “mainstream” I laugh at stuff like that because that usually does not mean their music sucks, or is worse, it’s just that he was jealous that it was now popular. And he could not stand it.

That is sadly the case with the Nolan-Hate train around the internet. Many are pissed that he is popular. It was funny people praised him prior to Begins, then he made a film that was popular especially after TDK, and all of a sudden the films they praised like Memento were “over rated too”. People just don’t like anyone popular. I already foresee that if The Wolverine is good, which I’m sure it will be, many will say Darren is actually not that good, and his other films are over-rated, due to the fact that now he is popular, and many people know his work, or are now learning of his previous work.

Is there anything wrong with having a different opinion of course not I’m not saying one cannot hate Nolan’s work, or dislike it. But many do it for reasons that have nothing to do with the film, but the fans of it. Example, Mr. Earle is a known poster in the Batman forums, he does not care for Nolan’s vision that much at all, especially TDK’s. But you know what? I respect the hell out of him. And I respect his opinion. Because from what I see Earle does not try to rip on the film, to get at the fans, and to make himself seem more intelligent. What Earle does is he truly does not care for the artistic vision of BB and TDK as much and he has valid points for it. He never tries to say we are stupid because we think differently, he gives coherent and full thoughts of it, but he does not call people that like the vision of Nolan’s Bat films idiots, or unintelligent. People can have different thoughts like this.

However when people come into it and try to start something that really is for attention and to piss people off, it’s not good. It reminds me of Dave Chappelle “pleading the fif” in one of his skits. It’s like many run up to a person smack them in the face then run behind the “opinion wall” and shout from there. I’ve seen some almost try to create their opinion of certain films like TDK and say that it’s laughable, and that it’s horribly written, and has tons of plot holes, and yet somehow almost all the professionals in Hollywood praised TDK’s writings, including well known Script writing magazines, or the WGA themselves. And what they agenda is sometimes from these kind of things, is that “Hey Nolan fans or TDK fans or Inception fans are not that smart, I’m smarter, and I’m showing you this, and I’m telling you your stupid for thinking what you think.” This kind of stuff is irritating and tiring, to me a lot of this really is a subtle form of trolling. It reminds me of Ace of Knaves and his many accounts. You would talk about Paris Hilton’s sex tape and somehow he would bring up how TDK is over-rated. 99% of the time TDK is brought up anymore is someone saying it’s not that good, and it’s because they want superiority, and attention.

In conclusion I am saying that yes everyone can have their opinion. But I think some are guided by other motives to either have the opinion, or use it as an excuse to irritate, and troll the forums with immunity. I posted this because one time I almost fell in this trap and still do on occasion we are human after all. But I’m not consistent about it. I find it odd how many people that hate Nolan’s films or the Begins series and yet they spend all their time on the TDKR forums. I hate football (sorry football fans lol) so I will not spend my time in the Sports section of the hype and tell them how stupid it is. Because if I did then what I’m really trying to do is act as if I’m superior to them. I’m not. I can go and do this, but why waste the time? And that’s why I think many do have a second agenda they are trying to achieve, and it is irritation and creating security for their own insecurities in life. You don’t like something great, but spending so much time and energy hating Nolan fans or something similar…you must be doing it for some other reason than “your opinion”

Sorry for the long rant, I’ve just been like a pressure cooker with this lol.

+200 exp. points
+Level Up

 

[Solidus]

I don't know if I'm that intelligent, but thank you DJ lol. And thanks Figs. You can post it in the Spidey boards or where ever DJ I'm in support of spreading it lol.

What level am I now Kane?

 

[Kane52630]

What level am I now Kane?

lol I dont know but if there was a rep system on the hype I would give you some good rep points for that

 

[Doctor Jones]

I don't know if I'm that intelligent, but thank you DJ lol. And thanks Figs. You can post it in the Spidey boards or where ever DJ I'm in support of spreading it lol.

What level am I now Kane?

I think you should post it there. If I did, the ignorant people wouldn't care. But if you won't, I think I will. Those who choose to accept what you said are the smart people.

 

[The Squirrel]

The 2 disc blu-ray for this film is a complete rip off. No making of, no deleted scenes and no commentary? Just a documentary on dreams? I kind of want my money back. Thankfully I was still able to get it for under $20. But I really should have just got the single disc version.

 

[Fanticon]

extraction mode is like a "making of"

 

[Solidus]

Yea Nolan blu-rays/DVD's don't ever have much for extras, it makes me mad. I hope some day we get some good editions of these movies that have in depth behind the scene stuff.

 

[AndrewGilkison]

Nolan just doesn't like doing commentaries, so while disappointing it doesn't make me mad that the directors wishes are respected.

What makes me mad is the lack of quality extras for the DC animated movie DVDs. The directors and Bruce Timm have no problem doing commentaries for those, and taking part in in-depth behind the scenes stuff, yet WB home video doesn't want to spend the money for it so we get an over-priced bare-bones release instead.

 

[Anita18]

The Internet...serious business.

http://xkcd.com/386/

Truer words were never spoken.




Solidus, don't want to quote your epically long post, but I agree. I also have to add that many people feel like their favorite artists "sell out" when they become popular and lose respect for them that way. Not that popularity automatically means your work goes down the crapper, but that's how a lot of people see it. Knowing an obscure but awesome artist means that you're special/intelligent, and when they become popular, it means you're not that special/intelligent anymore because everyone else will have heard of them too. It happens time and again with musicians especially.

Well, some musicians get popular AND do go down the crapper (coughJewelcough) but it still isn't a given.

I do find it preposterous that people think artists like Tori Amos and Trent Reznor have sold out because their music doesn't sound like it did when they were in their angsty 20's. When artists start early in their lives and amass an extensive body of work, we can watch them change, and I think that's what's happening with Nolan as well. His first movies were low-budget thrillers shot guerrilla-style because that's what he could afford, and what attracted him when he was younger. Now he has the freedom to shoot big-budget movies, and he's moved on to other subjects such as fatherhood and family because guess what? He's a dad 5 times over. I think it's ridiculous that people expect their artists to simply not change, and to churn out the same stuff year after year like well-trained monkeys.

Nolan has established well enough that he won't sell out even at this level of popularity. I think time will tell whether Aronofsky will be able to harness his artistic sensibilities for Wolverine (especially with Fox), but I don't think he's automatically a sellout for choosing the project.

 

[Travesty]

Solidus, I pretty much have to disagree with you. You say it's "jealousy or popularity", and people with "hidden agendas", when it can easily come down to someones own opinion of the movie. It's not really some conspiracy that you're trying to sell. Maybe that's why some people have a problem with TDK-fans, because they think it's "end-all-be-all" of superhero movies, and any disagreement with that comes down to "jealousy"?

You then say it's alright to have opinions, but at the same time, that's why you're in a fuss, because you don't want to hear their opinions. You even give an analogy to the football forums, and how it's a waist to go in there if you don't like it, so don't go into TDK forums if you don't like TDK. Well, the thing that is wrong with that, is that someone could love football, but not like every team/player, therefore, they'll debate between people who may or may-not agree with them. It's fun to debate, even if you don't like the subject that you're debating about. In other words, people who don't like TDK, may actually love Batman, and be a fan of Batman, they just don't happen to like a certain film within the catalog of other bat-flicks. It would almost be like if I got upset when someone made fun of Forever or Returns, and chalked it up to being a "waist of time, so what's the point".

I'll admit, I post a lot in TDKR/TDK forums(I'm excited about TDKR), and yes, I don't really like TDK(it's ok), but I have no agenda, I'm not trolling, I'm just up for some debate. I'm a Bat-fan, and while I kinda like TDK, it's not even close to being my favorite bat-flick. I love Begins, and hell, I like Nolan as a director, but I don't think he's perfect, and I don't think he's as great as people make him out to be. He's good, and I like the majority of the movies he made(Inception being one of his best), so I guess what I'm trying to get at, is people can easily come to certain opinions/conclusions without it being some kind of conspiracy against Nolan.

TDK is far from being a perfect movie, so if someone has a problem with it, then debate with them. Now, I saw someone saying to post it in the Spider-Man boards(I don't go there), so I don't know if that's where you're getting heated from, cause from what I see in TDK/TDKR boards, there's MUCH more love for the movie, and anybody who disagrees is branded "the idiot", not the other way around like you're trying to sell. Anyways, that just my two-cents.

 

[redfirebird2008]

Now, I saw someone saying to post it in the Spider-Man boards (I don't go there), so I don't know if that's where you're getting heated from...

I believe the reference to the Spider-Man reboot was that there's a lot of hatred being posted in that forum against a movie that hasn't even come out yet. Solidus' post was hitting on several different ideas, but one of them was simply the fact that there is a hell of a lot of trolling out there. Why waste energy on constantly trashing something?

 

[Travesty]

Solidus' post was hitting on several different ideas, but one of them was simply the fact that there is a hell of a lot of trolling out there. Why waste energy on constantly trashing something?

Then why waste energy talking about how stupid Bat-nipples were in the Schumacher films? Why waste energy on saying you didn't like Two-Face, Riddler, Freeze, Ivy, Bane, the stories, the neon lights, the batmobiles, etc etc? I see this all the time, and I just see it as a bit of hypocrisy. So it's ok to bash something that the majority dislikes, but you can't when something is perceived in more of a positive light? Maybe it's not trolling, but peoples actual opinions.........

But again, if you're just talking about the Spidey boards, I dunno. I don't go there, so I wouldn't know.

 

[Figs]

Solidus, I pretty much have to disagree with you. You say it's "jealousy or popularity", and people with "hidden agendas", when it can easily come down to someones own opinion of the movie. It's not really some conspiracy that you're trying to sell. Maybe that's why some people have a problem with TDK-fans, because they think it's "end-all-be-all" of superhero movies, and any disagreement with that comes down to "jealousy"?

You then say it's alright to have opinions, but at the same time, that's why you're in a fuss, because you don't want to hear their opinions. You even give an analogy to the football forums, and how it's a waist to go in there if you don't like it, so don't go into TDK forums if you don't like TDK. Well, the thing that is wrong with that, is that someone could love football, but not like every team/player, therefore, they'll debate between people who may or may-not agree with them. It's fun to debate, even if you don't like the subject that you're debating about. In other words, people who don't like TDK, may actually love Batman, and be a fan of Batman, they just don't happen to like a certain film within the catalog of other bat-flicks. It would almost be like if I got upset when someone made fun of Forever or Returns, and chalked it up to being a "waist of time, so what's the point".

I'll admit, I post a lot in TDKR/TDK forums(I'm excited about TDKR), and yes, I don't really like TDK(it's ok), but I have no agenda, I'm not trolling, I'm just up for some debate. I'm a Bat-fan, and while I kinda like TDK, it's not even close to being my favorite bat-flick. I love Begins, and hell, I like Nolan as a director, but I don't think he's perfect, and I don't think he's as great as people make him out to be. He's good, and I like the majority of the movies he made(Inception being one of his best), so I guess what I'm trying to get at, is people can easily come to certain opinions/conclusions without it being some kind of conspiracy against Nolan.

TDK is far from being a perfect movie, so if someone has a problem with it, then debate with them. Now, I saw someone saying to post it in the Spider-Man boards(I don't go there), so I don't know if that's where you're getting heated from, cause from what I see in TDK/TDKR boards, there's MUCH more love for the movie, and anybody who disagrees is branded "the idiot", not the other way around like you're trying to sell. Anyways, that just my two-cents.

I think the Nolan hate was what inspired his post, not the Spider-man boards.

Solidus did mention more than once that he doesn't think all people with criticisms are just being haters or are trying to bash what is popular. He was merely talking about the ones that really lay it on thick, where the term "valid criticism" goes out the window. Not to mention, while it's ok for people who criticise a certain movie to keep up the discussion on it, there are people that he was referring to that you can easily get a vibe from that they're just there to start ****.

I don't get the football part of your post. I agree with him that if you truly do not like something, there's no real reason to go into that specific thread or forum. Now, if you take someone who liked TDK for example, but has some heavy but valid criticisms, there's no reason why they can't voice them out. It's just the ones that, as I said before, go overboard and lay it on thick as if they want to start some **** with the fans of that particular movie or subject. A good number of these types tend to lump a group of fans together, for example Nolan lovers. I consider myself a Nolan lover, but I'll be god damned if someone puts me in a group saying I worship him and think that he can do no wrong. I have criticisms myself towards some of his films, but I don't think he can do no wrong.

 

[redfirebird2008]

Then why waste energy talking about how stupid Bat-nipples were in the Schumacher films? Why waste energy on saying you didn't like Two-Face, Riddler, Freeze, Ivy, Bane, the stories, the neon lights, the batmobiles, etc etc? I see this all the time, and I just see it as a bit of hypocrisy. So it's ok to bash something that the majority dislikes, but you can't when something is perceived in more of a positive light? Maybe it's not trolling, but peoples actual opinions.........

But again, if you're just talking about the Spidey boards, I dunno. I don't go there, so I wouldn't know.

Mentioning something offhand in a different forum is a lot different than going onto a particular movie's forum and crapping all over it with negativity. I hate Transformers but you won't find me actively posting in those forums. It's a waste of energy. In the case of Schumacher's Batman movies, I derive a lot of laughter out of them so I don't really see it as wasted energy to make fun of them in an offhand way. Batman Forever is underrated though FWIW.

 

[Doctor Jones]

There are aspects of BF that are underrated (Kilmer's Wayne and Batman and O'Donnell as Grayson and Riddler's humor in areas) but it's pretty much just a guilty pleasure for me.

 

[redfirebird2008]

There are aspects of BF that are underrated (Kilmer's Wayne and Batman and O'Donnell as Grayson and Riddler's humor in areas) but it's pretty much just a guilty pleasure for me.

Definitely a guilty pleasure, but there is nothing wrong with that. Just gotta enjoy it for what it is.

 

[Solidus]

What Figs and red said are exactly my points so I'll leave it at that.

As for Batman Forever, I love it too, it is a guilty pleasure. I have the Anthology on blu-ray and watch all of them. I remember I had the biggest crush on Nicole Kidman in that film, hot momma. I still have all the glasses from McDonald's for that film.

EDIT: And honestly I love to watch B&R, me and my friends just enjoy it as a comedy, and have fun riffing it alongside the film.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

What the hell is going on????!!!!!

 

[redfirebird2008]

And honestly I love to watch B&R, me and my friends just enjoy it as a comedy, and have fun riffing it alongside the film.

B&R has the greatest drinking game ever. Take a shot every time Arnold talks about ice. t:

 

[HighFivingMF]

B&R has the greatest drinking game ever. Take a shot every time Arnold talks about ice. t:

That's how all of my friends died.

 

[Solidus]

B&R has the greatest drinking game ever. Take a shot every time Arnold talks about ice. t:

Hey everybody!!!! CHILL!!! CHILL CHILL CHILL!!!!!!!

Let's kick some ice!

Pure win. Fun film.

 

[Mrs. Sawyer]

There are aspects of BF that are underrated (Kilmer's Wayne and Batman and O'Donnell as Grayson and Riddler's humor in areas) but it's pretty much just a guilty pleasure for me.

Definitely a guilty pleasure, but there is nothing wrong with that. Just gotta enjoy it for what it is.

This. O'Donnell gets hate for Grayson but in BF I feel like he does a great job in it. It was B&R where things went wrong.

What Figs and red said are exactly my points so I'll leave it at that.

As for Batman Forever, I love it too, it is a guilty pleasure. I have the Anthology on blu-ray and watch all of them. I remember I had the biggest crush on Nicole Kidman in that film, hot momma. I still have all the glasses from McDonald's for that film.

EDIT: And honestly I love to watch B&R, me and my friends just enjoy it as a comedy, and have fun riffing it alongside the film.

Even though I don't think highly of Batman Forever, I don't think its a bad film. I'd call it the exact medium of Comic Book films.

When I see if a comic book is good or bad. I compare it Batman Forever. If I like it more, its good. If I like it less, its bad.

That's how all of my friends died.

I'm really hoping your joking or I'm gonna feel like an ass for doing this

 

[Doctor Jones]

Solidus you have the glasses too? My brother and I still have them. So damn cool. I have to remember to drink out of them more.

And Nicole Kidman in that movie....it was either her, Carrie Fisher, Kim Basginer, or Kimberly of Power Rangers that I had a first crush on. Hell, Uma Thurman in B&R might have been in there too.

That rooftop scene. So unnecessary, but at the same time, very necessary.