Contest of Marvels II Thread 2

[Phaedrus45]

Was that from the most recent 2006 OHMU? The one that's last issue was published after the contest started. That means technically you can't use it.

Actually, we've allowed Handbooks; as it gives accurate information regarding certain characters whose traits are questionable. We've done it this week with Drax, we did it before with Terrax, and can use it for Union Jack. Basically, we're using New Invaders Union Jack, which is much, much different from Knights of Pendragon Union Jack. We cannot use "current storylines;" but, this isn't current storylines. It just gives readers a good indication of a character's power levels. It neither helps or hinders the contest. It only lets us the voters know who the character is in the eyes of Marvel Comics.

I will consult JH on this, though. Like I said, we've allowed this in the past, as it just helps out with understanding the character.

Ok so how exactlycan Gideon use Super Strength, Stamina, and regen in "new ways"

I'm not saying how, it's just a fact that he can use another character's powers in ways they never realized. (Kind of like how Emma Frost was able to tap into Iceman's abilities, and she realized he hasn't even tapped into what he's capable of.)

Wait so no one's allowed to use Avenger's files? UJ isn't a member but I thought we were allowed to use the files available to us? I might've just misread your statement. Ok so Union Jack doesn't have info on Gideon and I doubt Gideon could find more then basics on UJ.

Avengers currently in rotation can use Avengers files. Reservist Avengers can use them. (I won't say all Avengers reservists would have access. Some characters, like Darkhawk, really weren't affiliated with Avengers (West Coast) for very long, and I'd argue his abilities to gain access to all Avenger's files.) But, as stated, Union Jack clearly isn't associated with the Avengers.

With Gideon, he's shown his in depth knowledge of superpowered individuals, is affiliated with the Externals, and has many resources at his disposal. In my mind, it would be no problem finding out information about Union Jack.

Yes but he would need to get files from someone who's worked with or fought along UJ. Just because he's loved in UK doesn't mean they all know the extent of his powers.

As stated, Gideon is an External and someone who's kept close tabs on many, many superpowered individuals. I sincerly believe he'd have more than a little knowledge of who Union Jack is. And, even if he didn't, the minute Union Jack got into Gideon's proximity, he'd know everything about Union Jack's abilities and how to use them better.

If you're shooting point blank at a guy and nothing's happening I think he would start for the killshots. Now in his 98 mini (I had the wrong year). It shows him beating Baron Blood and taking on six vampires that had the jump on him. Now some of the items he was using were:

.455 7-shot pistol
Silver-bladed dagger
Silver wire (decapitation)

Now in the Invaders series (and the Avengers arc leading up to it:

Unidentified automatic fire arm
Tear gas grenades
Paches with unidentified contents

He also wears a bulletproof, fire ******ent, and knife resistant mask and suit. A latter mask he wears also doubles as a gas mask. So this isn't as one-sided.

But, the difference is 1) Union Jack isn't fighting a vampire, and 2) Gideon will realize that this is the type of stuff that Union Jack will bring to a fight. It's obvious to me he'll be prepared with the correct powers to not be hurt physically. (Plus, he picked up many External powers, as he fought them too at times.)

Now the question is his limits, can he hold only six powers at a time or six peoples? You can choose from the powers listed above but I'll let you decide between individual powers and overall peoples powers.

Also I'd like you to take into consideration exactly who he was fighting. A newbie team of teenagers and a group of wild X-men wannabes without their leader (cable). Let's face while they aren't pushovers these groups were newly formed and one was missing it's leader when he beat them.

First, from the New Warrior's comics and X-Force comics I looked at, he copied multiple powers from each individual. So, it would seem to be six people's powers. (I don't think the writers thought of it as separate powers within an individual. He's basically storing a character's abilities.)

Second, he was facing the group with Cable as their leader. These are the Leifeld characters from the early part of X-Force, starting with New Mutants 98 - about X-Force 22.

Winner = Gideon

 

[Hellstormer]

Actually, we've allowed Handbooks; as it gives accurate information regarding certain characters whose traits are questionable. We've done it this week with Drax, we did it before with Terrax, and can use it for Union Jack. Basically, we're using New Invaders Union Jack, which is much, much different from Knights of Pendragon Union Jack. We cannot use "current storylines;" but, this isn't current storylines. It just gives readers a good indication of a character's power levels. It neither helps or hinders the contest. It only lets us the voters know who the character is in the eyes of Marvel Comics.

I will consult JH on this, though. Like I said, we've allowed this in the past, as it just helps out with understanding the character.

I figured I just felt like being a smartass this morning.

With Gideon, he's shown his in depth knowledge of superpowered individuals, is affiliated with the Externals, and has many resources at his disposal. In my mind, it would be no problem finding out information about Union Jack.

As stated, Gideon is an External and someone who's kept close tabs on many, many superpowered individuals. I sincerly believe he'd have more than a little knowledge of who Union Jack is. And, even if he didn't, the minute Union Jack got into Gideon's proximity, he'd know everything about Union Jack's abilities and how to use them better.

OK from what I read on the Externals all the members are well dead except for Selene. So exactly where is he getting his information? I can understand basic info from his company.

But, the difference is 1) Union Jack isn't fighting a vampire, and 2) Gideon will realize that this is the type of stuff that Union Jack will bring to a fight. It's obvious to me he'll be prepared with the correct powers to not be hurt physically. (Plus, he picked up many External powers, as he fought them too at times.)

When Jack see's how disfigured he is and how damage resistant he is, and the fact that Jack isn't the smartest bloke around, he might assume he's a supernatural entity, which will remove his morals that you've been speaking of.

First, from the New Warrior's comics and X-Force comics I looked at, he copied multiple powers from each individual. So, it would seem to be six people's powers. (I don't think the writers thought of it as separate powers within an individual. He's basically storing a character's abilities.)

Ok so tell me which characters he'd use and I'll figure out what Jack would think of on the field.

Second, he was facing the group with Cable as their leader. These are the Leifeld characters from the early part of X-Force, starting with New Mutants 98 - about X-Force 22.

Actually no, Cable wasn't with them when they were fighting Gideon.

I think that's Cable and he doesn't look well.

I don't see Cable

I'm not positive but from the looks up the covers I don't see Cable. I'll go look for those issues and get back to you.

 

[JewishHobbit]

I think the handbooks are fine, provided their listing doesn't contradict the stories that are going on currently (thus after when we started). In the matter of Union Jack, I don't see anything that you've typed about the handbook contradicting his current character thus far.

If I read your guys' argument correctly, the handbook says he no longer has the Pentagon powers (or whatever they're called). That will stand provided he didn't have them at the time of the New Invaders series. If he lost them afterwords, then he'll still have them in the tourney. The wiki bio doesn't specify and I don't follow the character so I'm not sure exactly, but what I said above stands for whichever situation is true.

If I'm missing anything that needs addressed let me know. I think this covers it though.

 

[Hellstormer]

I think the handbooks are fine, provided their listing doesn't contradict the stories that are going on currently (thus after when we started). In the matter of Union Jack, I don't see anything that you've typed about the handbook contradicting his current character thus far.

If I read your guys' argument correctly, the handbook says he no longer has the Pentagon powers (or whatever they're called). That will stand provided he didn't have them at the time of the New Invaders series. If he lost them afterwords, then he'll still have them in the tourney. The wiki bio doesn't specify and I don't follow the character so I'm not sure exactly, but what I said above stands for whichever situation is true.

If I'm missing anything that needs addressed let me know. I think this covers it though.

Well see the thing is in the Inader's comic he seems to demonstrate super strength (ie tearing apart a mechanical crap thing) and some regen (healing a broken rib in a few hour) but I'm fairly certain he lost he stopped working with the Pendragon but the effects may be residual.. I'm not positive. O and I have a handbook from the 80s that has UJ's powers listed as "Currently peak human strength and stamina" so I think that means your debate about it only happen recently is null/void.

 

[JewishHobbit]

Okay, then how about this. What he was shown doing in the New Invaders series, have that what he can do. If he can heal quickly, let him heal quickly, and if he has the level of strength to break, say, metal or mechanical things, then so be it. If we can't know for sure how they work, I think it's best to just go with what we do know.

Does this sound fair? (again, I don't know the character well so it's hard to say, but in my head it seems decent)

 

[Phaedrus45]

From what I understand, he does have the Pendragon power; it's just not to the extent when he was in Knights of the Pendragon.

As for if Cable was around, he was. Gideon first appeared in New Mutants 98...I saw him (I believe with the Gamesmaster) in the annuals where the New Mutants and X-Force teamed up. So, Cable was with the team.

OK from what I read on the Externals all the members are well dead except for Selene. So exactly where is he getting his information? I can understand basic info from his company.

Gideon was killed by Selene. But, before that, he hanged around with the Externals. He even copied one of their powers in Issue #12.

When Jack see's how disfigured he is and how damage resistant he is, and the fact that Jack isn't the smartest bloke around, he might assume he's a supernatural entity, which will remove his morals that you've been speaking of.

But, it will be just like his match with the New Warriors. By the time Union Jack realizes what he's up against, it will be too late.

Ok so tell me which characters he'd use and I'll figure out what Jack would think of on the field.

One of my reasons for not picking exact powers is to show that Union Jack would be unaware of what to do. He won't know what to expect in this match; and, just as you won't be aware of the powers he's capable of, neither will Union Jack.

 

[JewishHobbit]

From what I understand, he does have the Pendragon power; it's just not to the extent when he was in Knights of the Pendragon.

That coincides with what was said he did in New Invaders, so let's go with it. Use the powers, but understand that it's to a lesser degree. Emphasis on what we've seen in New Invaders, loosely on what we haven't.

As for if Cable was around, he was. Gideon first appeared in New Mutants 98...I saw him (I believe with the Gamesmaster) in the annuals where the New Mutants and X-Force teamed up. So, Cable was with the team.

Kings of Pain.... that was a great story! One of my favorate actually. And it was Toad, not Gamesmaster.

 

[Hellstormer]

Yah I finally unlocked Silver Surfer and Black Widow on Marvel Ultimate Alliance

From what I understand, he does have the Pendragon power; it's just not to the extent when he was in Knights of the Pendragon.

Ok that would make sense. So he has slightly enhanced strength, speed, stamin, and some regen.

As for if Cable was around, he was. Gideon first appeared in New Mutants 98...I saw him (I believe with the Gamesmaster) in the annuals where the New Mutants and X-Force teamed up. So, Cable was with the team.

I was not aware of this I'll have to go look.

Gideon was killed by Selene. But, before that, he hanged around with the Externals. He even copied one of their powers in Issue #12.

Right and he's taken before he's dead so the External base would still mbe around meaning he would have files. Ok makes sense, but I still don't think he would have good files on UJ he didn't make many appearences during the 90s and before that he only showed up a few times outside of the UK. So he might have some information.

But, it will be just like his match with the New Warriors. By the time Union Jack realizes what he's up against, it will be too late.

Not neccesarily if he knows he's in a battle and he has to win the survival side of UJ would kick in and go full blast trying to dodge, hide, and evade till he can make his move.

One of my reasons for not picking exact powers is to show that Union Jack would be unaware of what to do. He won't know what to expect in this match; and, just as you won't be aware of the powers he's capable of, neither will Union Jack.

Yes but if you tell me what powers he would bring I'll be able to say what UJ would be able to do on the field, not before.

 

[Phaedrus45]

Right and he's taken before he's dead so the External base would still mbe around meaning he would have files. Ok makes sense, but I still don't think he would have good files on UJ he didn't make many appearences during the 90s and before that he only showed up a few times outside of the UK. So he might have some information.

Probably my last response. By now, we're just going around and round. Sure, he might not have a full file on Union Jack (although, Knights Of Pendragon was before Gideon's death). But, as pointed out, there have been two previous versions, and they would be well-known. They are so similiar, Gideon will realize he's facing someone who's very good at hand-to-hand combat and uses a variety of weapons, including guns and knives.

 

[Hellstormer]

Probably my last response. By now, we're just going around and round. Sure, he might not have a full file on Union Jack (although, Knights Of Pendragon was before Gideon's death). But, as pointed out, there have been two previous versions, and they would be well-known. They are so similiar, Gideon will realize he's facing someone who's very good at hand-to-hand combat and uses a variety of weapons, including guns and knives.

Yea I thought the same so I figured I would do one more rebuttal then end it. I'll freely admit Union Jack is against a tough opponent, mainly because of the amount of powers he has, but Union Jack has pulled some pretty extreme victories out of his ass so anything's possible.

 

[Phaedrus45]

Pulling stuff out of his butt??!!?? That just might work...I mean, the shock would make Gideon so surprised, that.....


Anyway, yeah, I'll sign off then. Good debate, Hellstormer!

 

[DarkHellRider]

]

Match 24:

Colossus (JEWISHHOBBIT) bio

vs.

Blade (DARKHELLRIDER) bio

True it would seeem that Colossus would have the advantage here but Blade it part vampire he has all the strenghts. WHich means he has increased strenght increased speed increased stamina and endurance and a regenative power. He also has many a weapon most will have more effect on a vampire. All blade has to do is keep on the move staying in close to collossus avoiding his attackes colossus would wear out before blade. just all he would have to do is keep attacking until colussos wears out Blade should take him. It would would be a tough match but Blade could win.

Winner=blade

 

[Phaedrus45]

Voting May Begin!!!

(Remember, you must read through all of this weeks debates before voting. The debates should be the largest percentage of reason for the way you vote; but, they do not have to be the sole reason for your decision.)

 

[hippy fascist]

Carrion (overpowered)

Nightcrawler (nightcrawler could bamf to thew otherside of the station the second any cracks started showing up in the walls)

Colossus (balde would be hard pressed to pierce his skin when powered up)

Gideon (overpowered)

 

[Phaedrus45]

*Carrion

*Colossus

*Nightcrawler

*Gideon

 

[DarkHellRider]

Carrion

Blade

Nightcrawler

Gideon

 

[Harlekin]

Carrion
Colossus
Nightcrawler
Gideon - Nice try though.

 

[wiegeabo]

Carrion
Colossus
Nightcrawler
Gideon (Tough for anyone to beat)

 

[WOLVERINE25TH]

Carrion
Colossus
Nightcrawler
Gideon

 

[kytrigger]

Carrion
Colossus
Nightcrawler
Gideon

 

[Hellstormer]

Gideon (being honest sucks )
Nightcrawler (not so much here.)
Carrion
Colossus

 

[Phaedrus45]

Results So Far:

Carrion currently beating Wildchild 8-0
Colossus currently beating Blade 7-1
Nightcrawler currently beating Jack O-Lantern 8-0
Gideon currently beating Union Jack 8-0

 

[Zoken]

Carrion
Colossus
Nightcrawler
Gideon

 

[Darren Daring]

Carrion
Colossus
Nightcrawler
Gideon

 

[JewishHobbit]

Carrion
Colossus
Nightcrawler
Gideon