The Dark Knight Christopher Nolan's View On Villains

[bcgvh]

I think Riddler would be easy for Nolan to do if he wanted to, heck, I think he'd be easier than The Joker. Just lose the ridiculously flashy green outfit and the Riddler is a pretty realistic character IMO.

 

[joker27]

I never understood why nolan said penguin was a far fetched character, I think it would actually work well in nolans story especially since there getting all the weapons he could be the weapons dealer and he is smuggling it. He doesnt have to be burton version of freak,

 

[The Battousai]

I never understood why nolan said penguin was a far fetched character, I think it would actually work well in nolans story especially since there getting all the weapons he could be the weapons dealer and he is smuggling it. He doesnt have to be burton version of freak,

I think he was referring to the version by Burton - if he was given a good characterization of the Penguin as seen in the comics he would see how easy he would be to utilize as at least a side villain.

 

[Mr. Socko]

he handles the writing just fine and knows how to make it all work out well so in the end I enjoy his take.

 

[Jokeneser]

I'd actually make the Penguin a quasi-ally of Batman, rather than the main villain of the movie. Basically, Bruce would be forced to tolerate the Penguin 's activities since his night club acts as an extremely useful source information of underworld activities. He's especially tolerated because he has info on a far more sociopathic and dangerous mobster (like Two Face or Black Mask), one that Bruce needs to take out right away. Of could, that wouldn't stop Bruce from roughing him up a couple of times.


The Penguin has provided this role in the comics occasionally, I don't see why it couldn't work in Nolan's universe.

Ace, man!


About this Nolan issue: let the man do his thing, m-kay? I think any character is capable of being Nolan-ized, I just truly want to see ones never braught to the big-screen. I'm talking Black Mask, Ventriloquist, et cetera. Catwoman? You gotta be kidding me; she has been done many times over, lets not recycle it, eh? The Joker, Two-Face, and possibly Riddler are big names that are required when a Batman franchise is introduced. The Penguin and Mr. Freeze may take some thought, though.

 

[bell110]

I don't see how Freeze could work Nolan-wise without totally retooling his character.

 

[the GRIN Reaper]

Agreed.

 

[Majik1387]

I don't see how Freeze could work Nolan-wise without totally retooling his character.

All you'd have to "retool" is his costume.

 

[the GRIN Reaper]

Naw, I think the entire concept is too sci-fi like for what Nolan has established.

 

[Majik1387]

Nolan hasn't established ****.

All these excuses being used for Nolan are ridiculous.

 

[the GRIN Reaper]

It's not an excuse, it's reality. Watch BEGINS or clips of TDK ... and can you picture ANY kind of person running around with a monotone voice shooting a ridiculous "freezing gun" ???

It's absurd.

Nolan hasn't established ****? Only the most realistic, visceral and frightening Gotham City ... since the likes of Frank Miller's B:YO, B: Year 100, and TLH ...

 

[Majik1387]

It's not an excuse, it's reality. Watch BEGINS or clips of TDK ... and can you picture ANY kind of person running around with a monotone voice shooting a ridiculous "freezing gun" ???

Can I watch a man with a distinctive voice with a gun that can shoot negative temperatures to freeze things? Yes. Especially in a Batman movie when it's Mr. Freeze.

It's absurd.

Technically so is Batman

Nolan hasn't established ****? Only the most realistic, visceral and frightening Gotham City ... since the likes of Frank Miller's B:YO, B: Year 100, and TLH ...

No, Nolan hasn't established anything.
Miller's Batman is **** to me. As for him creating the most realistic and visceral city; That's good why exactly? Batman isn't in the real world. And Nolan's Gotham wasn't anymore frightening than Burton's or Schumacher's.

 

[the GRIN Reaper]

Technically so is Batman

Not really. It actually isn't at all ... especially compared to a "Mr. Freeze".

No, Nolan hasn't established anything.

Then what has he done? I'm sure a vast majority of people would disagree. Let alone people w/ taste.

Miller's Batman is **** to me.

That's nice.

I wasn't talking about characterization, I was talking about setting. Which when placing Mr. Freeze in a similar world, would stick out like a sore thumb and take you directly out of the story.

BTW, I didn't just mention Miller's work. Hate those other artists, as well?

As for him creating the most realistic and visceral city; That's good why exactly?

Do I really need to explain?

Because why would there be a need for a Batman if he didn't live in the most disgusting, corrupt, and seedy city imaginable? Also, by making it a realistic threatning setting, it's relatable to an audience so the dangers within the story feel legitimate, so there is actual concern for the protagonist. It actually feels as if the odds are stacked against the hero, thus a higher feeling of reward when the protagonist triumphs.

Batman isn't in the real world.

Sure he is ... and all the best Batman stories have him smack right dab in the most recognizable of worlds.

And Nolan's Gotham wasn't anymore frightening than Burton's or Schumacher's.

Surely it is ...

Shumacher and Burton's Gotham are overdone. One way or the other. One trying to be too frightening, the other, not at all.

Nolan's Gotham is reality, but on steroids. Tell me this, do you live in a major city? If you do ... go to lets say ... Chinatown past 11:30 at night. When all the street trash and crime is thrown up from the underground onto the street. Surrounded by dimly lighted claustrophobic architexture. Then tell me, if you're frightened or not.

Nolan's Gotham replicates that feeling. Burton and Shumacher's Gotham are overly fantastical. No audience member would ever encounter living or being in such a fantasy land. Nolan's Gotham has real threat, through recognizable visuals, feels, and context.

Like Burton's Gotham is German Expressionism. It's supposed to be hell on earth, but where do the people live that supress the people of Gotham? The rich corrupt have to have decedant places to live and bask in the wealth they have starved from their people. We get that in Nolan's Gotham. Which then in terms balances out and makes the actual crime infested slums and un-inhabitable parts of Gotham even more frightening, because we see the difference within context.

And with a realistic setting, threats from the obstacles our beloved characters face (Jim Gordon, Alfred, Bruce Wayne, Harvey Dent, etc.) feel all the more real, thus making the audience more invested in the story.

 

[Mr. Socko]

Blah blah blah, "teh realism is awesome, now here's a list of characters that I say will fit in his universe and heres ones that won't"

That's all I heard, that's all I hear... every day, my friend.

 

[the GRIN Reaper]

What's neccessarily wrong with that? There are some characters that just don't fit a particular vision. Don't get mad. The vision out weighs any individual character.

 

[ND Irish]

the realism is really overrated, were talking about a movie w/ a guy dressed as a bat. i dont care if its real or not, as long as its not campy and ridiculous. all i want is a good movie oh, and no Robin....at all.

 

[Eggyman]

Blah blah blah, "teh realism is awesome, now here's a list of characters that I say will fit in his universe and heres ones that won't"

That's all I heard, that's all I hear... every day, my friend.

Agreed. I never realised that there are so many ways to say the same thing

 

[bell110]

Mr. Freeze's schtick is that he can not live outside of below freezing temperatures. That's impossible in the real world. Now the story about his wife would be real, and I guess a gun that shoots liquid nitrogen is in the realm of possiblity, but living in below freezing temperatures is not. And if they changed that part of his character, imagine the fan reaction. It would be on par with the perma-white and organic web-shooter complaints.

 

[Majik1387]

Mr. Freeze's schtick is that he can not live outside of below freezing temperatures. That's impossible in the real world. Now the story about his wife would be real, and I guess a gun that shoots liquid nitrogen is in the realm of possiblity, but living in below freezing temperatures is not. And if they changed that part of his character, imagine the fan reaction. It would be on par with the perma-white and organic web-shooter complaints.

That's not his only 'schtick' and it's not impossible in the real world, same for the perm-white. The organic web shooters is a total different matter.

 

[Eggyman]

That's not his only 'schtick' and it's not impossible in the real world, same for the perm-white. The organic web shooters is a total different matter.

Agreed!

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Again, we are discussing realism. If there's one thing that'll kill this franchise, it's all this faith in realism. This is The God-damned Batman, not a f---ing soap opera. They've already gone most of the way there by having a grown man in a rubber suit and pointy ears, hiding in the shadows and chillin' in his cave; why not go the extra mile, eh?

Creating a real world for the characters to live in is important, but the characters that fill it SHOULD be fantastical. It's what they were made for.

It seems arse over tit to me, anyway. You should really let the characters apply the realism by the parameters that there characteristics provide. Not the other way around. That just seems silly and limiting and shallow minded.

 

[bell110]

That's not his only 'schtick' and it's not impossible in the real world, same for the perm-white. The organic web shooters is a total different matter.

How is it possible?

 

[Majik1387]

How is it possible?

The same way some people can't be exposed sunlight for too long, just call it a medical condition, which is not hard to believe. I'd look for it right now but I'm tired.
As for the perma-white, bleached skin accident gone terribly wrong.

 

[Matt.S99]

The same way some people can't be exposed sunlight for too long, just call it a medical condition, which is not hard to believe. I'd look for it right now but I'm tired.
As for the perma-white, bleached skin accident gone terribly wrong.

or in other works, Micheal Jackson.

 

[bell110]

The same way some people can't be exposed sunlight for too long, just call it a medical condition, which is not hard to believe. I'd look for it right now but I'm tired.
As for the perma-white, bleached skin accident gone terribly wrong.

That sunlight condition is completely different. As for the perma-white, I was only comparing how the fans would react. They freaked when they found out he just wore makeup. Imagine how they would react if Mr. Freeze didn't have to live in freezing conditions to survive.

 

[Anita18]

Because why would there be a need for a Batman if he didn't live in the most disgusting, corrupt, and seedy city imaginable? Also, by making it a realistic threatning setting, it's relatable to an audience so the dangers within the story feel legitimate, so there is actual concern for the protagonist. It actually feels as if the odds are stacked against the hero, thus a higher feeling of reward when the protagonist triumphs.

Nolan's Gotham is reality, but on steroids. Tell me this, do you live in a major city? If you do ... go to lets say ... Chinatown past 11:30 at night. When all the street trash and crime is thrown up from the underground onto the street. Surrounded by dimly lighted claustrophobic architexture. Then tell me, if you're frightened or not.

Completely agree. Batman would not exist at the same level he does if he were not surrounded by utter despair. He is the sole source of hope for the city, and that's what makes him relevant, at least to me.

I read an interview with cinematographer Wally Pfister where he said the older Batman movies had Batman as a fantastical character set in a fantastical world, but they decided to put a fantastical character in a recognizable, familiar world, and study the contrasts. It's not better or worse than the other visions, but simply a different vantage point. That's what they mean by "realism."

I think Penguin would work in Nolan's world, but I'm not terribly familiar with the character either. Maybe Nolan just doesn't dig him, who knows.