The Dark Knight Rises Concerns about TDKR

[Sith Scotti]

 

[SantomTheWhite]

Seeing Bale at the Critics Choice Awards and the Golden Globes made me hope that Nolan would spice things up a bit in having Bruce Wayne adopt a long haired and possibly bearded look. But I found out that he's filming right now for some other movie and that's why he has it. Like other people have said, it would be great to have a different look to Bruce Wayne and Batman. The long hair would almost give off that "I'm an outsider and I don't give a ****" vibe.

 

[Yurka]

Why do so many people blame almost solely Goyer for some of BB's flaws? Do we definitively know he was the one inserting all the cheesy lines in the script? After all, TDK had a heap as well, and like with BB, most were given to the cops.

Because everything I've watched/read that Goyer was involved in had stuff like that in it. Goyer was involved in TDK too so I have no doubt the "hockey padzzz" and others he had a say in.

 

[The Joker]

Your avatar is awesome, Yurka.

 

[Yurka]

Haha. Thanks man

 

[PreK]

Well if you just look at his suit and voice out of context then no he's not intimidating. In the comics he looks like a cheesy superhero and in the movies he looks like a dude in armor with two fins on his head. The point is that in universe he is supposedly scary and that his theatricality is actually working.

Of course we could change the suit and have him dress in fur and fangs to look like Manbat who if you watched the Batman Forever deleted scenes is pissing your pants scary and therefore make him actually scary. But we dont want to do that, we can just suspend our disbelief.

The audience doesn't care that he isn't much of an actual Bat-Man. It's more of how literally half the audience is split on Bale's choice of line delivery. The whole effect (whatever it might be) is diminished if the viewer fails to connect with it.

As for the actual world Batman resides in, I will point you to Maroni. Who kept his smug and cool little self all calm while Bats tried with all his might to put fear in him. It's safe to say that the monster image has been done away with in that universe. Again, the over-reactive voice is pointless in that regard.

Also, if you are on a dark alley and someone is walking behind you, i bet that you feel some chills down your spine. Now imagine having someone with Batman's look and abilities stalking you from the shadows.

The situation itself evokes fear. The voice does nothing much to add to that. No sound person is going to be afraid of a person in a dark alley, but when asked to comply with a request, reply "this is scary and all, but not that scary where I'll do what you want".

And to get down to the voice, yeah i think it works in the context of "i will become a bat and scare the crap out of people". Talking like Keaton, Kilmer or even the godly Conroy doesnt fit with that.

I'd have to stamp my foot firmly in place here. The entire idea of a very vocal, loud, and aggressive Batman never came into play until Bale. I'm most definitely not going to call his interpretation the one that got the foundations of the character right, as that statement seems to imply.

Despite Bale unfortunately not having the best vocal cords for the gig, in my opinion the idea in itself is correct. Watch the Flass interrogation and tell me if Batman could ever be scarier.

I've referenced that scene before as a good example of how to take the concept. Even still, I do miss the "show don't tell" approach that has been so defined within the character. It would actually serve his angrier moments to have more impact should it be delivered in small doses.

Heath understood this perfectly.

 

[Rocketman]

This is the Concerns thread, so I'm going to go wild and rant. Don't read if you're not interested.

Is anyone getting the vibe that this movie is being rushed and half-assed? By all means, I'm extremely pumped, and I love Christopher Nolan, and I couldn't be happier with this franchise; I just need to nitpick for a second.

Does it feel like everyone's (Nolan, Bale, etc) heart isn't in it as much this time around? It kind of seems like everyone is just indifferent. I get this vibe like, "Yeah, new Batman movie. Have to finish the story. Whatever."

First, Nolan has said, "We need to finish the story." Obviously he's being paid a butt-load by WB, and we all know this movie will make a bazillion dollars.

Bale is contracted for three films, so even if he hated the idea of coming back (and for all we know, that could be the case), he still has to do the movie. I'm not trying to say anything derogatory or disrespectful about Bale, I'm just throwing it out there. I love Christian Bale as much as I love Nolan.

There's the issue of Heath Ledger. In a perfect world, The Joker would've been in this movie, and for all we know, he was probably an intricate part of the story that Goyer and Nolan were toying around with before Heath's death. Who knows? I'm just speculating. So if that's true, we know that Goyer and Nolan had to therefore "tweak" a story that was already established and make "something else." As a result, this movie will not be their original intention. Once again, I'm talking out of my ass, and there are no facts here to back up my thoughts.

Heath Ledger was Nolan's first and only choice for The Joker, according to him. Do you think it's 100% certain that Anne Hathaway was the first choice, too? Or was she the second, or third choice? Though it's not confirmed that she was a candidate, consider that Marion Cotillard is pregnant. What if she was the first choice? It's just interesting to me.

Nolan just said that he was "banging his head against the wall" for a title. Many people aren't pleased with The Dark Knight Rises. I personally love the title. But nonetheless, haters gonna hate.

So my position is this: there might not be as much "heart" with this movie like in the first two. Things seem to be shuffled around in order to make a movie. It's already being released a year and a half from now. July 20, 2012 isn't that far away. So although I'm extremely excited for this movie, I'm definitely concerned that we're not getting something with the same tender love and care that we saw in the first two movies.

 

[ALP]

Only thing I really agree with is lack of Joker and that isnt much concern as he isn't a necessity.

 

[Mr. Earle]

The audience doesn't care that he isn't much of an actual Bat-Man. It's more of how literally half the audience is split on Bale's choice of line delivery. The whole effect (whatever it might be) is diminished if the viewer fails to connect with it.

As for the actual world Batman resides in, I will point you to Maroni. Who kept his smug and cool little self all calm while Bats tried with all his might to put fear in him. It's safe to say that the monster image has been done away with in that universe. Again, the over-reactive voice is pointless in that regard.

Does that mean that needs to change his suit too? It simply isnt working either it seems. I can only assume that Bruce is stupid, since he went out of his way to look like a bat and people arent buying it, or are least get scared by him (even if they know he's just a man) after only 6 months. And that's where Nolan's realism becomes too much. Not that they figured him out, but that they arent scared of him. I dunno, if Bruce Wayne says this suit is scary and puts the fear in criminals, people should piss their pants simply at the sight of him.

I'd have to stamp my foot firmly in place here. The entire idea of a very vocal, loud, and aggressive Batman never came into play until Bale.

As far as the movies go yeah, but i dont know about the comics.

I'm most definitely not going to call his interpretation the one that got the foundations of the character right, as that statement seems to imply.

I'm not saying that its canon, but rather that it makes sense to me that if he dresses like a monster, that he'd sound like a monster, especially when interrogating people. While some of my friends laughed in the theatre during Flass' interrogation, i had a nerdgasm. Its a matter of taste i suppose.

I've referenced that scene before as a good example of how to take the concept. Even still, I do miss the "show don't tell" approach that has been so defined within the character. It would actually serve his angrier moments to have more impact should it be delivered in small doses.

Heath understood this perfectly.

I get that. I suppose that he doesnt have to shout at every occasion, but i definitely enjoy it when he does.

 

[Conebone69]

This is the Concerns thread, so I'm going to go wild and rant. Don't read if you're not interested.

Is anyone getting the vibe that this movie is being rushed and half-assed? By all means, I'm extremely pumped, and I love Christopher Nolan, and I couldn't be happier with this franchise; I just need to nitpick for a second.

Does it feel like everyone's (Nolan, Bale, etc) heart isn't in it as much this time around? It kind of seems like everyone is just indifferent. I get this vibe like, "Yeah, new Batman movie. Have to finish the story. Whatever."

First, Nolan has said, "We need to finish the story." Obviously he's being paid a butt-load by WB, and we all know this movie will make a bazillion dollars.

Bale is contracted for three films, so even if he hated the idea of coming back (and for all we know, that could be the case), he still has to do the movie. I'm not trying to say anything derogatory or disrespectful about Bale, I'm just throwing it out there. I love Christian Bale as much as I love Nolan.

There's the issue of Heath Ledger. In a perfect world, The Joker would've been in this movie, and for all we know, he was probably an intricate part of the story that Goyer and Nolan were toying around with before Heath's death. Who knows? I'm just speculating. So if that's true, we know that Goyer and Nolan had to therefore "tweak" a story that was already established and make "something else." As a result, this movie will not be their original intention. Once again, I'm talking out of my ass, and there are no facts here to back up my thoughts.

Heath Ledger was Nolan's first and only choice for The Joker, according to him. Do you think it's 100% certain that Anne Hathaway was the first choice, too? Or was she the second, or third choice? Though it's not confirmed that she was a candidate, consider that Marion Cotillard is pregnant. What if she was the first choice? It's just interesting to me.

Nolan just said that he was "banging his head against the wall" for a title. Many people aren't pleased with The Dark Knight Rises. I personally love the title. But nonetheless, haters gonna hate.

So my position is this: there might not be as much "heart" with this movie like in the first two. Things seem to be shuffled around in order to make a movie. It's already being released a year and a half from now. July 20, 2012 isn't that far away. So although I'm extremely excited for this movie, I'm definitely concerned that we're not getting something with the same tender love and care that we saw in the first two movies.

I dont see why you think this movie is rushed and not cared about. What gave off that vibe?

 

[the amazing fro]

Seeing Bale at the Critics Choice Awards and the Golden Globes made me hope that Nolan would spice things up a bit in having Bruce Wayne adopt a long haired and possibly bearded look. But I found out that he's filming right now for some other movie and that's why he has it. Like other people have said, it would be great to have a different look to Bruce Wayne and Batman. The long hair would almost give off that "I'm an outsider and I don't give a ****" vibe.

 

[RustyCage]

Pff!

Maybe Batman's new tactic is to hide a third fist in there.

 

[BatZiLLa54]

I really hope they go with the BB voice instead of the studio rendered TDK voice. That is my only concern. In BB yeah a few people had a complaint with the voice then TDK came along and thats all people could talk about.

I hope it gets addressed, because like people in the comics have pointed out he sounds similiar to Clint Eastwood and thats what I feel Bale was going for.

Watch Gran Torino if you don't believe me lol. Sidenote, Eastwood would be the perfect bruce wayne for a batman beyond movie.

 

[RustyCage]

I really hope they go with the BB voice instead of the studio rendered TDK voice. That is my only concern. In BB yeah a few people had a complaint with the voice then TDK came along and thats all people could talk about.

I hope it gets addressed, because like people in the comics have pointed out he sounds similiar to Clint Eastwood and thats what I feel Bale was going for.

Watch Gran Torino if you don't believe me lol. Sidenote, Eastwood would be the perfect bruce wayne for a batman beyond movie.

Agreed on all counts.

 

[Miranda Fox]

This is the Concerns thread, so I'm going to go wild and rant. Don't read if you're not interested.

Is anyone getting the vibe that this movie is being rushed and half-assed? By all means, I'm extremely pumped, and I love Christopher Nolan, and I couldn't be happier with this franchise; I just need to nitpick for a second.

Does it feel like everyone's (Nolan, Bale, etc) heart isn't in it as much this time around? It kind of seems like everyone is just indifferent. I get this vibe like, "Yeah, new Batman movie. Have to finish the story. Whatever."

You know, at first, I did get that impression. But since the script has been finished that attitude seems to have gone away. I really do think Nolan came close to walking away, which is totally understandable, but I also believe he, David and Jonah did eventually come up with a story they really wanted to tell.

I think the thing you have to remember is that Nolan doesn't need Batman anymore. He's shown he can rake in the cash with a non-franchise film. I don't consider this the same situation as, say, Sam Raimi found himself in when he was making Spider-Man 3 (in spite of coming off the critically lauded Spider-Man 2) and having to make concessions to Avi Arad - Raimi made his name from cult hits and hadn't established himself as a big hitter outside of Spider-Man.

First, Nolan has said, "We need to finish the story." Obviously he's being paid a butt-load by WB, and we all know this movie will make a bazillion dollars.

Yes, but WB would also pay him a boatload of money to do whatever he wants. In any case, Nolan doesn't strike me as a man motivated by money.

There's the issue of Heath Ledger. In a perfect world, The Joker would've been in this movie, and for all we know, he was probably an intricate part of the story that Goyer and Nolan were toying around with before Heath's death. Who knows? I'm just speculating. So if that's true, we know that Goyer and Nolan had to therefore "tweak" a story that was already established and make "something else." As a result, this movie will not be their original intention. Once again, I'm talking out of my ass, and there are no facts here to back up my thoughts.

We'll never really know what their original intentions were. Goyer did say they had a period of writer's block which is how they came up with the plot for The Man of Steel. Whether that was related to having to change their plans because of what happened, who knows.

Heath Ledger was Nolan's first and only choice for The Joker, according to him. Do you think it's 100% certain that Anne Hathaway was the first choice, too? Or was she the second, or third choice? Though it's not confirmed that she was a candidate, consider that Marion Cotillard is pregnant. What if she was the first choice? It's just interesting to me.

Nolan just said that he was "banging his head against the wall" for a title. Many people aren't pleased with The Dark Knight Rises. I personally love the title. But nonetheless, haters gonna hate.

So my position is this: there might not be as much "heart" with this movie like in the first two. Things seem to be shuffled around in order to make a movie. It's already being released a year and a half from now. July 20, 2012 isn't that far away. So although I'm extremely excited for this movie, I'm definitely concerned that we're not getting something with the same tender love and care that we saw in the first two movies.

It is always possible but, personally, I don't think that will happen. I really don't.

My one fear isn't so much that the film will suck, but that for whatever reason a lot of people won't like it and Nolan will suddenly turn into the anti-Christ. Sort of like what happened to Raimi after Spider-Man 3. I was never the biggest fan of his Spidey movies, but the hate that guy gets truly baffles me.

 

[Batman137]

Everyone wants to do it. I dont know why people think its rushed. It took 3 years to have a script for gods sake. They took their time to make it right

 

[Figs]

My one fear isn't so much that the film will suck, but that for whatever reason a lot of people won't like it and Nolan will suddenly turn into the anti-Christ. Sort of like what happened to Raimi after Spider-Man 3. I was never the biggest fan of his Spidey movies, but the hate that guy gets truly baffles me.

Same. He has that whole fanboy trilogy curse thing going against him, so fans will be viewing this last Batman film of his with a magnifying glass.

 

[Two-Face]

Yeah TDKR supossed to come out in 2011 but they took another year not to rush it.

 

[Scorcher7]

I have the echo the sentiment that some other posters have already noted. I too was a little afraid that Nolan was somewhat "pushed" into making this film. I thought after the success of TDK and the passing of Ledger, that he'd have no desire to come back and try and top that movie, especially without the character of the Joker. It seems from what you can piece together, the Joker probably would have played a big role in the third movie.

Then came the reports every month or so that Nolan was still tweaking the script. It seemed to me that he was having a difficult time coming up with a good story. Thats the feeling I got when I heard those reports. There were also stories of him and Goyer being stuck on the story and Chris' brother having a hard time making the script feel as epic as it needs to be. Maybe I am remembering that wrong.

Don't get me wrong, I still thought Nolan would produce a good film, but that it would pale in comparison to TDK and maybe even BB. Then came the news from Eckhart that the story would blow us away. That got me a little excited. But after hearing that interview with Wally yesterday just totally changed my outlook. I sincerely believed it when he said that Nolan's script for TDKR surpassed TDK and would make the perfect trilogy. I know they aren't gonna say that the script sucked, but I think this is different. I really think Pfister was blown away with the story. And that gets me really pumped. I really think this movie is going to live up to the hype. I do think its gonna be different from TDK but ultimately better.

As for Anne Hathaway. Ive never been mesmerized by her acting. Ive never really loved her movies. I enjoyed Get Smart, but that was more because I am a Steve Carrell fan. But I completely trust Nolan when it comes to casting. And after watching Get Smart again this weekend, I can see why Hathaway might have gotten the role. Granted it wasn't the greatest material to work with, she was pretty good and most importantly not cringe worthy, like a lot of actresses in action movies this day. Whether she was Nolans first choice or not doesn't matter. I don't think a lot of the actors in the Batman films are Nolans first choice. Caine, Neeson, Eckhart and even Oldman seem to have been cast after another actor turned down the role. As much as I like Cotillard for Catwoman, I know Hathaway will be pretty memorable.

So long story short. Yes I had some concerns, but after the last couple of weeks, I am pretty sure this movie will be everything I want it to be and more. Nolan has not dissapointed me once yet. I don't think he'll start now.

 

[BatmanGoesToRio]

My concerns are...

1) that we get to see Selina Kyle but no Catwoman.

2) that they kill off another major villain like Ra's in BB (though his death is still debatable for me) and Two-Face in TDK.

3) that we get another deus ex machina like the microwave emitter in BB and this sonar stuff in TDK.

4) that the film gets weaker and weaker in the third act (like in BB and TDK)

5) that they're even more storylines than in TDK (it kinda worked in TDK but sometimes less is more).

Other than that I have no idea how Bane could fit in the story after the events in TDK but that's not a concern. I'm just wondering.
And IMHO Anne is a good choice for Selina. She's cute.

 

[-JKR-]

I, for one, didn't feel BB and TDK had weak third acts. And I especially love the mood in the third act of BB. With the fear gas and everything... Just love it. And the numerous turns in TDK. I both think have quite exciting third acts.

 

[Secret Fawful]

Pff!

Maybe Batman's new tactic is to hide a third fist in there.

 

[BigEggo]

concerns:
1. the bat-voice.if it gets any worse,ill have to stick my fingers in my ears and scream lalalala when bale appears
2. the last thing ive seen hathaway in was alice in wonderland.she was utterly appalling in it.doesnt bode well.
3. the cheesy faux-independence day lines cops spout in moments of urgency/chaos,i really dont think i could stand it if that moron from the scene where dent is being taken to jail returns.
4. catwoman creates campiness whereever she goes.

 

[Gianakin_]

concerns:
1. the bat-voice.if it gets any worse,ill have to stick my fingers in my ears and scream lalalala when bale appears
2. the last thing ive seen hathaway in was alice in wonderland.she was utterly appalling in it.doesnt bode well.
3. the cheesy faux-independence day lines cops spout in moments of urgency/chaos,i really dont think i could stand it if that moron from the scene where dent is being taken to jail returns.
4. catwoman creates campiness whereever she goes.

1.Either it's of TDK levels or of BB. I don't think they will experiment any more.
2.Although I think she was the 1 watchable thing in that crappy movie, you should watch her more recent work to see what she's capable of.
3.He won't return, but I can almost guarantee another stunt like that. I don't like it either and, frankly, it's too little of a gripe to actually have it be a legit concern, but Nolan seems to love it for whatever reason.
4.How do you mean?

 

[terry78]

Regarding Nolan being pushed, you do know that if he turned it down WB would still go ahead and make another without him, even if they had to recast the thing. Batman is their cash cow along with Scooby Doo.