Cinematic Civil War:MCU vs DCCU - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 38

[JeetKuneDo]

I agree and disagree. If you're desperate to see some good Superman (the others are mostly okay, too) then go do it. If you're a film fan who's interested in just how weirdly made this movie is, also go do it.

That's why I'm going. Heard good rumors about Supes so that gets me there.

So do you guys think the DC films have done anything unrepairable? I can try to forget Batman trying to kill Superman and killing goons. Joker can easily come back with a different look and personality. The way I see it, after Justice League, there's not much reason to not be excited or hopeful about the future DC films.

We might still end up with two great cinematic universes.

It can bounce back in a hurry. We've seen it happen many times.

DCU put out two horrible movies and it just took one to get everyone excited again (WW). Sony put out 3 bad Spidey movies in a row and now it's all good after just one good Spidey movie (SM:H). WB made a couple of really bad Batman movies and then everything was fine with just one good one (BB).

So the audience is always there waiting to pounce on a good movie. If Fox made a really good FF movie that would put FF back in good standing. (As if Fox could do that)

I don't get it. He is self aware of how silly superheroes can be. Yet he still makes super po faced, serious superhero movies.

Great point. That is weird. He should watch Thor 3 and see how much fun a SH movie can be....and it's not a bad thing.

 

[Lencho01]

I have to say, this is pretty damn fascinating.

Like after HP and LOTR, you would think WB would have taken better care to ensure that their DC films were better received. It’s fine to be different from the MCU, but it also needs to be good. Not only did they have the comics at their disposal, they had the DCAU and the YJU as fine possibilities, but I’m sure no one at WB has ever looked at them.

No real set vision, always reactionary to what people have said, not even listening to THE comics guy they had on hand (who even started out working with Feige under Donner), etc. Now, things are in such a weird flux. Still holding out hope for that Cyborg solo film, though...

I wish someone would write a book or make a documentary, but I’m sure the chances of it happening and having enough info are low.

 

[Kane52630]

Well Alan Horn left WB after 2012 and nothing has been the same since.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

There's a chance Jake Gyllenhaal is the next Batman. Not someone you immediately think of when picturing Bruce Wayne. But neither was Keaton. I think it's fascinating and exciting.

 

[Lencho01]

Well Alan Horn left WB after 2012 and nothing has been the same since.

That’s true. Not that it’s all on him, but you see how well Disney was doing when they got him.

I do think he would have had WB use a more steady hand in all this. Like no announcements of a bunch of films that people would question from the get-go. Maybe the Big Three (or at least just Superman and Wonder Woman) getting TDKT treatments.

 

[I Am The Knight]

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/amp/heat-vision/justice-league-dc-hopes-land-a-punch-marvel-1058409

Some choice quotes:

"If a B character from Marvel shut downs and outperforms the A team from DC, that’s an embarrassment," a Justice League insider tells The Hollywood Reporter, adding, "It’s going to be a stressful weekend for some [Warners]?execs."

Friendly rivalry has been in the companies' DNA since the 1960s, when Marvel's Stan Lee would insert jabs at DC into his comics, characterizing the competitor as square and Marvel as the hip underdogs. DC would respond by ribbing Lee as a grandstanding self-promoter.

Things went from friendly to ugly in the 2000s, culminating with a now-legendary 2002 interview in which then-Marvel editor in chief Joe Quesada mocked DC for not having more success on the big-screen, despite owning characters as popular as Batman and Superman: "That’s like being a porn star with the biggest dick and you can’t get it up."

Chris Begley, founder of the Batman-focused fan site Batman-News, notes that traffic surges around controversial issues, such as rumors of Ben Affleck leaving his role as Batman, with readers swarming to condemn his site for even posting news that would suggest such a thing. "Some hardcore DC fans only want to read 'good news,'" he says.

That's gotta burn the DCFU's hardcores' asses

 

[Lencho01]

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/amp/heat-vision/justice-league-dc-hopes-land-a-punch-marvel-1058409

It’s hilarious that there’s better hope for Aquaman alone than the JL combined. That’s where we’re at, people. Wow.

 

[Kane52630]

Man that is some poor management when Aquaman is coming out end of next year.

 

[honestbharani]

I have to say, this is pretty damn fascinating.

Like after HP and LOTR, you would think WB would have taken better care to ensure that their DC films were better received. It’s fine to be different from the MCU, but it also needs to be good. Not only did they have the comics at their disposal, they had the DCAU and the YJU as fine possibilities, but I’m sure no one at WB has ever looked at them.

No real set vision, always reactionary to what people have said, not even listening to THE comics guy they had on hand (who even started out working with Feige under Donner), etc. Now, things are in such a weird flux. Still holding out hope for that Cyborg solo film, though...

I wish someone would write a book or make a documentary, but I’m sure the chances of it happening and having enough info are low.

Look, if there is anything at all to be learned from MCU's success, (and no matter what the DC fanboys here think, it IS an unequivocal success from any stand point and are just plain better "received" movies across the board), it is that you need people with passion who understand the source material enough and respect the genre itself (again, unlike Zack Snyder), not just characters in some stupid us Vs them game, while also being bold enough to adapt the stories in a way that makes sense as a feature film to be released worldwide. It starts from finding directors with a little less ego, really.

 

[Erzengel]

After watching the documentary about the Death of Superman Lives, how I think of WB can be summarized by Jon Peters saying, "Yeah, Superman needs polar bears guarding the Fortress of Solitude."

 

[I Am The Knight]

The horror...

 

[Sithborg]

After watching the documentary about the Death of Superman Lives, how I think of WB can be summarized by Jon Peters saying, "Yeah, Superman needs polar bears guarding the Fortress of Solitude."

That documentary actually kind of made me want to see it made. Giant spider and all.

 

[Flint Marko]

I have to say, this is pretty damn fascinating.

Like after HP and LOTR, you would think WB would have taken better care to ensure that their DC films were better received. It’s fine to be different from the MCU, but it also needs to be good. Not only did they have the comics at their disposal, they had the DCAU and the YJU as fine possibilities, but I’m sure no one at WB has ever looked at them.

No real set vision, always reactionary to what people have said, not even listening to THE comics guy they had on hand (who even started out working with Feige under Donner), etc. Now, things are in such a weird flux. Still holding out hope for that Cyborg solo film, though...

I wish someone would write a book or make a documentary, but I’m sure the chances of it happening and having enough info are low.

The problem is simple: WB trusted Zack Snyder in ways that have never made sense. For whatever reason they have continually given him hundreds upon hundreds of millions along with the keys to the DC kingdom when it should have been clear after MoS that he was not the guy.

Zack Snyder, hot off the failure of Sucker Punch, gets the Superman gig and then comes in under expectations. Instead of rethinking their approach they then hand him three more hugely expensive movies on a silver platter. Someone please explain the logic behind this to me.

That's why they're in the mess they're currently in. JL is about to disappoint across the board because WB has invested over a billion dollars and several years into a universe that half of the fanbase has rejected from day one.

 

[DACrowe]

This alone puts AOU over Apocalypse.

This is getting distracted from my main point about Justice League.

They are both mediocre movies. And the only reason I might consider AOU slightly stronger is no CGI redundancy but the party scene between the team members, which were nice human character moments in an otherwise soulless product. But I think AOU's third act is just as lousy as XMA if not more so, because I actually liked the Phoenix at least, whereas as someone who never read Vision comics, I had no idea what that was about and the movie failed to make me care past its fan service. I also thought the death of Quicksilver landed with as much of a thud as Magneto's "heroic" turn.

ANYWAY... to get back to Justice League. All three of those are what I would call "mediocre." They are not good movies like The Avengers, XFC, DOFP, Civil War, guardians, or X2. They are middle-lower tier of the superhero team movies. Still above the truly wretched--X-Men: The Last Stand and the Fantastic Four movies--but still mediocre.

That was my point and I stick to it.

 

[Ivan Drago]

I watched Apocalypse recently, and I dislike it even more. I think it's the worst x-men film. Weirdly enough, I think wolverine origins is pretty fun. Dumb, but fun.

 

[Flint Marko]

Whatever happens next, I just hope we don't have to sit through more and more Batman spin-offs. Please. I'm interested in the next Batman film solely because of Matt Reeves but I really don't care to see any more Bat-films.

Give me WW 2. Give me a Matthew Vaughn Superman. Give me a proper Green Lantern film. Give me the Flash, and not just as a lame excuse to reboot your universe.

Please, WB, leave your comfort zone.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

I haven't seen Justice League (and won't until it comes on TV), but I agree that there are similarities between Apocalypse and AoU (my pick for the weakest MCU film).

I would put AoU above Apocalypse though, for two main reasons:

1. AoU has Iron Man and Captain America who while not at their best in AoU are still far more compelling characters than anything I saw in Apocalypse. Xavier, who was great in DOFP, does nothing here. I liked Magneto and Quicksilver and they were easily the best part of the movie, but they aren't given enough to do either. Not an issue with Tony Stark.
2. The action and visuals in AoU are really good. In Apocalypse they aren't, which is a big problem when the film is primarily a popcorn explosion-fest action film.

 

[First Avenger]

I don't get how Age of Ultron can be put into the same sentence with Apocalypse.

I agree with this 100%. One of my favourites in the genre actually. Hot take I know.

 

[The Endless]

Age of Ultron has some big flaws. But it's also a pretty smart movie overall. The thematics are interesting, has some great character moments and the action is top notch.

Anyway... I've just read that Fox are making a Multiple Man movie... with James Franco. WTF!? That could be beyond awesome.

 

[BaelaTargaryen]

JL RT score is finally visible on RT. It's 40% and 5.2/10 with 136 reviews.

 

[StarLord]

Anyway... I've just read that Fox are making a Multiple Man movie... with James Franco. WTF!? That could be beyond awesome.

I like the sound of it too.

Hopefully it's more in line with Logan/Deadpool/New Mutants rather than the main series.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

Apocalypse looks like an early 00 superhero film. Amazing that Singer's aesthetic did not evolve at all. Beast jumping around looked no better than Toad leaping around in X-men.

 

[StarLord]

Apocalypse looks like an early 00 superhero film. Amazing that Singer's aesthetic did not evolve at all. Beast jumping around looked no better than Toad leaping around in X-men.

The movie came across as trying too hard to make everyone look ''right'' and the rest didn't matter.

 

[Smilodon]

Here’s to hoping Franco uses MM as a backdoor X-Factor film or something. Could be the right actor to get the ball rolling on that one.

 

[honestbharani]

The problem is simple: WB trusted Zack Snyder in ways that have never made sense. For whatever reason they have continually given him hundreds upon hundreds of millions along with the keys to the DC kingdom when it should have been clear after MoS that he was not the guy.

Zack Snyder, hot off the failure of Sucker Punch, gets the Superman gig and then comes in under expectations. Instead of rethinking their approach they then hand him three more hugely expensive movies on a silver platter. Someone please explain the logic behind this to me.

That's why they're in the mess they're currently in. JL is about to disappoint across the board because WB has invested over a billion dollars and several years into a universe that half of the fanbase has rejected from day one.

It also does not help that Snyder seems to be jealous or driven or emotionally affected in some way by the success of the MCU. There were his well publicized baseless juvenile idiotic jibes about Marvel characters and movies, and then he saw them succeed more and more and more and its like his ego got the better of him as a film maker and he was driven more and more to prove that he can somehow do "better and more different" movies in the genre. And this, at the expense and to the detriment of some of the most popular and iconic fictional characters across the world and the foundation being set up for its very existence. This is where I was going with the "get directors with less ego" in my earlier post. They need someone who will realize that making a good movie that most people can enjoy has absolutely nothing to do with what some other movies and/or studios are doing, at all.