Cinematic Civil War:MCU vs DCCU - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 39

[OutOfBoose]

I still can't believe how badly WB handled the DCEU outside of WW.

Marvel hammered them, and in their desperation they turned to a man they didn't fully understand.

lol

 

[Visualiza]

I still can't believe how badly WB handled the DCEU outside of WW.

Marvel hammered them, and in their desperation they turned to a man they didn't fully understand.

Well played. Really though, they've known who they were dealing with for quite some time now. Snyder's best film is Sucker Punch, and it was an abject failure on every level. He should've gotten the boot after that. Not sure what anyone at WB was thinking in giving him so many blank checks since then. Maybe it's because he's such a nice guy.

 

[jmc]

A vision they subsequently ignored in Wonder Woman.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

It does reflect well on Snyder. You can't simply ignore his involvment in the process. So many people complained about Gal as Wonder Woman, but after BvS they were already praising her. It was his vision. He didn't direct Wonder Woman, but you can't deny the man his credit for having vision and being able to bring some characters to life in a nice way. Wonder Woman wouldn't exist without Snyder. Maybe some other Wonder Woman movie would exist. Maybe something even better. Or maybe not. But the fact is that THIS Wonder Woman movie wouldn't exist without Snyder, even if Patty was directing it. You take Snyder out of the game, and you don't get the Wonder Woman movie you just saw. So, how is he not entitled to some credit?

None of this changes the fact that most of his movies have serious problems. I'm simply pointing out facts, and they don't change whatever bad decisions he might have made.

Seeing Gal in WW as opposed to BvS and JL shows exactly why Snyder doesn't deserve one ounce of credit.

 

[Iceman]

Seeing Gal in WW as opposed to BvS and JL shows exactly why Snyder doesn't deserve one ounce of credit.

Patty admitted she wouldn't have cast Gal so there's your ounce.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Patty admitted she wouldn't have cast Gal so there's your ounce.

Patty is a kind person.

 

[Iceman]

Patty is a kind person.

So is Zack. Noone else would have been rewarded with 3 huge films for MoS. t:

Anyway noone would have cast Gal. She was a model with little experience and not much to suggest she could pull it off. We had casting threads going on for years and I don't remember her being mentioned (plus a huge backlash when she was cast). I think he deserves his ounce (that's not a lot) of credit, without acknowledging the ounce the criticisms don't hold the same credibility.

 

[Tony Stark]

In terms of actual filming, I haven't found any evidence of Snyder's active help. Yes, she was heavily influenced, just like Nolan was heavily influenced by Mann when he made TDK. That doesn't mean WW isn't her film and TDK Nolan's.

Just saying the whole fighting style was 100% Zach Snyder style, and IMO it was the worst thing about Wonder Woman. Fortunately for us none of the dialogue, editing and story telling was in his style.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Gal received mostly praise for her appearence in BvS. Snyder's vision, Snyder's concept, Snyder's casting choice, that many people disagreed with before, but after BvS ate their words. Patty did a good job with the character, but like i said, Wonder Woman as we saw it wouldn't exist without Snyder, so he deserves credit by default. You not liking him doesn't change the fact that she was brought in to work on a project that already had other people's finger in it. You don't get to rewrite history. What happened is what happened, like it or not. And what happened was that this Wonder Woman wasn't a Patty's concept from scratch. It's partially her vision, but not entirely her vision.

Gal got praise for WW because of how awful the rest of the film is. Where is this praise for her in JL after seeing her be amazing in WW? Yeah, exactly. The vision of the character in WW is by far the iconic take and shares nothing with Snyder's.

Also have to love its "partially" her vision. You know is partially Snyder's vision? His DCEU movies, because no one trusted him after even the Nolans couldn't fix MoS for him completely. They ended up slicing and dicing BvS and JL and even bringing in another director.

 

[jmc]

Patty Jenkins managed to get more out of Gal than what Snyder did. She was wooden in BvS, she was far better in WW.

 

[Tony Stark]

Patty Jenkins managed to get more out of Gal than what Snyder did. She was wooden in BvS, she was far better in WW.

then back to being wooden in Justice League.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

I can make fun of movies without making fun of the artist(s) in charge, like we make fun of Joel Schumacher's Batman, really bad movies directed by a fine director.

So I get that reviews don't smash the clash in styles between Snyder and Whedon, it seems there isn't much of a noticeable clash, and that is a pleasant thing.

 

[Visualiza]

then back to being wooden in Justice League.

Kinda surprised me but Whedon didn't help much in this regard either. [BLACKOUT]Kalel NO![/BLACKOUT] sounded like she was addressing a misbehaving puppy rather than another character. Jenkins has definitely shown that she works well with Gadot.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

So is Zack. Noone else would have been rewarded with 3 huge films for MoS. t:

Anyway noone would have cast Gal. She was a model with little experience and not much to suggest she could pull it off. We had casting threads going on for years and I don't remember her being mentioned (plus a huge backlash when she was cast). I think he deserves his ounce (that's not a lot) of credit, without acknowledging the ounce the criticisms don't hold the same credibility.

Also if we are going to get serious for a moment, Patty probably would have cast someone plenty good enough. And I say this while thinking Gal is great in the role, after not really caring for her all that much in BvS. But Patty clearly knows how to bring it out of Gal in a way Snyder doesn't.

 

[jmc]

then back to being wooden in Justice League.

To be fair no-one really had any material to work with in JL, so everyone comes across more or less equally ‘meh’.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Well, i've seen a lot of people saying they loved Wonder Woman in both BvS and JL, so there is that. Your opinion is your opinion, and nothing more. I see that you often overrate your opinions, but with me that ***** ain't gonna fly.

I understand that the facts bother you. The fact that Snyder did have a strong influence in this Wonder Woman, and with him, the film you saw wouldn't exist. It's a fact. I mean, what you want from me? To change reality and wrap it up to you as a christmas present?

Yes, that is exactly what I am doing. Warping reality. The one using guess work as his basis for "facts". If Snyder was so influential, why did Patty have to fight for No Man's Land?

 

[Iceman]

Also if we are going to get serious for a moment, Patty probably would have cast someone plenty good enough. And I say this while thinking Gal is great in the role, after not really caring for her all that much in BvS. But Patty clearly knows how to bring it out of Gal in a way Snyder doesn't.

Agreed that Patty would have got someone good in regardless yeah, probably someone the fanbase would have been more immediately accepting of too. I liked Gal in BvS though and I wasn't really expecting to.

 

[Iceman]

Yes, that is exactly what I am doing. Warping reality. The one using guess work as his basis for "facts". If Snyder was so influential, why did Patty have to fight for No Man's Land?

I just don't know what's wrong with WB's official interference department. I can understand them getting concerned with how their films are going but surely there are more skilled interveners! Who watches a cut of WW and thinks yeah, that's the scene that needs to go.

 

[jmc]

Kinda surprised me but Whedon didn't help much in this regard either. [BLACKOUT]Kalel NO![/BLACKOUT] sounded like she was addressing a misbehaving puppy rather than another character. Jenkins has definitely shown that she works well with Gadot.

Jenkins managed to work around Gal acting limitation, using Gal’s natural charm to build a character around. There’s no character work for her in JL.

 

[Visualiza]

Sounds about right.

 

[Man in the Suit]

It was actually Patty Jenkins' crew in England, not WB, that didn't get the No Man's Land scene. At least that's what she said when she clarified it...

 

[Boy Scout]

Well played. Really though, they've known who they were dealing with for quite some time now. Snyder's best film is Sucker Punch, and it was an abject failure on every level. He should've gotten the boot after that. Not sure what anyone at WB was thinking in giving him so many blank checks since then. Maybe it's because he's such a nice guy.

They probably wouldn't have thought of him if Nolan hadn't suggested him. A recommendation from Christopher Nolan can get you far in Hollywood.

 

[Flemm]

Giving the entire credit for the movie to Chirs Pine, calling it basic and generic while they praise over such movies with male leads, dismissing the box office success by claiming it only did so because it is rare, saying it didn't do well overseas after making 400m there, off the back of the disasters that were BvS and SS. People can worship Feige who hasn't actually directed a movie, but Patty gets no credit.

Yeah, but I think that is partly a DC vs. Marvel thing, rather than a sexist thing. That's all I'm saying.

If a Marvel studios film had a 3.9x domestic multiplier, in addition to the critical reception, for example, many fans would not be able to stop themselves from drooling all over their keyboards while raving about the genius of everyone involved.

If Captain Marvel has a similar reception, or anything close, I doubt we will see the same sort of arguments intended to downplay the film's success.

Or, if we do see those arguments, they won't be from the same fans.

I'm not saying, of course, that there isn't a sexist element to some of it. But the Marvel/DC thing is another element.

 

[Tony Stark]

To be fair no-one really had any material to work with in JL, so everyone comes across more or less equally ‘meh’.

I actually liked Cyborg. Was it anything special? Probably not, but I thought he did a good job with the character.

Also ironically I thought it was Cavil's best performance as Superman.

 

[ludovica]

There's also the fact that those are all true observations.
Should WW2 be a competently made movie and clearly underperform respective to WW1, the critical fans will be proven right.
I'm willing to wait.

I nonetheless hope WW2 to be a great movie and perform great.
I doubt it, but I would prefer that to being proven right.