Contest of Marvels II Thread 1

[Phaedrus45]

Partial Rebuttal of Spidey vs. Dragon Man:

I still need to research the comics in question; but, if you say the Spidey armor was destroyed in that issue, and this is Spidey at the beginning of forming the New Avengers, it would stand to reason it's not available. (But, you could argue whether he could make it again.)

Now, as for the location, while it might initially hinder Dragon Man, it won't for long. I want to point out this portion of the biography on him:

His thick hide is capable of resisting without rupture ballistic impacts up to and including 155mm Howitzer shells, or 300 pounds of TNT. His body can withstand extremes in both temperature (from -200° to 1,000°+ Fahrenheit) and pressure (from 0.02 to 12.5 atmospheres). Not truly alive, Dragon Man does not need oxygen to sustain his pseudo-life. He is an omnivore, capable of consuming, diverse forms of matter and converting them to energy. (He has not yet tasted flesh). His tail, which is 7 feet long from base to tip, can be whipped at speeds of up to 130 feet per second (90 miles per hour), generating enough force to smash a 3-foot thick stone wall or topple a loaded 5,000 gallon tank truck.

Now, since Dragon Man does not need oxygen to sustain his life and he can survive in temperatures from -200 to 1,000 degrees Fahrenheit, I'm going to suppose he could survive in space. It's possible that as soon as Dragon Man arrives and see he's enclosed in Asteroid M, he would start destroying everything around him. With halls and other such areas, he'd be blowing extremely hot gusts of fire down, killing anything in it's path. Plus, he'd have his tail smashing stuff, too.

At first, I thought the location was better for Spidey, but the more I looked into things, realized that Dragon Man could survive in space and Spidey wouldn't be able to, I came to the conclusion that Spidey might be royally screwed. Dragon Man, like any dog, won't like to be "caged up" in a confined space. He would break his way out, thus destroying Asteroid M possibly in his attempt to get out. If he didn't kill Spidey with letting in the lack of air in space, he would just start to destroy the whole Ateroid. It doesn't take brillance to make Dragon Man want to squash a bug...or spider.

Winner = Dragon Man

 

[JewishHobbit]

Partial Rebuttal of Spidey vs. Dragon Man:

I still need to research the comics in question; but, if you say the Spidey armor was destroyed in that issue, and this is Spidey at the beginning of forming the New Avengers, it would stand to reason it's not available. (But, you could argue whether he could make it again.)

Yeah, I wasn't sure whether he could make it in 24 hours either, so I'll just let the voters decide if he can. If he can, then he has the added amor, which doesn't slow him down any by the way... and if he can't then no big deal. It's just extra protection.

Now, as for the location, while it might initially hinder Dragon Man, it won't for long. I want to point out this portion of the biography on him:

His thick hide is capable of resisting without rupture ballistic impacts up to and including 155mm Howitzer shells, or 300 pounds of TNT. His body can withstand extremes in both temperature (from -200° to 1,000°+ Fahrenheit) and pressure (from 0.02 to 12.5 atmospheres). Not truly alive, Dragon Man does not need oxygen to sustain his pseudo-life. He is an omnivore, capable of consuming, diverse forms of matter and converting them to energy. (He has not yet tasted flesh). His tail, which is 7 feet long from base to tip, can be whipped at speeds of up to 130 feet per second (90 miles per hour), generating enough force to smash a 3-foot thick stone wall or topple a loaded 5,000 gallon tank truck.

Now, since Dragon Man does not need oxygen to sustain his life and he can survive in temperatures from -200 to 1,000 degrees Fahrenheit, I'm going to suppose he could survive in space. It's possible that as soon as Dragon Man arrives and see he's enclosed in Asteroid M, he would start destroying everything around him. With halls and other such areas, he'd be blowing extremely hot gusts of fire down, killing anything in it's path. Plus, he'd have his tail smashing stuff, too.

At first, I thought the location was better for Spidey, but the more I looked into things, realized that Dragon Man could survive in space and Spidey wouldn't be able to, I came to the conclusion that Spidey might be royally screwed. Dragon Man, like any dog, won't like to be "caged up" in a confined space. He would break his way out, thus destroying Asteroid M possibly in his attempt to get out. If he didn't kill Spidey with letting in the lack of air in space, he would just start to destroy the whole Ateroid. It doesn't take brillance to make Dragon Man want to squash a bug...or spider.

We're talking the king of evasive manuevers here. Dragon Man couldn't tag Spidey in Web 100, I think it's safe to assume he can dodge here too. Between his agility and spidey sense, I think he's pretty safe.

As for space... the thing is, Spidey just needs to focus on not getting sucked out. He's not dumb... when Dragon Man starts going nuts, destroying everything, he'll probably try to salvage it, but seeing a lost cause, he's ducking for cover. Dragon Man's an android... he won't lose much sleep over him going out the 'hatch.' And Dragon Man can survive in space, but his bio says nothing about being able to navigate it. If he gets sucked out, and spidey remains inside... he's effectively removed from the battle and loses. Spidey wins. Dragon Man's a dangerous foe that could have gone far, but the tight quarters, his lack of intelligence, and his savagry is his undoing. Spidey's smart enough to stay out of his way. If a wall is about to blow, his spidey sense will warn him and he'll get the heck out of dodge and win this match.

Winner - Spiderman

 

[Phaedrus45]

Yeah, I wasn't sure whether he could make it in 24 hours either, so I'll just let the voters decide if he can. If he can, then he has the added amor, which doesn't slow him down any by the way... and if he can't then no big deal. It's just extra protection.



We're talking the king of evasive manuevers here. Dragon Man couldn't tag Spidey in Web 100, I think it's safe to assume he can dodge here too. Between his agility and spidey sense, I think he's pretty safe.

As for space... the thing is, Spidey just needs to focus on not getting sucked out. He's not dumb... when Dragon Man starts going nuts, destroying everything, he'll probably try to salvage it, but seeing a lost cause, he's ducking for cover. Dragon Man's an android... he won't lose much sleep over him going out the 'hatch.' And Dragon Man can survive in space, but his bio says nothing about being able to navigate it. If he gets sucked out, and spidey remains inside... he's effectively removed from the battle and loses. Spidey wins. Dragon Man's a dangerous foe that could have gone far, but the tight quarters, his lack of intelligence, and his savagry is his undoing. Spidey's smart enough to stay out of his way. If a wall is about to blow, his spidey sense will warn him and he'll get the heck out of dodge and win this match.

For me, Dragon Man has wings and is an android. He should be able to navigate in space just fine. If Asteroid M has numerous holes made in it from Dragon Man's ability to lift 100 tons, I don't see how long Spidey can survive. Anyway, I'm going to do more research on my character this weekend. I'm still trying to figure out how Spider-Man is going to knock out Dragon Man.

Winner = Dragon Man

 

[JewishHobbit]

For me, Dragon Man has wings and is an android. He should be able to navigate in space just fine. If Asteroid M has numerous holes made in it from Dragon Man's ability to lift 100 tons, I don't see how long Spidey can survive. Anyway, I'm going to do more research on my character this weekend. I'm still trying to figure out how Spider-Man is going to knock out Dragon Man.

Winner = Dragon Man

Just because Dragon Man has wings and is an android, that doesn't meen he has anything to do with space. Wings won't help where they're no environment to fluxuate or move him with. No gusts of air, nothing to glide on, just nothing. If a bird was in space (and no pressure killing it) it wouldn't be able to fly, same for Dragon Man. Dragon Man also doesn't have any sort of propulsion deal or whatever it is that makes things like a space shuttle fly. He'd just float and float until he's removed from the battle.

Spidey can just move to other rooms and get away before the hole even blows. He'll know it's coming due to his spidey sense, and he can get away. The hole will suck out Dragon Man imediately while Spidey is already gone from that room or place. Granted, it's a breach and would probably do a lot of damage to Asteroid M (though I could easily see Magneto making some type of procedure to make the place adjust to this, such as dumping a part of the station, or having something to repare it or something). Spidey would have a heck of a time getting away and such, but he can move quickly, he has adhesive abilities to help him move away from the suction, etc. It isn't hard to imagine him staying aboard long enough to be awarded a win.


How can Spidey knock out Dragon Man? It doesn't matter as it isnt' necessary. The location itself would win this match no matter who Dragon Man's facing. It's just a tight location with an animal like prisoner that would end the same every time. Dragon Man throws a fit and tries to become uncaged and ends up breaking out of the station and floating away in space. Dragon Man is a beast, but even Beak has a chance of beating him here, and add Spidey's experience, knowledge of Dragon Man, intelligence, spidey sense, and adhesive abilities... he's got this in the bag.

Winner - Spiderman

 

[Phaedrus45]

My problem with the above argument is that Marvel (and DC for that matter) is constantly showing people who might not be able to do what they do in space as doing what they do. I can see a Marvel writer taking the above scenario and making Dragon Man be able to use his wings.

 

[JewishHobbit]

I could too, but the fact remains... they haven't thus far... therefor, he can't. If voters think he can, then let them vote for that, but I don't think he can if not having been shown doing it by now (how long's he been around?)

Also, most poeple that can fly are cosmic characters to begin with and are made for it, or have powers that can propell them (such as Firestar). I'm sure there's exceptions to the rules, but that's just bad writing, not really character traits.

 

[hippy fascist]

Cable vs Doc Samson

(Sorry for the delay ahura, I've been on a 56k connection for the last two weeks so haven't been able to get on here.)

Woohoo! Cable is one of my all time favourite characters and the location (due to this particular version of cable) suits me right down to the ground!

Ok, so lets go over his powers first. While cable is not at his god-like power levels at this point he is still damn powerful telepath being more powerful than rachel but not quite as powerful as jean. The nature of the techno-organic virus is a complicated one but the best way to view it is this. Wolverine's adamantium takes a small portion of his healing factor away as it is constantly attacking his system requiring this small portion to keep it in check. Cable has the same problem with the techno-organic virus. When you consider that the base level for these powers is x-man however you realise that this is still one DAMN powerful telepath. He can throw up forcefields, emit telekenetic blasts, control or shut down minds, fly (to a limited extent) and of course there's also the time travel.(I believe this is the right timeframe I am thinking of, if not could jewhobs or phaed pm me to ammend my definition of powers)

As this is pre-cable & deadpool he should still be in posession of his bio-mechanical arm and eye (although I'm not too up on cable anddeadpool so he may still have those). The eye provides cable with heat vision which in a massive city such as this should prove highly usefull for both evading and tracking his opponent.

In terms of preptime cable has the definate advantage here. He will have full knowledge of Samson's powers and abilities and will have the resources to prepare accordingly. Samson on the other hand will know little of what cable is capable of, and from what little exposure he has had to him will assume he is just a big guy with a metal arm and lots of guns.

In terms of how the fight will go down, cable has access to tech 100's of years in advance of our own. As a result of this he is faced with two options:

1. He is a highly trained mercenary with access to some VERY BIG guns. The kind of firepower that could take out samson quickly and efficiently. He could gain information on the location early and scope out the best plays to lay and ambush for samson whereas samson again will have very little info on the location.

2. He uses his psychic abilities to take Samson down. He can do this in multiple ways by bringing a building down on him with his telekenesis, or bombarding him with wave after wave of telekentik blasts, or he could simply lock down his mind turning him (temporarily) into the equivalent of a lobotomised mental patient.

While Samson is very strong cable can wield firepower strong enough to take him out. He also has little or no psychic resistance that I have been able to find info on so the psychic assault route would probably be the best option here. Again (I feel like I'm always saying this, just getting luck with the draw I guess ) Against any physically orientated opponent Samson would walk it but the lack of psychic defenses will be his undoing here.

WINNER: CABLE!

 

[Hellstormer]

Wrong thread

 

[hippy fascist]

Ok this is what I am going to assume for this battle:

Cable has telepathic abilities but he is no where near the X-Man range. Otherwise he has his normal skills and aptitude.

No where near is the wrong phrase, he's not that far off but I agree heis not at x-man range. However, he is still one of the most powerful telepath/telekenetics on the planet.

With regard to information, both will know of each other and Cable will have an added advantage of knowing the terrain better.

With regards the personal info we could debate that all day so I say we just let it drop. I agree with you about the terrain though! t:

this battle will however be a head on battle. Doc Samson is Diet Hulk, like the Hulk but with less calories He has all the Hulk abilities to a lesser degree.

One of those abilities is mind resistance (not immunity). Therefore the level of Cable's powers will have their improtance here.

This is where we begin to disagree. To quote the marvel database's bio

Note: As is apparent by comparing the mutated forms of such gamma radiation subjects as the Hulk, the Abomination, Doc Samson, and the Leader, different frequencies of gamma radiation affect different human beings in different ways. The effect that intensive gamma radiation has on most people is cellular deterioration and eventual death, but there are others whose genetic constitution enables them to mutate so as to gain superhuman powers. The type and extent of mutation is determined by tour factors: the frequency and amount of the gamma rays, the subject's latent mutant potential, and the subject's psychological make-up. The subject's potential for mutation is dictated by certain mysterious "intersticial" segments of DNA (deoxyribonucleic acid), the molecules which carry a living organism's genetic code. Under the action of mutagenic influences, such as gamma rays, the segments can trigger many body wide restructuring events. As for the subject's psychological make-up, it has been theorized that the gamma radiation somehow acts to mold the subject's mutated form according to repressed desires within his subconscious. Hence, Doc Samson's mutated form is the physical embodiment of his own long-buried desire to become a super heroic figure.​

He is often compared to the hulk as, I believe, he started out in hulks book and is an extremely physical character. However, every bio I have read says healing, strength, durability and genius intellect. Not one reference to psychic defenses. I am not overly familiar with the character so if you can provide references I'd be happy to concede this point but I'd require proof of psychic defenses. Due to the nature of cable's powers this would be the only thorn in my side. Just because a character is compared to another, it does not mean they have same powerset. Just look at northstar and quicksilver, similar and often compared but with significant differences.

With regards cable's power levels, as i said in my opening argument, he is still one of the most powerful telepaths on the planet, just not quite at jean and x-man's level. I would put him just shy of omega class as this is the period after he worked on his powers with his mother (again need a clarification on this refs)

In a straight up fist fight, Doc sampson wins easily given his strength levels and fighting prowess so it will all depend on how this battle goes. Cable can be potentially be put out of play by Doc Sampson before he is able to have any effect. Most of Cable's weaponry will have little effect given Doc Sampson's degree of physical resistance.

Debatable on the resistance (samson can stand much of what is available TODAY but remember that this cable is a time traveller, I'm sure he can find something to hurt Samson.

Secondly, cable would never allow this to come to a fist fight. This guy is the leader of a band of mercenaries and a military genius. He is also possesed of vast telekenetic and telepathic abilities. He would know where Samson is at all time's meaning he could always stay one step ahead of the game. This is a vast city, they are not going to be dropped in 10 paces from each other like high noon. This is guerilla warfare, something cable has vast experience with. He'll have worked out what traps to lay where and use subtle psychic suggestions to send samson where HE wants him to go and then lay him out.

Doc Sampson should pull a win even if it will be through difficulty.

Winner - Doc Sampson

I've tried not to take this stance in the tournament thus far but I have to say, I can't see how samson could win this. He is inferior in terms of training, experience, mental capabilites and resources. If this was a flat desert plain maybe he could find a way to win, but in a built up area against a hugely powerful telepath I can't see how he could win it.

WINNER: CABLE!

 

[DarkHellRider]

[
Match 24:

Abomination (WOLVERINE25TH) bio

vs.

Juggernaut - Villian (DARKHELLRIDER) bio

Tough match but a match Juggernaut could win. True aAbomination is strong but juggernaut is just about as strong. Prep time nether would have info on one another but its ok because juggernaut would not need it. Juggernaut have unending endurance and the abilty to not be hurt. Abomination true long lasting but not nearly as long as juggeraut he is able to be hurt but he can regenerate slowly all juggernaut would have to do is just lay into abomination if anything get him into space where juggernaut can still survive but abomination would go into a type of come letting juggy lay into him until they fall to earth. Tough match one I would love to see but juggy could take this.

Winner=the juggernat *^&)$es

 

[Ahura Mazda]

Cable vs Doc Samson

(Sorry for the delay ahura, I've been on a 56k connection for the last two weeks so haven't been able to get on here.)

No problem, I actually had no internet connection this weekend due to cable issues in my neighbourhood.

Woohoo! Cable is one of my all time favourite characters and the location (due to this particular version of cable) suits me right down to the ground!

Glad you have him then........except I wish it was not against me

Ok, so lets go over his powers first. While cable is not at his god-like power levels at this point he is still damn powerful telepath being more powerful than rachel but not quite as powerful as jean. The nature of the techno-organic virus is a complicated one but the best way to view it is this. Wolverine's adamantium takes a small portion of his healing factor away as it is constantly attacking his system requiring this small portion to keep it in check. Cable has the same problem with the techno-organic virus. When you consider that the base level for these powers is x-man however you realise that this is still one DAMN powerful telepath. He can throw up forcefields, emit telekenetic blasts, control or shut down minds, fly (to a limited extent) and of course there's also the time travel.(I believe this is the right timeframe I am thinking of, if not could jewhobs or phaed pm me to ammend my definition of powers)

This is where I was not clear and my posting was based on what I thought. First of all, however, even though Cable is more powerful then what I originally estimated he is not at X-Man's level and the techno-organic virus takes more out of Cable then what adamantium does out of Wolverine. This is evident by how he was when he was cured and how effective Wolverine's healing fctor was when he lost the adamantium. The difference was considerably greater with Cable.

But to be very honest I am not quite clear on Cable's level of power and that requires a clear definition.

As this is pre-cable & deadpool he should still be in posession of his bio-mechanical arm and eye (although I'm not too up on cable anddeadpool so he may still have those). The eye provides cable with heat vision which in a massive city such as this should prove highly usefull for both evading and tracking his opponent.

I am fin with that.

In terms of preptime cable has the definate advantage here. He will have full knowledge of Samson's powers and abilities and will have the resources to prepare accordingly. Samson on the other hand will know little of what cable is capable of, and from what little exposure he has had to him will assume he is just a big guy with a metal arm and lots of guns.

This is where I disagree, I do admit that cable does have the advantage but I wish to put forward that Sampson will have good knowledge of Cable based on all his resources.

In terms of how the fight will go down, cable has access to tech 100's of years in advance of our own. As a result of this he is faced with two options:

1. He is a highly trained mercenary with access to some VERY BIG guns. The kind of firepower that could take out samson quickly and efficiently. He could gain information on the location early and scope out the best plays to lay and ambush for samson whereas samson again will have very little info on the location.

Sampson can withstand tank shells and cable does not have a hand held gun that will cause more damage unless I am missing something. The thing is this tactic actually gives Sampson an adavantage as he is a brilliant strategist himself and would be wary of any ambush. Plus physically he is clearly Cable's superiour.

2. He uses his psychic abilities to take Samson down. He can do this in multiple ways by bringing a building down on him with his telekenesis, or bombarding him with wave after wave of telekentik blasts, or he could simply lock down his mind turning him (temporarily) into the equivalent of a lobotomised mental patient.

This strategy is the main question in this debate. Based on Cable's level, he either takes this easy or he loses badly. Normally, one hit from Sampson would be enough to put Cable down. Then again a psychic blast of sufficient power would put Sampson down.

Samspn does have some degree of resisitance even though there is nothing I can show as evidence here. His level of resistance would be light though.

 

[Ahura Mazda]

No where near is the wrong phrase, he's not that far off but I agree heis not at x-man range. However, he is still one of the most powerful telepath/telekenetics on the planet.

this point is debatable and can only be settled by the authorities. I leave it uop to them.

With regards the personal info we could debate that all day so I say we just let it drop. I agree with you about the terrain though! t:

Ok I know you have the advantage here but its only fair.

This is where we begin to disagree. To quote the marvel database's bio


He is often compared to the hulk as, I believe, he started out in hulks book and is an extremely physical character. However, every bio I have read says healing, strength, durability and genius intellect. Not one reference to psychic defenses. I am not overly familiar with the character so if you can provide references I'd be happy to concede this point but I'd require proof of psychic defenses. Due to the nature of cable's powers this would be the only thorn in my side. Just because a character is compared to another, it does not mean they have same powerset. Just look at northstar and quicksilver, similar and often compared but with significant differences.

The thing is he seems to be like the Hulk in almost everyway except being allot weaker. Now given, I am basing his psychic resistance on Hulk's level which is against a Selene level psychic so I was stating that Sampson has a light degree of resistance meaning any psychic attack would not be instantaneously effective but obviously it would not be able to resist a Jean level telepath to any significant degree.

With regards cable's power levels, as i said in my opening argument, he is still one of the most powerful telepaths on the planet, just not quite at jean and x-man's level. I would put him just shy of omega class as this is the period after he worked on his powers with his mother (again need a clarification on this refs)

I agree on that we need a clarification and leave it at that.

Debatable on the resistance (samson can stand much of what is available TODAY but remember that this cable is a time traveller, I'm sure he can find something to hurt Samson.

in 24 hours I am not so sure.....

Secondly, cable would never allow this to come to a fist fight. This guy is the leader of a band of mercenaries and a military genius. He is also possesed of vast telekenetic and telepathic abilities. He would know where Samson is at all time's meaning he could always stay one step ahead of the game. This is a vast city, they are not going to be dropped in 10 paces from each other like high noon. This is guerilla warfare, something cable has vast experience with. He'll have worked out what traps to lay where and use subtle psychic suggestions to send samson where HE wants him to go and then lay him out.

Sampson who has a brilliant mind will be trying to make this into a fist fight, now the issue is whether he willl be able to get the jump on Cable as it is assumed here that Cable gets the jump on Sampson.

The high noon image is quite humourous though


To sum up, depending on Cable's power level this match is either an easy win for cable or a loss. the more this battle is less of a psychic battle then the more likely a win by Samson becomes probable.

 

[Phaedrus45]

I could too, but the fact remains... they haven't thus far... therefor, he can't. If voters think he can, then let them vote for that, but I don't think he can if not having been shown doing it by now (how long's he been around?)

Also, most poeple that can fly are cosmic characters to begin with and are made for it, or have powers that can propell them (such as Firestar). I'm sure there's exceptions to the rules, but that's just bad writing, not really character traits.

To me, he's an android with wings, and just hasn't had the opportunity to use this method. Heck, if he's going away from the battle and his small brain realizes his wings aren't working, he can use the fire from his mouth to blow him back to the Asteroid. Either way, Spidey is pretty much going to be playing "avoid-the-nasty-dragon," and even he cannot stop the destruction of Asteroid M from eventually getting to him. He won't know how to shut down certain areas of Asteroid M if the vacuum of space is blowing into the local. And, the extreme fires from Dragon Man can incinerate Spidey quite easily. (If we want to discuss the true nature of space and how it would effect various characters in real life, the vacuum of space blowing into Asteroid M would pretty much destroy all life in that particular area and areas around it. And, the fires blowing down the corridors, engulfing everything around them, would prove quite deadly, too.)

Basically, this is not an easy match for Spider-Man (or, Dragon Man, for that matter). He is facing a foe who really cannot be hurt too much by much of anything Spidey can do. Plus, Dragon Man can lift 100 tons and take over 300 lbs. of TNT and not have it damage him. Also, while Dragon Man isn't very smart at all, this location truly hurts Spider-Man. He can only run so far, and all Dragon Man needs is his desire to kill Spidey to fuel him on to victory.

Winner = Dragon Man

 

[hippy fascist]

No problem, I actually had no internet connection this weekend due to cable issues in my neighbourhood.

As luck would have it...

Glad you have him then........except I wish it was not against me

pfft

This is where I was not clear and my posting was based on what I thought. First of all, however, even though Cable is more powerful then what I originally estimated he is not at X-Man's level and the techno-organic virus takes more out of Cable then what adamantium does out of Wolverine. This is evident by how he was when he was cured and how effective Wolverine's healing fctor was when he lost the adamantium. The difference was considerably greater with Cable.

The metaphor I'm willing to let slide but the power levels I am totally certain about. I've pm'd JH to give us an official ruling. Until we get that I can't see any point in debating cable's levels

I am fin with that.

This is where I disagree, I do admit that cable does have the advantage but I wish to put forward that Sampson will have good knowledge of Cable based on all his resources.

Could go either way but I'll let this one slide

Sampson can withstand tank shells and cable does not have a hand held gun that will cause more damage unless I am missing something. The thing is this tactic actually gives Sampson an adavantage as he is a brilliant strategist himself and would be wary of any ambush. Plus physically he is clearly Cable's superiour.

I don't doubt he's cable's physical superior but RE the weapons. You can't compare todays weapons to what cable has. Most of his arsenal will be (as I said) from hundreds of years in the future. You don't think weapon tech has developed to the point where personal anti-tank weapons are readily available

This strategy is the main question in this debate. Based on Cable's level, he either takes this easy or he loses badly. Normally, one hit from Sampson would be enough to put Cable down. Then again a psychic blast of sufficient power would put Sampson down.

Samspn does have some degree of resisitance even though there is nothing I can show as evidence here. His level of resistance would be light though.

Without evidence I'd need a ruling on that. I've not been able to find a single reference to it so I'm either gonna need to see some scans or a judges ruling. If it was something minor I'd let it slip but since this is kind of a key point I'm gonna have to hold my ground on this one. I can't find a single reference to it in all the bios I've read of him (7 incidentally ) so unless you can bring some evidence to the table I think this point should be disregarded

WINNER: CABLE!

 

[hippy fascist]

this point is debatable and can only be settled by the authorities. I leave it uop to them.

Agreed

Ok I know you have the advantage here but its only fair.

Thank you

The thing is he seems to be like the Hulk in almost everyway except being allot weaker. Now given, I am basing his psychic resistance on Hulk's level which is against a Selene level psychic so I was stating that Sampson has a light degree of resistance meaning any psychic attack would not be instantaneously effective but obviously it would not be able to resist a Jean level telepath to any significant degree.

This doesn't hold up. Saying a character seems to be like another does not make them the same. It's like comparing firelord and human torch. Just because they can both set their bodies on fire doesn't mean Johnny currently has access to the power cosmic. This is all supposition based on zero evidence and as a result I don't feel it should be counted when voters make their decisions.

I agree on that we need a clarification and leave it at that.

Fair play

in 24 hours I am not so sure.....

Time travel negates this ruling. He could spend three years in another time and come back 1 minute after he left.

Sampson who has a brilliant mind will be trying to make this into a fist fight, now the issue is whether he willl be able to get the jump on Cable as it is assumed here that Cable gets the jump on Sampson.

Samson has a brilliant mind but it's not a military mind. He is very clever but part of spotting traps is learning to see paterns in your surroundings. You can't work out where a trip wire will be placed through statistical analysis. This just doesn't hold up. He won't fall for stupid traps but cable will have enough experience to put a little bluff and double-bluff in when setting them up. Samson just lacks the experience in this field

Also with cable's telepathy Samson won't be able to get close enough to cable to launch a physcial attack. Cable with either sense his presence and fry his mind or move in order to prevent detection. It's like the world's best security system but without the human error.

The high noon image is quite humourous though

It would indeed be awesome

To sum up, depending on Cable's power level this match is either an easy win for cable or a loss. the more this battle is less of a psychic battle then the more likely a win by Samson becomes probable.

I'd agree with that although even without his powers I think cable would stand a good chance if he could keep the fight ranged. Either way, as you say it comes down to power levels. I put cable somewhere around non-phoenix jean. That is up to JewHobs to decide though

WINNER: CABLE!

 

[JewishHobbit]

I know his power level but I've been thinking of the timeframe that it's from. I've said the TWELVE timeframe before, but that wasn't actually it because he was severely limited at that time. I'm thinking closer to the time period of ONSLAUGHT/Operation Zero Tolerance when he still had the T.O. virus to worry about, but had great telepathy and telekinesis. So officially, Cable is the version from Zero Tolerance. We'll just dubb him from that time frame as well and go with it. At that time he was a very strong telepath along the same lines as Jean Grey. So to give you some perspective, here's where I would put him in a list:

Nate Grey

Cable/Jean (non-phoenix)

Psylocke/Rachel

Xavier's powers fluxuate quite a bit so I didn't include him. I hope the above listing does clarify though. This Cable is very much a powerhouse in the telepathy and telekinesis department.

 

[hippy fascist]

I know his power level but I've been thinking of the timeframe that it's from. I've said the TWELVE timeframe before, but that wasn't actually it because he was severely limited at that time. I'm thinking closer to the time period of ONSLAUGHT/Operation Zero Tolerance when he still had the T.O. virus to worry about, but had great telepathy and telekinesis. So officially, Cable is the version from Zero Tolerance. We'll just dubb him from that time frame as well and go with it. At that time he was a very strong telepath along the same lines as Jean Grey. So to give you some perspective, here's where I would put him in a list:

Nate Grey

Cable/Jean (non-phoenix)

Psylocke/Rachel

Xavier's powers fluxuate quite a bit so I didn't include him. I hope the above listing does clarify though. This Cable is very much a powerhouse in the telepathy and telekinesis department.

Awesome, thanks man!

 

[Ahura Mazda]

I know his power level but I've been thinking of the timeframe that it's from. I've said the TWELVE timeframe before, but that wasn't actually it because he was severely limited at that time. I'm thinking closer to the time period of ONSLAUGHT/Operation Zero Tolerance when he still had the T.O. virus to worry about, but had great telepathy and telekinesis. So officially, Cable is the version from Zero Tolerance. We'll just dubb him from that time frame as well and go with it. At that time he was a very strong telepath along the same lines as Jean Grey. So to give you some perspective, here's where I would put him in a list:

Nate Grey

Cable/Jean (non-phoenix)

Psylocke/Rachel

Xavier's powers fluxuate quite a bit so I didn't include him. I hope the above listing does clarify though. This Cable is very much a powerhouse in the telepathy and telekinesis department.

Based on the above, Sampson having been turned into a vegetable by Cable has only one hope, falling on a self destruct mechanism that causes planet M to explode.......yes, yes I know He loses

Well done Hippy

 

[WOLVERINE25TH]

ABOMINATION vs. JUGGERNAUT

Battle of the Titans! Both have gone up against the Hulk, both are strong as hell and both can give/take a beating. Abomination is twice as strong as Hulk when he's CALM and can regenerate, so even though he takes damage won't be long until it's repaired. This battle basically comes down to how strong one thinks the asteroid is. Both of them would pummel each other through the corridors and floors and even the rock itself. Both would use environmental objects for ranged attacks and both would fight dirty. Both can also survive in a vacuum to some degree, so the real question is who would be able to knock the other so far into space they won't have a chance of getting back to the asteroid? It can go either way, but I say Abomination would club Juggie into next Tuesday. He doesn't have to knock him out, just send him so far off the rock he's forever at the mercy of space.

IN SPACE, NO ONE CAN HEAR JUGGIE SCREAM!

WINNER: ABOMINATION

 

[hippy fascist]

Based on the above, Sampson having been turned into a vegetable by Cable has only one hope, falling on a self destruct mechanism that causes planet M to explode.......yes, yes I know He loses

Well done Hippy

You are as always, a true gentleman

 

[Phaedrus45]

Voting May Begin!!!

(Remember, you must read through all of this weeks debates before voting. The debates should be the largest percentage of reason for the way you vote; but, they do not have to be the sole reason for your decision.)

 

[hippy fascist]

Spiderman (going into this i couldn't see a way for spidey to win but jewhobs convinced me! I'm willing to bet every door on that place is an airlock)

Mimic (I love may, but she'd get pwned by mimic)

Cable

Juggernaut (Hard but in the end the abomination has some resistance to the vacuum of space, juggs doesn't need to breathe. Nine times out of ten Juggs is gonna win this one)

 

[DarkHellRider]

Mimic- just has the advantage with all his powers
Doc-strength is the advantage so he could take it
Jugernaut_my character
spider-man-his intelligence overall would give him the edge and the win IMO

 

[Phaedrus45]

*Dragon Man

*Juggernaut-Villian

*Mimic-Exiles

*Cable-telepath

 

[Harlekin]

Spider-Man - Great debate, but I think the whole space thing works in Spidey's favour.
Juggernaut
Mimic (Exiles)
Cable