Contest of Marvels II Thread 2

[Zoken]

Jim Hammond Vs. Morbius

This will be an easy match, not because of the opponent, but because of my character's physiology, and my opponent's physiology. For starters, Morbius cannot feed off of Hammond as he is not organic in any way. secondly, his ability to generate fire gives him a two-fold advantage. If we are fighting in the day time, it's redundant, but if we fight at night, It will generate light that will harm Morbius' photo-sensitive skin. second of all... he can torch him. I'm sorry, but not just as a vampire, but as an organic being, Morbius is suseptable to fire. The torch can burn him.

Without a ready supply of victims to feed from (the few beings on the island are in hiding and not easy to find) he won't be able to heal as quickly as he could if he were in a highly populated place. The Torch just has to get to him and keep the heat on. Jim Hammond if he isn't immune to the hypnotic effect by being synthetic, will be immune by will as he is obviously a strong willed person.

 

[JewishHobbit]

*Wallflower-HoM - (Wallflower wins this because 1) Absorbing Man won't know a thing about her, and 2) He'll see such a small, tiny girl, and that will make him waaay overconfident at the beginning.)

*Shatterstar

*Gamesmaster

*Gorgon - (Jesse's powers work with humans. As Hellstormer points out, Gorgon is a Inhuman...plus, Gorgon wouldn't be such a ***** and lay on the floor screaming because his leg gets hurt.)

Not that I'm complaining, being that I won, but Jesse's powers work on Aliens as well as humans, thus Inhumans shouldn't be that much of a problem. And it isn't that Gorgon would just lie down because he's in pain, he'll be immoble because he won't be able to stand or walk or anything. And like I said, he can try to fight on his hands, but that only goes so far.... or until Jesse 'breaks' them too.

 

[Harlekin]

OPENING COMMENTS: Baron Zemo vs Man-Wolf

The most important thing to note before we start this match is this: Baron Zemo has the two moonstones. This version of Zemo ranges up to Thunderbolts #105, which came out this contest started, but is the end of the Civil War arc (where it pertains to the Thunderbolts anyway). This is significant because this Zemo is vastly more powerful than the normal, average Zemo, who, while a tactical and scientific genius, has no real superhuman qualities to him.

Baron Zemo has the definite prep-time advantage here, since he works for the government and has access to their files on heroes (at least the unregistered ones) and villains alike. Man-Wolf however, being as feral as he is, won't care for researching his opponent, nor would he have the sufficient resources to look up adequate info on Baron Zemo.

Then there's the fact that Man-Wolf can do absolutely nothing against Zemo:
- Zemo can manipulate gravity, so he can bring down (or up) Man-Wolf.
- The moonstones can be used to phase, allowing him to walk through Man-Wolf's attack easily.
- He can easily create a forcefield strong enough to withstand Man-Wolf's blows.

Now the things that Zemo can do to Man-Wolf however:
- Knock him out by flinging him helplessly about with his gravity power.
- Tire Man-Wolf out and just increase his strength with gravity to knock him out.
- Teleport Man-Wolf away. He has shown such fine control in this aspect, that he was even able to teleport the Thunderbolts into of Moonstone's molecules, sending them into the Microverse.
- Teleport Man-Wolf to a specific point in time and trap him there.
- Severe Man-Wolf's physical forms via spatial rifts.

There are numerous strategies the good Baron can and won't hesitate to use against his foe. Man-Wolf doesn't stand a chance.

WINNER=BARON ZEMO

 

[wiegeabo]

Man-Wolf vs Baron Zemo

Admittedly a tough match for Jameson. With his technological connections he can probably find out about Man-Wolf, although I doubt he'd know everything about his powers. And Jameson should be able to get some kind of information about Zemo. At least what info is public on him.

Zemo has access to a lot of technology. And the genius to use it. But John has the abilities of the Stargod. These include telepathy and energy manipulation. I doubt Zemo would know of these abilities and more likely prepare for Man-Wolf's other powers.

Therefore, when the battle starts, Zemo will not have prepared for John's telepathy. This gives John the chance to learn everything Zemo is planning. And John's ability to manipulate energy and fire blasts gives him the means to fight off whatever Zemo is throwing at him.

The edge that gives Man-Wolf the win is his telepathy. With it, he can avoid any traps Zemo has prepared, and put the element of surprise on his side. No doubt this is going to be a tough fight, but Jameson has had tough battles before. And Zemo's lack of information during prep-time is going to hurt him more than he realizes.


Man-Wolf wins

 

[wiegeabo]

Baron Zemo has the definite prep-time advantage here, since he works for the government and has access to their files on heroes (at least the unregistered ones) and villains alike. Man-Wolf however, being as feral as he is, won't care for researching his opponent, nor would he have the sufficient resources to look up adequate info on Baron Zemo.

This information would have Man-Wolf's old abilities. But would it also include his Stargod powers? Powers that allow him to maintain his intelligence while in lupine form.

Then there's the fact that Man-Wolf can do absolutely nothing against Zemo:
- Zemo can manipulate gravity, so he can bring down (or up) Man-Wolf.
- The moonstones can be used to phase, allowing him to walk through Man-Wolf's attack easily.
- He can easily create a forcefield strong enough to withstand Man-Wolf's blows.

Even manipulating gravity and Jameson's ability to move, it wouldn't stop his energy blasts.

He'd still have to land his attacks, even phased. And there's no guarantee that he still be able to avoid John's energy attacks.

Blocking John's physical blows, yes, but his energy blows too?

Now the things that Zemo can do to Man-Wolf however:
- Knock him out by flinging him helplessly about with his gravity power.
- Tire Man-Wolf out and just increase his strength with gravity to knock him out.
- Teleport Man-Wolf away. He has shown such fine control in this aspect, that he was even able to teleport the Thunderbolts into of Moonstone's molecules, sending them into the Microverse.
- Teleport Man-Wolf to a specific point in time and trap him there.
- Severe Man-Wolf's physical forms via spatial rifts.

There are numerous strategies the good Baron can and won't hesitate to use against his foe. Man-Wolf doesn't stand a chance.

The gravity power may keep Man-Wolf at bay physically, but not his energy.

All other strategies require thought. Thoughts that Man-Wolf will pick up with his telepathy. Giving him the ability to anticipate what is coming and adapt.

Man-Wolf wins

 

[Harlekin]

REBUTTAL: Baron Zemo vs Man-Wolf/Stargod

Zemo has access to a lot of technology. And the genius to use it. But John has the abilities of the Stargod. These include telepathy and energy manipulation. I doubt Zemo would know of these abilities and more likely prepare for Man-Wolf's other powers.

It seems you are correct (I checked issue numbers together with the start of the competition). I'd like to see this reflected in the character's name so as to avoid confusion though. Man-Wolf is easily weaker than Stargod.

Therefore, when the battle starts, Zemo will not have prepared for John's telepathy. This gives John the chance to learn everything Zemo is planning. And John's ability to manipulate energy and fire blasts gives him the means to fight off whatever Zemo is throwing at him.

Thing is Zemo doesn't "throw stuff at him", Zemo simply picks him and severes his body parts and then deposits them in seperate pieces of time. The moment he learns of Stargod's telepathy (strong-willed characters like Zemo know when their mind is being probed), he'll throw up adequate defenses using the moonstones.

The edge that gives Man-Wolf the win is his telepathy. With it, he can avoid any traps Zemo has prepared, and put the element of surprise on his side. No doubt this is going to be a tough fight, but Jameson has had tough battles before. And Zemo's lack of information during prep-time is going to hurt him more than he realizes.

Even if you know what the opponent can do, doesn't mean you can avoid it. Stargod won't be fast enough to escape Zemo's manipulation of gravity. Zemo will also be in the air, giving him a better overview of the situation.

Even manipulating gravity and Jameson's ability to move, it wouldn't stop his energy blasts.

That's what his forcefield is for. Zemo can multi-task terrificly well. While using his powers to manipulate Moonstone's body (attacking the Thunderbolts and not just by firing energy blasts) while also controlling the dead body of Blackout.

He'd still have to land his attacks, even phased. And there's no guarantee that he still be able to avoid John's energy attacks.

Enough of a garantuee since his moonstones can work outside of his being phased. Even then, his forcefields, phasing and gravity control will be enough to withstand anything Stargod can throw at him.

Blocking John's physical blows, yes, but his energy blows too?

Yep.

The gravity power may keep Man-Wolf at bay physically, but not his energy.

Which Zemo's forcefields will be able to deflect.

All other strategies require thought. Thoughts that Man-Wolf will pick up with his telepathy. Giving him the ability to anticipate what is coming and adapt.

I don't see how he can adapt to any of those strategies. Zemo can take control of his body using gravity just like that, and he certainly won't be able to dodge teleportation or anything like that.

Zemo may seem a little cheap with the phasing and the gravity and the like, but those are his powers now, and he knows to use them extremely well. I will admit that Stargod's telepathy will aid him but it will ultimately be futile.

WINNER=BARON ZEMO

 

[Phaedrus45]

Super Skrull vs. Wonder Man:

First, the bio on Super Skrull isn't very good. Here is the bio of his powers from the current Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe:

Kl'rt possessed all the powers of the Fantastic Four; self-stretching, plasma/flame control and flight, invisibility and invisible force fields, and great strength and durability. He could use these powers singly or together. He also possessed the natural Skrullian ability to alter his shape and mass at will, and had the power of instantaneous super-hypnotism. He could survive in space and other hostile environments through a combination of his racial abilities and his superpowers, even somehow using his flame powers in space. His body currently taps cosmic energy to fuel his special powers, but Skrullian asteroid facilities originally channeled this energy to him in beams through a network of stargates. When fully charged, Kl'rt's powers surpassed the individual members of the Fantastic Four, but when uncharged, he held each power at about half the strength that the Fantastic Four did.

(On a level of 1-7)

Strength 6
Speed 5
Durability 6
Energy Projection 6
Fighting Skills 4


Wonder Man:

Wonder Man possesses superhuman strength, durability, stamina as well as the power of flight. The tissue and bones of his entire body have been augmented in strength and to a certain extent supplanted by an unknown substance during the "ionic ray" bombardment. Despite Wonder Man's statements that he is composed of "ionic energy," he is actually composed of organic matter that is permeated with this form of energy. His superhuman stamina enables him to exert himself at peak level for up to one half hour before fatigue poisons build up in his blood, causing him to tire. His skin and tissue is hard enough to enable him to resist virtually any form of penetration wound. He can withstand temperature extremes from -150 degrees to 1500 degrees Fahrenheit without any harm. He no longer requires food, water, or air, since the energy that gives him life is far more efficient and self-sustaining than the biochemical processes that sustain ordinary human life. Despite his various invulnerabilities, it still is possible to render him unconscious by a sufficiently powerful force. He still possesses nerve ending which allow him to feel pain at certain level. Because of the energy empowering him, Wonder Man no longer ages.


Both characters will know about the other, and this will definitely be a knock-down, dragged out fight. Now, since there is prep-time, Super Srull will definitely make sure his body is fully tapped with the cosmic powers that makes him stronger than the Fantastic Four. This puts Wonder Man at a big disadvantage; because, as most voters will realize, this match could go on for hours and hours. The problem lies in Wonder Man's biography that states "his superhuman stamina enables him to exert himself at peak level for up to one half hour before fatigue poisons build up in his blood, causing him to tire." Since this battle will definitely go over a half hour, Super Skrull now takes the advantage. He can use an of the four abilities of the Fantastic Four to win after this happens...or, even before.

Winner = Super Skrull

 

[Phaedrus45]

Rebuttal:

Super Skrull is the intial FF4 all rolled up in one.

The bio on Wikipedia is slightly misleading. Super Skrull has progressed in his powers, just as the original Fantastic Four has. As shown above, he even used Cosmic Powers and when at full power, surpasses the current Fantastic Four. This is what Wonder Man will be facing.

Now each would know each other, but Wonderman as an avenger will have more information on Super skrull then what he will have on him.

Actually, Wonder Man, being a member of the Avengers, taking a crucial part in Operation: Galactic Storm, will have an extensive Skrull file on who he is. Simon Williams has fought the Skrulls and the Skrull's files will, more than likely, know enough about him. Plus, both Simon and Super Skrull took part in Galactic Storm. I don't give either an advantage in this regard. They will both know each other well. (And, really, what is there to know that will give either the advantage in this match?)

Super Skrull tends to use his strength, fire abilities, and stretching most of all. He rarely uses force fields. In addition, he has no where near the expertise of Sue.

I've seen him use force fields and invisibility quite often. It's possible he's not as experienced as Sue, and she uses these abilities constantly; but, he still uses them quite frequently.

Wonder Man would try to engage Super Skrull in battle and being stronger, more impervious, and faster would eventually overcome Klyrt. It would be a tough batle but Wonder Man cuold pull it through and take it.

Yes, Wonder Man would engage Super Skrull in battle. But, there are two problems with this statement. First, it's very likely this will be an extensive battle, easily lasting over 1/2 hour, thus making his powers wane. Second, and more importantly, he "has the power of instantaneous super-hypnotism." Eye contact will be very easy to obtain in this match, and the battle can quite easily go to Super Skrull very quickly.

Winner = Super Skrull

 

[Ahura Mazda]

Super Skrull vs. Wonder Man:

First, the bio on Super Skrull isn't very good. Here is the bio of his powers from the current Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe:

Kl'rt possessed all the powers of the Fantastic Four; self-stretching, plasma/flame control and flight, invisibility and invisible force fields, and great strength and durability. He could use these powers singly or together. He also possessed the natural Skrullian ability to alter his shape and mass at will, and had the power of instantaneous super-hypnotism. He could survive in space and other hostile environments through a combination of his racial abilities and his superpowers, even somehow using his flame powers in space. His body currently taps cosmic energy to fuel his special powers, but Skrullian asteroid facilities originally channeled this energy to him in beams through a network of stargates. When fully charged, Kl'rt's powers surpassed the individual members of the Fantastic Four, but when uncharged, he held each power at about half the strength that the Fantastic Four did.

Almost all his battles have been at half the strength of the FF4. Only very recently has he been powerred up in what I thought were minis that were not allowed. If this is not the case I would like it explainned.

In addition, I have the marvel Encyclopedia and it makes absoluely no mention of the cosmic enhancement.

You claim that the the bio on one site is not good because it does not favor the SS and show another which favors SS

Wonder Man:

Wonder Man possesses superhuman strength, durability, stamina as well as the power of flight. The tissue and bones of his entire body have been augmented in strength and to a certain extent supplanted by an unknown substance during the "ionic ray" bombardment. Despite Wonder Man's statements that he is composed of "ionic energy," he is actually composed of organic matter that is permeated with this form of energy. His superhuman stamina enables him to exert himself at peak level for up to one half hour before fatigue poisons build up in his blood, causing him to tire. His skin and tissue is hard enough to enable him to resist virtually any form of penetration wound. He can withstand temperature extremes from -150 degrees to 1500 degrees Fahrenheit without any harm. He no longer requires food, water, or air, since the energy that gives him life is far more efficient and self-sustaining than the biochemical processes that sustain ordinary human life. Despite his various invulnerabilities, it still is possible to render him unconscious by a sufficiently powerful force. He still possesses nerve ending which allow him to feel pain at certain level. Because of the energy empowering him, Wonder Man no longer ages.

In the comics, I have never seen him lose a battle because he was too tired to throw a fist.

Both characters will know about the other, and this will definitely be a knock-down, dragged out fight.

This I agree with completely but not so far that it will be dragged out. Wonder man has super speed which gives him an upper hand and also means the fight will not last as long as many punches can be thrown at super speed then at normal speed.

Plus Super Skrull will be weakenning as he uses his powers and there is no evidence to show Wonderman getting more tired in comics since he gained his ionic form.

Now, since there is prep-time, Super Srull will definitely make sure his body is fully tapped with the cosmic powers that makes him stronger than the Fantastic Four. This puts Wonder Man at a big disadvantage; because, as most voters will realize, this match could go on for hours and hours. The problem lies in Wonder Man's biography that states "his superhuman stamina enables him to exert himself at peak level for up to one half hour before fatigue poisons build up in his blood, causing him to tire." Since this battle will definitely go over a half hour, Super Skrull now takes the advantage. He can use an of the four abilities of the Fantastic Four to win after this happens...or, even before.

The Ionic Wonderman is faster and more powerful then Super Skrull and with his supperiour fighting skills (Simon was trainned by Captain America.

Winner = Wonderman

 

[Ahura Mazda]

Rebuttal:

The bio on Wikipedia is slightly misleading. Super Skrull has progressed in his powers, just as the original Fantastic Four has. As shown above, he even used Cosmic Powers and when at full power, surpasses the current Fantastic Four. This is what Wonder Man will be facing.

It is not shown above. It just shows words froma bio which is often only loosely accurate. And I do not believe that the SS ever used these cosmic enhancements until Annihlation which is not used here as you stated earlier.

Actually, Wonder Man, being a member of the Avengers, taking a crucial part in Operation: Galactic Storm, will have an extensive Skrull file on who he is. Simon Williams has fought the Skrulls and the Skrull's files will, more than likely, know enough about him. Plus, both Simon and Super Skrull took part in Galactic Storm. I don't give either an advantage in this regard. They will both know each other well. (And, really, what is there to know that will give either the advantage in this match?)

I agree with this...both will come prepared.

I've seen him use force fields and invisibility quite often. It's possible he's not as experienced as Sue, and she uses these abilities constantly; but, he still uses them quite frequently.

He was never that effective with them and he got degeated more often then not.

Yes, Wonder Man would engage Super Skrull in battle. But, there are two problems with this statement. First, it's very likely this will be an extensive battle, easily lasting over 1/2 hour, thus making his powers wane. Second, and more importantly, he "has the power of instantaneous super-hypnotism." Eye contact will be very easy to obtain in this match, and the battle can quite easily go to Super Skrull very quickly.

I unfortunately will not have the time to debate further so in comclusion, Wonderman is more powerful then Super Skrull. The question is whether he can defeat klyrt before and if any fatigue toxins become severe enough so as to handicap him. Also the Super SKrull will be losing his cosmic powers, if he has any, as he uses them

Winner = Wonderman

 

[Phaedrus45]

Rebuttal:
It is not shown above. It just shows words froma bio which is often only loosely accurate. And I do not believe that the SS ever used these cosmic enhancements until Annihlation which is not used here as you stated earlier.

Yes, Annihilation cannot be used; but, I don't see anything even in Annihilation saying these are new powers. All I have is this official bio, as Wiki has been stated to be incorrect at times. I just wanted the most up-to-date bio, and this is the one I have. When I get home, I'll read through the full bio and see if it mentions anything.

He was never that effective with them and he got degeated more often then not.

To quote wiki in this area, "Kl'rt's power levels, however, exceeded the originals - he was stronger than Ben Grimm; had superior flight and greater pyrokinetic ability than the Human Torch; exercised better control of invisibility and energiakinesis than Susan Richards; and maintained an ability to stretch beyond that of Mr. Fantastic." Thus, if he has "better control of invisibility and energiakinesis than" the original Susan Richards, I would easily say his abilities to use this aren't going to be that difficult.

I unfortunately will not have the time to debate further so in comclusion, Wonderman is more powerful then Super Skrull. The question is whether he can defeat klyrt before and if any fatigue toxins become severe enough so as to handicap him. Also the Super SKrull will be losing his cosmic powers, if he has any, as he uses them .

As I said, right now I'm not sure about the cosmic powers; but, his Fantastic Four abilities are enough to defeat Wonder Man. There is nothing to state Wonder Man is more powerful than Super Skrull; plus, with a Strength of 6, Super Skrull is very powerful in his own right. Couple Thing's strength with the rest of the Fantastic Four's abilities, you have a character who is can easily handle Wonder Man. (After all, Super Skrull routinely took on all four members of the F4.)

Winner = Super Skrull

 

[Phaedrus45]

double post due to that damn Hype lag

 

[Phaedrus45]

I've researched Super Skrull, and can't find specifics about the Cosmic Powers. I'll accept that it's very possible this could be Annihilation powers that the Handbook is refering to; so, we'll take out these powers. Although, I think that's the least part of his power. I really think Wonder Man's major concern might very well be the power of "instantaneous super-hypnotism."

 

[Phaedrus45]

Voting May Begin!!!

 

[Phaedrus45]

*Man-Wolf

*Jim Hammond

*Super Skrull

*Carol Danvers

 

[Harlekin]

Baron Zemo
Jim Hammond
Super Skrull - I think his versatility should be able to win this.
Carol Danvers

 

[Zoken]

Jim Hammond
Carol Danvers
Super Skrull
Man Wolf

 

[wiegeabo]

Man-Wolf
Jim Hammond
Wonderman (just barely)
Carol Danvers (I really like Jamie too )

 

[Midnight Ice]

Baron Zemo
Jim Hammond
Super Skrull
Carol Danvers(I too like Jamie much more, but this isn't about popularity)

 

[kytrigger]

Jim Hammond
Zemo-those moonstones make him powerful as hell
Carol Danvers
Wonderman-really good debate, and i coudl see it going either way really.

 

[JewishHobbit]

Jim Hammond
Baron Zemo (though good debate with Man-Wolf)
Carol Danvers (I think it's a given that everyone likes Madrox better )
Super Skrull (Very Good debate!)

And a note to Harlekin... If I'm reading your debate correctly, you mention that this version of Zemo is up until the Civil War story because it came out prior to the contest beginning, but we made a rule specifically omiting current storylines, and Civil War overall has been considered not included, including the offshoot storylines. So Zemo would only be up until the issue prior to the Civil War issues (102?). I'm not sure what issues the Civil War issues are, or even if I understood your statement there, but I thought I'd just throw this out there just in case.

 

[Phaedrus45]

Results So Far:

Baron Zemo currently beating Man-Wolf 4-3
Jim Hammond currently beating Morbius 7-0
Super Skrull currently beating Wonder Man 5-2
Carol Danvers currently beating Multiple Man 7-0

 

[hippy fascist]

Man-Wolf: Even with the moonstones, it's freakin' Star-God!

Jim Hammond: bad draw for morbius (+ debate = win)

Wonder Man: Super speed is a very under-rated power

Carol Danvers: But it's up to darth really

 

[Hellstormer]

I really wanna vote for Man-Wolf but I won't be able to read all the debates and vote in all threads.

 

[hippy fascist]

I really wanna vote for Man-Wolf but I won't be able to read all the debates and vote in all threads.

bit of a slow week actually, only about a page worth of debate per thread. Only took about 3-4 minutes per thread to read it all