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This is a continuation thread, the old thread is [split]521163[/split]
Oh man, that new GOTG trailer was gold!
It was already my number 1 anticipated movie for next year, that has become the case even more now.
So if he says nothing, he's escalating because he wants an appearance from Hulk and if he (rightly) tells Tony to cut the crap, he's escalating with Tony.
The man can't win. Everyone has a little bit of something in their psychological makeup or they wouldn't be able to understand others who have those traits more central to their makeup. I think, at his core, Steve is a guy who wants to do well and could learn to live in peace. It would be interesting to hear what Chris thinks.
TalismanRing said:I don't buy that nor your perception on what the movies do or don't tell us about his character. Of course Steve Rogers is worthy. He's a hero. The movies show us this over and over again.
The conversation with Steve and Tony perfectly mirrors the later one between Peter and Tony.
"When you can do the things I can, and bad things happen because you don't, it's on you."
It's the old with great power comes responsibility. Though Steve felt responsibility to help and protect before he had power. If he could help by throwing himself on a grenade he did so. That's not him escalating or creating conflict.
Rescuing Bucky and the other POWs escalated conflict and cost people around him? Fighting in WWII and defeating the Red Skull escalated conflict? Taking down a plane and sacrificing his life to spare the East Coast from devastation was an escalation of conflict? Stopping hellicarriers from exterminating 20 million people was escalation of conflict? Laying down his shield and letting his brainwashed psycho friend beat him to a pulp in order to try and save him was an escalation of conflict? Rescuing people from Sokovia and deciding he'd be the last to leave that rock was an escalation? Trying to stop Crossbones from getting a biological weapon was an escalation of conflict? Stopping the Kill squad and Black Panther from murdering Bucky while making sure no one was killed in the process was an escalation? Stopping Tony from murdering Bucky by disabling Tony's suit was an escalation? At the airport Steve was the one who wanted to talk but Tony wouldn't listen except to point out Steve was emotionally compromised when it was Tony on the emotional edge the entire movie.
Steve does what has to be done, often with great sacrifice to himself. To believe that he costs those around him as opposed to saving everyone he possibly can is mind boggling to me. As he told Wanda, they can't save everyone but if they don't try no one gets saved. Steve is never going to just stand by, that's not being a warmonger or having a dark side.
That's what MoS and BvS did. These characters also aim to be people we're supposed to look up to, but without personalities that are interesting, and by interesting, I do mean that are full enough to have their strong points also be their weak points, like every real human being on the planet. This is why those characters remain less compelling, not because they're not willing to throw themselves on a grenade to save others, or accept great responsibility with their power, but because their motivations cut off and disappear as soon as it will cause a problem for the plot, whereas with a Marvel film, all the downsides of its very human characters, including Steve Rogers, often drive the conflict.
The two main superheroes in BvS are both unlikable to me. Superman just mopes about having to save people, Batman is a murderer who isn't even willing to hear Superman out...
Wonder Woman might be more redeemable, but we'll see.
All of the MCU heroes are so likeable and fully of joy.
Hahaha damn what show is that from?
Superman does not mope about having to save people. The only time Superman mopes in the entire film is when he wasn't able to save people and believes his attempts to save people are doing more harm than good. What Superman does do throughout the film is cheer his girlfriend up, investigate Batman, and save people. He smiles and embraces his fate when he attacks Doomsday for the last time. He fully accepts his role as humanity's savior just moments before his death.
Likability is such an odd concept for me. When I read or watch fiction, likability isn't something I care about. I care about whether a character is interesting. I care if a character grows and changes. Batman, to me, is a fascinating character in BvS. I don't like him because he's particularly likable; I like him because he's interesting. I like him because the film doesn't celebrate his cruelty or defend his unwillingness to listen.
The MCU heroes, to me, aren't that interesting. I don't dislike them, but I also don't care about them. What seems like joy to you mostly just comes off as either simplicity or stale humor. Their worst sin is that they are boring.
Gilmore girls. They also take a shot at BvS mere minutes before this scene.
So the Gilmore Girls making fun of the MCU is funny but the comics making fun of BvS isn't?
Dr. Strange was more heroic than Superman has been in a long time.
The dude willingly subjected himself to years, if not decades or eons, of constant painful death to save the planet.
I won't be forgetting that anytime soon.
So the Gilmore Girls making fun of the MCU is funny but the comics making fun of BvS isn't?
The dude willingly subjected himself to years, if not decades or eons, of constant painful death to save the planet.
So the Gilmore Girls making fun of the MCU is funny but the comics making fun of BvS isn't?