Cinematic Civil War:MCU vs DCCU - Part 7

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[AVEITWITHJAMON]

How about the X-Men?
Their movie didn't come out long after their popular cartoon ended.

Sorry, I am not exactly sure of the point you are making here. X-Men show up in costume pretty early in the movie and they are also not as kid friendly as the MCU movies. So I am not sure they apply to the conversation?

For the record though, I think in general the X-Men movies, or the good ones at least, strike the best balance between light and dark moments, as well as humour and drama. It's probably why there are 2 X-Men movies in my all time top 5 CBMS.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

Sorry, I am not exactly sure of the point you are making here. X-Men show up in costume pretty early in the movie and they are also not as kid friendly as the MCU movies. So I am not sure they apply to the conversation?

Not their usual comicbook costumes, at least not before Apocalypse.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Not their usual comicbook costumes, at least not before Apocalypse.

But still costumes none the less. Plus the movie wasn't an origin, the X-Men were already established. But, again, things were different when X-Men came out. In 1999, when X-Men began production, CBMs were considered a joke and campy, poor movies, that's why Singer did away with the colourful costumes and made the movie more serious and adult orientated.

Again I am not sure what this has to with the original point though.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

In defense of Singer, most of the traditional X-Men costumes from the comics are hideous.

 

[Erzengel]

I always thought that the costumes were minor issues at best. Less than the horrible continuity especially between the OT and PT.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

But still costumes none the less. Plus the movie wasn't an origin, the X-Men were already established. But, again, things were different when X-Men came out. In 1999, when X-Men began production, CBMs were considered a joke and campy, poor movies, that's why Singer did away with the colourful costumes and made the movie more serious and adult orientated.

Again I am not sure what this has to with the original point though.

You mentioned kids loving to see the costume on screen.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

In defense of Singer, most of the traditional X-Men costumes from the comics are hideous.

Yeah would have been in live action, especially with how CBMs were viewed at the time.

You mentioned kids loving to see the costume on screen.

No that wasn't my point. I said the hero not appearing as the actual hero they went to see until an hour into the movie is not a kid friendly move in a movie. Ang Lee's Hulk was largely criticised for this when it was released as apparently kids and even teenagers got bored of the movie before even seeing the hero himself. Think we got some wires crossed there.

 

[TeeKay]

And as I have already said, ballsy/risky was the wrong word to use at the time. Controversial would be more apt. I stand by my statement that they are things Marvel would never put in their movies though due to the violence of both. Marvel caters more to family's and wouldn't put stuff like that in their movies. It's a reason there are people who label their movies as 'safe.'

And we've seen backlash due to what Snyder and WB are doing. They're essentially running the DC franchise into the ground by trying to make "dark, mature, gritty" ultimately pretentious movies. And Suicide Squad was soooooo safe and cliche. There was nothing controversial about it. What's so funny is that post TDK Marvel has done more for the genre in this era a lot more than DC done recently. The problem with the recent DC movies is how pretentious they are. Why not play it straight like it is. There's a reason why films like Civil War, The Avengers and TWS are regarded the best of the genre. They are what they are and don't try to be anything else. They set out exactly what they promised they'd do.

Snyder and co are basically throwing everything at the wall and see what sticks. BvS and MoS are soo dissapointing because there's potential. You can see it but fail at everything else. The moments in those films are Not EARNED. Take Supermans death for example. It's not earned at all. From a narrative standpoint it just doesn't work at all and lacks emotional resonance. For comparison, Tony's fight with Cap is earned. They built it up over the course of 8 years. We know why it has come to this point.

Fair enough if you like what Dnyder and WB are doing but there's no denying that it's not working. Hence why you're seeing now. They're being reactive and as a result, they're hurting the brand. And it don't help either when the directors are literally throwing shots at Marvel when they're really clueless about the characters they're adapting. But we'll see. Coz now they're basically remaking the first Avengers film with their JL. Another example of making impulsive decisions.

 

[The Overlord]

I think this year so far Marvel is on the top with Civil War, Fox is in the middle having released the excellent Deadpool film and the mediocre X-Men Apocalypse and DC/WB is in last place with two stinkers in a row.


So that is different from last year, when Marvel did okay with Ant Man and Avengers 2, Fox was in dead last with that terrible FF movie and DC/WB didn't release anything. We will have to see how Dr. Strange plays out, I assume it will be good to okay.

 

[Erzengel]

Honestly, I have tickets to see SS next week. I think even if DS is a stinker, personally Marvel would still have won the year.

 

[Zant]

No way Doc Strange is a stinker. Not with that cast.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

If they don't keep the 'even year is excellence, odd year is less' then Doctor Strange might end up being the next Iron Man 3.

 

[Mjölnir]

No that wasn't my point. I said the hero not appearing as the actual hero they went to see until an hour into the movie is not a kid friendly move in a movie. Ang Lee's Hulk was largely criticised for this when it was released as apparently kids and even teenagers got bored of the movie before even seeing the hero himself. Think we got some wires crossed there.

It's quite a difference between only getting Banner and no Hulk, and getting Wayne beating up people and doing training before seeing the costume though. The former are two extremely different characters, the second is pretty much the same thing. I can't see Begins getting the same criticism, nor have I heard anyone complaining about that.

 

[Scarlet Spider]

You can also add Superman Returns to that list. As polarizing as it was, it achieved a certified fresh RT score.

No DC bias there.

 

[Boy Scout]

Personally, I think SS's score is a disgrace. The movie has some serious problems, but I think the critics are being unnecessarily harsh. It's a very funny, very entertaining movie with charismatic leads and impressive action. It deserves to be in the low seventies. Mid-sixities at least.

 

[Mjölnir]

Personally, I think SS's score is a disgrace. The movie has some serious problems, but I think the critics are being unnecessarily harsh. It's a very funny, very entertaining movie with charismatic leads and impressive action. It deserves to be in the low seventies. Mid-sixities at least.

So just because you liked it most critics have to like it? That's what the score is, the percentage of critics that liked it enough to give it a positive review.

The movie is poorly edited, has a very weak story that doesn't even justify using the Suicide Squad, most characters don't get anything relevant to do and the villains are directly bad.

I had a decent time with it since I went in with very low expectations, thanks to the reviews. The more I think about it the more it falls apart though.

 

[regnak]

SS is the ultimate so bad it is good movie.

 

[Boy Scout]

So just because you liked it most critics have to like it?

I didn't say that. Don't put words in my mouth.

That's what the score is, the percentage of critics that liked it enough to give it a positive review.

I know how Rotten Tomatoes works. I was saying that I think the ratio of negative to positive reviews being submitted is ridiculously lopsided.

The movie is poorly edited, has a very weak story that doesn't even justify using the Suicide Squad, most characters don't get anything relevant to do and the villains are directly bad.

I'm aware of the film's problems and enjoyed it in spite of them.

I had a decent time with it since I went in with very low expectations, thanks to the reviews. The more I think about it the more it falls apart though.

Good for you, but I was explaining my thoughts on the film and its reception.

 

[Mjölnir]

I didn't say that. Don't put words in my mouth.

I know how Rotten Tomatoes works. I was saying that I think the ratio of negative to positive reviews being submitted is ridiculously lopsided.

Those two statements don't go together logically. Either you think that most critics (as you did specify a majority in your post) should have enjoyed it because you did, or you don't think that most of them have to like it even though you did which would leave this critic situation a non-issue.

I'm aware of the film's problems and enjoyed it in spite of them.

It's good that you enjoyed it, but then it can't be much of a surprise if many critics don't want to recommend it if it has that many problems (and I didn't really list all of them).

Good for you, but I was explaining my thoughts on the film and its reception.

Quite the contrary. Or well, it's good that I went in with lower expectations so I wasn't terribly disappointed, but before the critic reviews I was the most hyped for this out of any DCEU movie. Good for me would have been loving the movie.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

And we've seen backlash due to what Snyder and WB are doing. They're essentially running the DC franchise into the ground by trying to make "dark, mature, gritty" ultimately pretentious movies. And Suicide Squad was soooooo safe and cliche. There was nothing controversial about it. What's so funny is that post TDK Marvel has done more for the genre in this era a lot more than DC done recently. The problem with the recent DC movies is how pretentious they are. Why not play it straight like it is. There's a reason why films like Civil War, The Avengers and TWS are regarded the best of the genre. They are what they are and don't try to be anything else. They set out exactly what they promised they'd do.

Snyder and co are basically throwing everything at the wall and see what sticks. BvS and MoS are soo dissapointing because there's potential. You can see it but fail at everything else. The moments in those films are Not EARNED. Take Supermans death for example. It's not earned at all. From a narrative standpoint it just doesn't work at all and lacks emotional resonance. For comparison, Tony's fight with Cap is earned. They built it up over the course of 8 years. We know why it has come to this point.

Fair enough if you like what Dnyder and WB are doing but there's no denying that it's not working. Hence why you're seeing now. They're being reactive and as a result, they're hurting the brand. And it don't help either when the directors are literally throwing shots at Marvel when they're really clueless about the characters they're adapting. But we'll see. Coz now they're basically remaking the first Avengers film with their JL. Another example of making impulsive decisions.

To be honest I don't necessarily disagree with any of that. All I was saying is DC gears their movies and choices more to adults than the MCU does. The latter of which totally works for Marvel. So no issues there. Though for me there has still not been an MCU movie that can touch the likes of TDK, X2 or Spiderman 2 so I don't agree about the 3 you mentioned being the best of the genre.

But badk to the point WB choose directors who make controversial choices in their movies, and they could probably do with dialling it down a bit. Personally I like controversial moments in movies, they ignite discussion, as the ending of MOS still does now.

I haven't seen SS yet so can't comment, but I have enjoyed MOS and BvS so far. The UC of the latter quite a bit. But as I originally said way way back in my original post, maybe DC/ WB should aim for more family friendly movies as it may benefit them in the long run. And yeah they need to stop reacting to Marvel, trust in the directors they choose and stick to the tone they began with. I believe they are making the right move making JL lighter, however I do have doubts Snyder can deliver the movie they need. We will see.

 

[Boy Scout]

Those two statements don't go together logically.

Sure they do. I don't care what other people think about things I like or dislike, but I do have the right to have an opinion on their opinions.

Either you think that most critics (as you did specify a majority in your post) should have enjoyed it because you did, or you don't think that most of them have to like it even though you did which would leave this critic situation a non-issue.

There you go again, putting words in my mouth. I never said that I felt the critical reception was a problem for me. Most reasonable adults are capable of having an opinion on contrary points of view without taking those views personally or being offended by them.

Quite the contrary.

Uh, no, not at all. I don't think you can tell me what I was talking about.

Or well, it's good that I went in with lower expectations so I wasn't terribly disappointed, but before the critic reviews I was the most hyped for this out of any DCEU movie. Good for me would have been loving the movie.

Congratulations. I never said that you went in wanting the movie to fail. I'm sorry you didn't enjoy it, but them's the breaks.

 

[Mjölnir]

Sure they do. I don't care what other people think about things I like or dislike, but I do have the right to have an opinion on their opinions.



There you go again, putting words in my mouth. I never said that I felt the critical reception was a problem for me. Most reasonable adults are capable of having an opinion on contrary points of view without taking those views personally or being offended by them.

Then this is the first time in my life I've heard someone say such strong negative things as that something is a disgrace but doesn't think it should be any different. Most people would want things they find dishonorable to change.

Uh, no, not at all. I don't think you can tell me what I was talking about.



Congratulations. I never said that you went in wanting the movie to fail. I'm sorry you didn't enjoy it, but them's the breaks.

I clearly didn't, which should be evident by that I right away went back on the statement when I specified that one aspect could be seen as good before I went on to say what I considered to be good for me.

 

[Boy Scout]

Then this is the first time in my life I've heard someone say such strong negative things as that something is a disgrace but doesn't think it should be any different. Most people would want things they find dishonorable to change.

Describing the situation as a disgrace was intentional hyperbole. The critical reception has been exceptionally harsh and undeserved (IMO), but I don't care that much.

Do I believe that the film should've gotten more positive reviews? Yes.

Do I feel outraged by the film's poor critical reception? No.

Do I think that anyone should disregard their opinion of the film in favor of mine? Not in the slightest.

Or, more succinctly: do I think the score should be higher? Sure. Does it bother me that it isn't? Not at all, because at the end of the day, I enjoyed SS.

At this point, I don't know how I could be any clearer.

I clearly didn't, which should be evident by that I right away went back on the statement when I specified that one aspect could be seen as good before I went on to say what I considered to be good for me.

Right, right.