Contest of Marvels II Thread 4

[JewishHobbit]

Mondo Vs Thor

Okay, when I first started thinking of this match I felt it was pointless. I almost conceided. But then I thought of something so horribly simple that I'm almost embarrased to think it'd work against Thor, but I figure why not, let's give it a shot.

Mondo is a mutant (highly trained in the AoA) who can become one with his environment and move through it, etc. He becomes what he blends with. He can travel through the material and such as if water and does so rather quickly. He is also very durable. Colossus beat him to mush once and he just took a minute to reform himself and all was well. When he died he was stabbed by Sugar Man's tongue, but SM's tongue did other wierd things like that and I would assume that Mondo's death was more a result of SM's tongue than Mondo's inability to take being stabbed. Anyhow, if he was turned to mush, chances are that he can take a little bit of beating from Thor (not much, but enough to last a bit, if it were to come to that).

My thought is that neither character will know about the other, so neither will know what to expect (though I figure with the name of "Thor" Mondo should be able to figure out he's out of his leage). Mondo will blend with his environment, and I'd think just travel underground while watching through it, spying Thor and waiting for him to land. Thor will not know what Mondo's powers are and he has no resources to tell him what they are, so he'd just be looking for Mondo and not finding him. Mondo would follow him underground until Thor lands on top of him, or at least close enough for him to move under him. Mondo will then pull him into the earth and pull him down as far as he possibly can. I'm sure that Thor will struggle, but Mondo is one that's been beat to mush and reformed, so he should be able to take it. Strength isn't going to do much in this setting, no lightning bolts will reach them, and he can't fling his hammer to fly away. Once they are as far down as possible, Mondo will quickly just pack as much dirt and stone around Thor as is near (should only take a few seconds), cementing him in the ground, and then he'll just move back up the earth to the surface.

My thinkings is that with no momentum, Thor can't throw his Hammer to blast his way out. He has strength, but he has no momentum to swing his fists and break his way out (at least it'll take a while). He may try to summon lightning, but it'd just strike trees above him and such, not actually reaching him. He can't spin his hammer or do anything but sit there flexing.

I believe whole heartedly that Thor can get out of this, but I think it'll take enough time to official count him as immobilized. Now I don't know much about Thor, but in my insane mind, I think this will actually work!

Winner - Mondo (AoA)

 

[Harlekin]

OPENING COMMENTS: Thor vs Mondo (AoA)

I like Mondo, really I do, but I'm afraid Thor is a little too out of his league in this case. Prep-time will help neither, since in the AoA there is no Thor, and Mondo (beyond having a bit of a messy continuity) didn't get around much in the superhero scene. The advantage that Thor does have however, is the fact that he'll know Wakanda, as he's friends with the Black Panther and has visited the land before on Avengers business. Knowing the locale will enable Thor to keep Mondo away from "danger zones".

Now, there's powers:

absorb organic or inorganic matter into his body and assimilate its mass and properties into his own molecular structure until the object is later divested completely from his system

Thor is the Norse god of thunder and lightning. Like all Asgardians, Thor is not truly immortal but relies upon periodic consumption of the Golden Apples of Idun to sustain his lifespan, which to date has lasted many millenia.

The strongest of the Norse gods, Thor has performed feats such as lifting part of the World Serpent's mass and hurling the Odinsword, an extra-dimensional object of incredible power, through a Celestial. [14] Thor possesses tremendous superhuman strength rivaling other Marvel powerhouses such as the Hulk, Hercules, and Gladiator. He also possesses godly stamina, is highly resistant to physical injury and possesses superior speed and reflexes. If pressed in battle, Thor is capable of entering into a "berserker rage" which will increase his strength tenfold. [15]

Thor is also a superb hand-to-hand combatant and has mastered a number of weapons such as the war hammer, sword, and mace. Thor is also very cunning and intuitive in battle, with many centuries of experience. Thor possesses two items that assist him in combat: the Belt of Strength and his mystical hammer Mjolnir. The first item doubles Thor's strength, [16] while the second is used for flight; weather control; energy projection; dimensional control; matter manipulation and the most powerful of Thor's offensives, the God Blast [17] and the Anti-Force. [18] Thor also possesses a pair of gauntlets which enable him to wield Mjolnir when using these latter offensives. [19]

[14]=Thor vol. 1, #300
[15]=Thor vol. 1, #502
[16]=First mentioned in Journey Into Mystery vol. 1, #91
[17]=Thor vol. 2, #12
[18]=Thor vol. 2, #25
[19]=Thor vol.1, #381

As you can see, Thor is an incredibly versatile character, also being a lot more versatile than his current opponent. Mondo's powers can be used both offensively and defensively, but neither will really protect him Thor. Thor's endurance is far above any power Mondo can muster, and Thor's strength alone should be enough to break Mondo into little pieces. After all, the Sugar Man killed Mondo through the simple use of his tongue. Mjolnir (and Thor's fists really) are enough to break through anything Mondo can absorb (and incase you doubt that: Mjolnir has dented Captain America's shield before and his energy blasts have destroyed secondary adamantium).

Thor however, will ultimately find out what Mondo's powers are when Mondo goes on the offensive, and that's when Thor can simply use his weather powers. Using rain, lightning, wind etc. Thor can influence the matter Mondo has absorbed, so if he's dirt, Thor can simply call up a blizzard and freeze him into place. For any state Mondo assumes, Thor will be able to conjure up an adequate response. And THIS is just ONE aspect of his powers.

Mondo's a good character, but he's just outclassed here.

WINNER=THOR

 

[Harlekin]

OPENING COMMENTS: Reaper vs Storm

My second match against JewishHobbit this week, this involves a character I mildly care about and one that I really don't like. You can match up the pictures yourself. The powers' of these characters aren't really attuned to one another, and that's where Reaper's advantage lies. With the help of the Weapon X files, Reaper can find out Storm's strengths and weaknesses, while Storm will have to do with outdated X-Men files (Reaper no long has cybernetics for one, and the scythe is now pretty much a part of him for two).

Just like with my opponent Ruckus in the previous round, Reaper has to do this based on one hit. That hit will instantly paralyze his opponent however and cause excruciating pain. Here is where Wakanda will be to Reaper's advantage. Storm will intially try and win this battle from the air, but she will be forced to the ground when she can't find Reaper, who will be hidden in wide jungle of the Wakandas.

Storm may know the area, but even then, she will have to walk through its jungles without a quick escape route (trees will block any of those), and have to rely on her training and instincts. These are formidable yes, but somebody like Reaper is made to stalk his foe and knock them out with a quick slash of the scythe, which is what he'll be doing here. After that, it's all over.

WINNER=REAPER

 

[Harlekin]

REBUTTAL: Thor vs Mondo

Mondo is a mutant (highly trained in the AoA) who can become one with his environment and move through it, etc. He becomes what he blends with. He can travel through the material and such as if water and does so rather quickly. He is also very durable. Colossus beat him to mush once and he just took a minute to reform himself and all was well. When he died he was stabbed by Sugar Man's tongue, but SM's tongue did other wierd things like that and I would assume that Mondo's death was more a result of SM's tongue than Mondo's inability to take being stabbed. Anyhow, if he was turned to mush, chances are that he can take a little bit of beating from Thor (not much, but enough to last a bit, if it were to come to that).

I'll take these point by point:
- Thor is quite a bit stronger than Colossus (although he might have become about class 100 now, he wasn't back then).
- Sugar Man's tongue is just stated to be able to break through anything, be it steel or wood. Mjolnir is capable of that and so much more.
- I wonder how long it would last then? What kind of estimate would you really give him? I'm afraid I don't see him lasting longer than a few minutes. Mondo is nowhere near that kind of durability.

My thought is that neither character will know about the other, so neither will know what to expect (though I figure with the name of "Thor" Mondo should be able to figure out he's out of his leage).
[...]
Mondo will then pull him into the earth and pull him down as far as he possibly can. I'm sure that Thor will struggle, but Mondo is one that's been beat to mush and reformed, so he should be able to take it. Strength isn't going to do much in this setting, no lightning bolts will reach them, and he can't fling his hammer to fly away. Once they are as far down as possible, Mondo will quickly just pack as much dirt and stone around Thor as is near (should only take a few seconds), cementing him in the ground, and then he'll just move back up the earth to the surface.

Point by point again:
- Mondo tries to take him down below? Energy blasts should suffice.
- As I've said before, I doubt how much Mondo can take from Thor.
- Lightning is only one aspect of what Thor can call upon. Like I said, there's energy blasts and a whole host of other things that he can use to break free in this scenario.

My thinkings is that with no momentum, Thor can't throw his Hammer to blast his way out. He has strength, but he has no momentum to swing his fists and break his way out (at least it'll take a while). He may try to summon lightning, but it'd just strike trees above him and such, not actually reaching him. He can't spin his hammer or do anything but sit there flexing.

He doesn't have to throw his hammer to blast his way out. He can just fire an energy blast. He'll be out in a second.

I believe whole heartedly that Thor can get out of this, but I think it'll take enough time to official count him as immobilized. Now I don't know much about Thor, but in my insane mind, I think this will actually work!

I severely disagree. As I've noted, Thor can avoid this tactic quite easily and get out of it even easier. It's a good strategy for Mondo, but it won't work for Thor.

Thor's powers are just too versatile and too powerful for Mondo to handle.

WINNER=THOR

 

[Harlekin]

REBUTTAL: Reaper vs Storm

Okay, my first instinct is to yell out "Storm is Queen of Wakanda! Yes!" but then I remember this is before that, so that sucks So in that case, location does nothing for either combatant.

As I've stated, the jungle will be of great advantage to Reaper.

However, I think it's almost safe to say that Storm has a good chance at winning this battle. Reaper is one of my favorate villains (earned that during his All New Exiles days) but Storm is just out of his league. She is highly skilled, highly experienced, she is battling out in the African Open, and will probably take to the skies quickly. She's fought Reaper and knows about him, and he her, but I think in the end, he's just going to be a nuisance for her. He won't last long. I won't debate this one much unless my opponant chooses to, being that I have six matches this week. This isn't one I want to spend a lot of time on.

Except it's not really the "African Open". Wakanda is pretty much divided into two types of land. The technological kingdom housing T'Challa and the civilized people and the jungle where the tribes live. It's that jungle that gives him the edge. I think Storm would have a pretty good chance of winning, naturally, but I don't think that "good chance" translates to about 30/40%. Reaper is a character specifically designed for surprise attacks. He land with his blow and the match'll be over.

WINNER=REAPER

 

[JewishHobbit]

OPENING COMMENTS: Reaper vs Storm

My second match against JewishHobbit this week, this involves a character I mildly care about and one that I really don't like. You can match up the pictures yourself. The powers' of these characters aren't really attuned to one another, and that's where Reaper's advantage lies. With the help of the Weapon X files, Reaper can find out Storm's strengths and weaknesses, while Storm will have to do with outdated X-Men files (Reaper no long has cybernetics for one, and the scythe is now pretty much a part of him for two).

It's the same with me. I actually don't like Storm, but I love Reaper, so this is a bittersweet match for me. I agree that Reaper will have info on Storm and that Storm's info on Reaper would probably be out of date, but the differances in his info shouldn't effect the match at all. I think going in it'll be pretty even info-wise.

Just like with my opponent Ruckus in the previous round, Reaper has to do this based on one hit. That hit will instantly paralyze his opponent however and cause excruciating pain. Here is where Wakanda will be to Reaper's advantage. Storm will intially try and win this battle from the air, but she will be forced to the ground when she can't find Reaper, who will be hidden in wide jungle of the Wakandas.

Storm isn't one to just fall to a one hit attack. Granted, Reaper's attack, if connected, could do it, but the chances of him landing that attack is stacked against him.

Storm may know the area, but even then, she will have to walk through its jungles without a quick escape route (trees will block any of those), and have to rely on her training and instincts. These are formidable yes, but somebody like Reaper is made to stalk his foe and knock them out with a quick slash of the scythe, which is what he'll be doing here. After that, it's all over.

WINNER=REAPER

Thing is, Storm spent many years in Africa, and then also in Westchester (forest surounds the mansion). She's an adult woman whose been trained indepthly in life and in the danger room. She knows how to defend herself and such around trees. She will take to the air, and if Reaper's pasty skin doesn't stick out enough for her to find him, she'll land. She'll know Reaper and know that he's waiting, and I could imagine her then sending a gust of wind through the trees, knocking him from his tree or wherever he's perched. Once she has him in her sights, he's toast. His chance at surprise is gone, and his chance for that one hit is long past. Reaper's just out of his league in this one.

Winner - Storm

 

[JewishHobbit]

REBUTTAL: Thor vs Mondo

I'll take these point by point:
- Thor is quite a bit stronger than Colossus (although he might have become about class 100 now, he wasn't back then).
- Sugar Man's tongue is just stated to be able to break through anything, be it steel or wood. Mjolnir is capable of that and so much more.
- I wonder how long it would last then? What kind of estimate would you really give him? I'm afraid I don't see him lasting longer than a few minutes. Mondo is nowhere near that kind of durability.

The majority of this would just apply if it came to an actual confrontational fight. If it does, Mondo's toast, I know this. So for my plans, none of this matters.

Point by point again:
- Mondo tries to take him down below? Energy blasts should suffice.
- As I've said before, I doubt how much Mondo can take from Thor.
- Lightning is only one aspect of what Thor can call upon. Like I said, there's energy blasts and a whole host of other things that he can use to break free in this scenario.

The idea is that Mondo won't get a hit received against him from Thor, so he doesn't have to take any of it. I was always under the impression that Thor had to spin his hammer to shoot blasts, but I guess I was wrong on that. I can still explain why this works with them anyhow.

1) Mondo isn't pulling Thor down inch by inch slowly.... the ground litterally just 'sloop' swollows him in. It'd take a second and he's being drug down. The natural momentum of things would have his arms up, so even if he were to fire energy blasts, they'd just go up, and not down at Mondo. He wouldn't be able to lower his arms to fire at Mondo as the momentum won't allow, and if his strength could overcome the momentum, Mondo is controling the dirt around him and moving about it. If Thor manages to lower his arms, Mondo can just move through the dirt and redirct Thor a differant direction until Thor gets his arms that way. This may even help disorient Thor so he may not know which way is up to escape once he gets down to where Mondo is taking him.

Now personally, I don't see Thor just going against rushing dirt and stone like this. He doesn't have the momentum and in this setting he's in Mondo's playing field. If he does try and manages to break his arms through the ongoing flow of stone and dirt, Mondo will know and will just move, helping his task. Thor's blasts aren't helping him. Now once he gets down to where Mondo takes him, he should be able to blast himself out, but he's not 20 feet down or anything, he's way way down there, miles even. He can get out, but it'll take a short bit and Mondo will be declared the vitor by then.

And you said that there's other things he can do to get out, but remember, I don't know Thor well so you'll have to be specific so I can counter those. For now, I think I'm happy with my debate.

Winner - Mondo (AoA)


He doesn't have to throw his hammer to blast his way out. He can just fire an energy blast. He'll be out in a second.


I severely disagree. As I've noted, Thor can avoid this tactic quite easily and get out of it even easier. It's a good strategy for Mondo, but it won't work for Thor.

Thor's powers are just too versatile and too powerful for Mondo to handle.

WINNER=THOR[/QUOTE]

 

[JewishHobbit]

OPENING COMMENTS: Thor vs Mondo (AoA)

I like Mondo, really I do, but I'm afraid Thor is a little too out of his league in this case. Prep-time will help neither, since in the AoA there is no Thor, and Mondo (beyond having a bit of a messy continuity) didn't get around much in the superhero scene. The advantage that Thor does have however, is the fact that he'll know Wakanda, as he's friends with the Black Panther and has visited the land before on Avengers business. Knowing the locale will enable Thor to keep Mondo away from "danger zones".

Thor won't know Mondo, but the myth of "Thor" has been around long before Apocalypse took control of the Age of Apocalypse. Mondo should know at least a basis of what he's up against, which helps him to know he's out of his league and will help him know to stay out of sight and to not get into a physical confrontation. And as for location, Thor will know it going in, but all Mondo has to see is the nature (trees, dirt, rock, etc) and he'll be at home even more than Thor. It's his kind of battleground!

As you can see, Thor is an incredibly versatile character, also being a lot more versatile than his current opponent. Mondo's powers can be used both offensively and defensively, but neither will really protect him Thor. Thor's endurance is far above any power Mondo can muster, and Thor's strength alone should be enough to break Mondo into little pieces. After all, the Sugar Man killed Mondo through the simple use of his tongue. Mjolnir (and Thor's fists really) are enough to break through anything Mondo can absorb (and incase you doubt that: Mjolnir has dented Captain America's shield before and his energy blasts have destroyed secondary adamantium).

I agree that Thor is much more powerful and versatile than Mondo, but knowledge is power and in that Mondo has the advantage. Thor will know nothing of Mondo and will not know what he is looking for. He is looking for a young man and doesnt find him, because Mondo is staying out of sight within the ground (as is very in character of him, as he did it almost entirely throughout the AoA). Thor will not find him and will not know where to look. Mondo has 24 hours to think of the pulling Thor into the ground idea, and even more time as he follows Thor around waiting for him to land, until the time is finally right. All Thor's strength and powers mean little in my attack plan, and Thor won't get the chance to go on the offensive once Mondo takes him into his playing field.

Thor however, will ultimately find out what Mondo's powers are when Mondo goes on the offensive, and that's when Thor can simply use his weather powers. Using rain, lightning, wind etc. Thor can influence the matter Mondo has absorbed, so if he's dirt, Thor can simply call up a blizzard and freeze him into place. For any state Mondo assumes, Thor will be able to conjure up an adequate response. And THIS is just ONE aspect of his powers.

Mondo's a good character, but he's just outclassed here.

WINNER=THOR

If it were to come to this, I agree that the match would be Thor's but it won't. Mondo is trained by Collosus and Kitty as harshly as possible in the AoA and he's in line to be an X-Man. He will know not to go aimlessly at an opponant greater than you, and he will not just go on the offensive without a plan. The plan I set into motion makes the most sense for him to go with and it just comes down to whether a person believes Thor can get out of the ground in time to not be DQ'd due to being immoble too long.

If you want to keep debating, that's fine, especially if there's more feats Thor can do that might help him, but if it's just going to be going back and forth about his strength, energy attacks, etc. then I'm willing to leave it to the voters. I'm fine either way.

Winner - Mondo (AoA)

 

[Harlekin]

REBUTTAL: Reaper vs Storm

Storm isn't one to just fall to a one hit attack. Granted, Reaper's attack, if connected, could do it, but the chances of him landing that attack is stacked against him.

Exactly. It's deciding whether Reaper's hit connects, because then Storm IS going down, where she wants it or not.

Thing is, Storm spent many years in Africa, and then also in Westchester (forest surounds the mansion). She's an adult woman whose been trained indepthly in life and in the danger room. She knows how to defend herself and such around trees. She will take to the air, and if Reaper's pasty skin doesn't stick out enough for her to find him, she'll land. She'll know Reaper and know that he's waiting, and I could imagine her then sending a gust of wind through the trees, knocking him from his tree or wherever he's perched. Once she has him in her sights, he's toast. His chance at surprise is gone, and his chance for that one hit is long past. Reaper's just out of his league in this one.

Reaper's skin became pretty dark in the Weapon X run, and you really wouldn't notice it much in a densely packed forest. She lands and Reaper will wait for the exact moment he can hit her. Weapon X will have trained him in stealth methods, and he used to be a terrorist at that.

She'd have to go using her powers at random in hopes of drawing him out, which I doubt she'd do, because she'd want to preserve the jungle. The jungle is just too limiting, and might even play up her claustrofobia, which might her prone to unpredictable acts, but also prone to surprise attacks.

WINNER=REAPER

 

[JewishHobbit]

REBUTTAL: Reaper vs Storm

Exactly. It's deciding whether Reaper's hit connects, because then Storm IS going down, where she wants it or not.


Reaper's skin became pretty dark in the Weapon X run, and you really wouldn't notice it much in a densely packed forest. She lands and Reaper will wait for the exact moment he can hit her. Weapon X will have trained him in stealth methods, and he used to be a terrorist at that.

She'd have to go using her powers at random in hopes of drawing him out, which I doubt she'd do, because she'd want to preserve the jungle. The jungle is just too limiting, and might even play up her claustrofobia, which might her prone to unpredictable acts, but also prone to surprise attacks.

WINNER=REAPER

Storm overcame her claustrofobia long ago if I'm not mistaken (could be wrong, but forrests haven't bothered her before now, doubt it will now).

Well, I think this one's at a stand still and just matter of opinion whether Reaper can get the hit in before Storm takes him out. I'm willing to just let it go to the voters.

Winner - Storm

 

[Harlekin]

REBUTTAL: Thor vs Mondo

The majority of this would just apply if it came to an actual confrontational fight. If it does, Mondo's toast, I know this. So for my plans, none of this matters.

But I'm afraid there is not much else beside going for a confrontation.

The idea is that Mondo won't get a hit received against him from Thor, so he doesn't have to take any of it. I was always under the impression that Thor had to spin his hammer to shoot blasts, but I guess I was wrong on that. I can still explain why this works with them anyhow.

The spinning of the hammer is just an aestethic, and is used to open dimensional portals, not necessary for the firing of energy blasts.

1) Mondo isn't pulling Thor down inch by inch slowly.... the ground litterally just 'sloop' swollows him in. It'd take a second and he's being drug down. The natural momentum of things would have his arms up, so even if he were to fire energy blasts, they'd just go up, and not down at Mondo. He wouldn't be able to lower his arms to fire at Mondo as the momentum won't allow, and if his strength could overcome the momentum, Mondo is controling the dirt around him and moving about it. If Thor manages to lower his arms, Mondo can just move through the dirt and redirct Thor a differant direction until Thor gets his arms that way. This may even help disorient Thor so he may not know which way is up to escape once he gets down to where Mondo is taking him.

- Thor's blasts can be directed. Beside that, the energy released would be going around, giving him the chance to swing his arms either way.
- Thor is strong, very strong. Yes, he's going to be pulled down, but Mondo wouldn't be able to exert enough strength to keep Thor. He's strong enough to punch through some dirt. Heck, he'd be able to exert enough speed to just fly up and prevent from being sucked into the ground.

Now personally, I don't see Thor just going against rushing dirt and stone like this. He doesn't have the momentum and in this setting he's in Mondo's playing field. If he does try and manages to break his arms through the ongoing flow of stone and dirt, Mondo will know and will just move, helping his task. Thor's blasts aren't helping him. Now once he gets down to where Mondo takes him, he should be able to blast himself out, but he's not 20 feet down or anything, he's way way down there, miles even. He can get out, but it'll take a short bit and Mondo will be declared the vitor by then.

- Thor is a calculating warrior but he's also one that is quite easily frustrated. If he's being pulled down by stone and dirt, he's going to break the stone and destroy the dirt.
- This isn't really a case of momentum or anything, since Mondo simply isn't going to be strong enough to even take Thor down there and keep him there. He's not going to make it a feet down, sorry.

And you said that there's other things he can do to get out, but remember, I don't know Thor well so you'll have to be specific so I can counter those. For now, I think I'm happy with my debate.

If you want do some extra research. However, I think the use of his weather powers will be enough to take down Mondo.

Thor won't know Mondo, but the myth of "Thor" has been around long before Apocalypse took control of the Age of Apocalypse. Mondo should know at least a basis of what he's up against, which helps him to know he's out of his league and will help him know to stay out of sight and to not get into a physical confrontation. And as for location, Thor will know it going in, but all Mondo has to see is the nature (trees, dirt, rock, etc) and he'll be at home even more than Thor. It's his kind of battleground!

He'll have an idea, but I doubt it will affect the match much. He won't expect his strength, or how versatile his weather powers can be. He'll know the myth, maybe, but it's not like he's going to research it that much.

I agree that Thor is much more powerful and versatile than Mondo, but knowledge is power and in that Mondo has the advantage. Thor will know nothing of Mondo and will not know what he is looking for. He is looking for a young man and doesnt find him, because Mondo is staying out of sight within the ground (as is very in character of him, as he did it almost entirely throughout the AoA). Thor will not find him and will not know where to look. Mondo has 24 hours to think of the pulling Thor into the ground idea, and even more time as he follows Thor around waiting for him to land, until the time is finally right. All Thor's strength and powers mean little in my attack plan, and Thor won't get the chance to go on the offensive once Mondo takes him into his playing field.

I've already responded to both the planning time and the plan itself. Neither will be very effective against someone of Thor's stature.

If it were to come to this, I agree that the match would be Thor's but it won't. Mondo is trained by Collosus and Kitty as harshly as possible in the AoA and he's in line to be an X-Man. He will know not to go aimlessly at an opponant greater than you, and he will not just go on the offensive without a plan. The plan I set into motion makes the most sense for him to go with and it just comes down to whether a person believes Thor can get out of the ground in time to not be DQ'd due to being immoble too long.

Thor is a warrior god with 1000 of years of experience. Mondo's training fails in comparison. He will have to face Thor at some point, which is when he's going down. I think I've shown adequately that Mondo's plan is ultimately a futile one. He'll have to improvise.

If you want to keep debating, that's fine, especially if there's more feats Thor can do that might help him, but if it's just going to be going back and forth about his strength, energy attacks, etc. then I'm willing to leave it to the voters. I'm fine either way.

I think the more important question is whether Mondo can come up more feats to aid him in this case.

WINNER=THOR

 

[Harlekin]

REBUTTAL: Reaper vs Storm

Storm overcame her claustrofobia long ago if I'm not mistaken (could be wrong, but forrests haven't bothered her before now, doubt it will now).

I've read nothing on Storm that indicates she overcame that weakness.

Well, I think this one's at a stand still and just matter of opinion whether Reaper can get the hit in before Storm takes him out. I'm willing to just let it go to the voters.

I'm willing to leave it up to the voters.

WINNER=REAPER

 

[JewishHobbit]

Mondo (AoA) Vs Thor

Instead of addressing the above points one by one, I think it'd be easier to just make a generalized closing statement and leave it up to the votes, as otherwise I'd just be repeating myself.

In regards to pulling Thor down, he has strength, yes, but if he has nothing to balance that strength with or push/pull it against, it's not going to do much. Mondo becomes the dirt/stone/clay/etc. around him and he expands to become it. He's not just a hand holding Thor, he's around Thor and moving all around him to pull him down. He's not allowing Thor room to apply his strength. I personally think that his strength will provide some resistance, but not enough for him to stop the dirt and ground moving around him pulling him down, as it's compacted all around him, leaving no room for that strength to apply. I don't see him pulling himself out of the dirt only a foot in because it is quick and he has nothing to push off of (not to mention Mondo could easily just bring the trees above him crashing down to cover them up quickly by uprooting them, etc.). As I said before, I know Thor can get out, but I believe it will take long enough for him to be considered out of the match. My oponant disagrees, and he has right. This is where I maintain my stance. From here on I leave to the voters. I hope my creativity in showing how my character can win this match proves stronger than my oponant's "he hits him with his hammer" simplicity approach (all due respect). I think Mondo can pull this off, and I hope you believe me too

Winner - Mondo (AoA)

 

[Harlekin]

FINAL COMMENTS: Thor vs Mondo (AoA)

Instead of addressing the above points one by one, I think it'd be easier to just make a generalized closing statement and leave it up to the votes, as otherwise I'd just be repeating myself.

In regards to pulling Thor down, he has strength, yes, but if he has nothing to balance that strength with or push/pull it against, it's not going to do much. Mondo becomes the dirt/stone/clay/etc. around him and he expands to become it. He's not just a hand holding Thor, he's around Thor and moving all around him to pull him down. He's not allowing Thor room to apply his strength. I personally think that his strength will provide some resistance, but not enough for him to stop the dirt and ground moving around him pulling him down, as it's compacted all around him, leaving no room for that strength to apply. I don't see him pulling himself out of the dirt only a foot in because it is quick and he has nothing to push off of (not to mention Mondo could easily just bring the trees above him crashing down to cover them up quickly by uprooting them, etc.). As I said before, I know Thor can get out, but I believe it will take long enough for him to be considered out of the match. My oponant disagrees, and he has right. This is where I maintain my stance. From here on I leave to the voters. I hope my creativity in showing how my character can win this match proves stronger than my oponant's "he hits him with his hammer" simplicity approach (all due respect). I think Mondo can pull this off, and I hope you believe me too

Winner - Mondo (AoA)

With all due respect, from my opening post:

Thor however, will ultimately find out what Mondo's powers are when Mondo goes on the offensive, and that's when Thor can simply use his weather powers. Using rain, lightning, wind etc. Thor can influence the matter Mondo has absorbed, so if he's dirt, Thor can simply call up a blizzard and freeze him into place. For any state Mondo assumes, Thor will be able to conjure up an adequate response. And THIS is just ONE aspect of his powers.

So please, don't give me the creativity cheapshot.

This is also an argument I've never heard an adequate response to besides "he won't get the chance too". I think I've shown quite well how Thor can circumvent JewishHobbit's main (and only) strategy for Mondo. I'm not going to rebut the points made in JH's post, because I've already stated a defense for it, and anyone who reads up a little on Thor will be able to see the validity of that argument.

WINNER=THOR

 

[JewishHobbit]

FINAL COMMENTS: Thor vs Mondo (AoA)



With all due respect, from my opening post:


So please, don't give me the creativity cheapshot.

This is also an argument I've never heard an adequate response to besides "he won't get the chance too". I think I've shown quite well how Thor can circumvent JewishHobbit's main (and only) strategy for Mondo. I'm not going to rebut the points made in JH's post, because I've already stated a defense for it, and anyone who reads up a little on Thor will be able to see the validity of that argument.

WINNER=THOR

I honestly forgot about the weather angle... so I'll just say the "beat the crap out of Mondo" argument and just get it all in one fell swoop. And I gave a response to that side of the debate about 3 times. I said Mondo can't win in a physical fight. I said from the first post that my idea is about the only chance Mondo has, therefor, no point in debating a way that he'd survive anything else. I thought I had it covered. I ment what I said though, no disrespect ment. I just honestly didn't remember the weather deal (or maybe my misthinking of Thor having to twirl his hammer to make things happen ingraned the hammer aspect of your argument in my head, who knows). Cheers

 

[hippy fascist]

Paibok Vs Ch'od

Got given this character and I must confess I don't know him as well as I'd like to but based upon the few bits in annihilation and the bios I've read, I'll definately be checking him out in the future. He's AWESOME!

Ok, the fight. Cho'd is a big fishman hybrid who while super strong and durable is well out of his league here.

Paibok on the other hand has powers as follows


Superhuman strength, speed and endurance

Flight

Invulnerability

Shape-shifting

Hypnosis

Ability to project electrical bolts and ice blasts

Ability to turn his skin into a metallic substance similar to that of colossus



So basically it comes down to this. Ch'od is super strong (possibly even close to paibok's strength and is super durable. These are abilities paibok can match but he also has flight to allow him to engage ch'od without ever having to get within 20 yrds of him. If ch'od does get in close by some fluke accident paibok's hypnotism is on a par with that of the superskrull meaning he could easily simply instruct ch'od to stop fighting.

If chod brings weapons? No problem, as a skrull shapeshifter paibok can simply move his organs to avoid any stray projectiles that may hit him. That is of course they can penetrate his metal skin.

To cap it all off he has control over both ice and electricity meaning while flying around he can simply freeze/electrocute ch'od without ever having to engage him in hand to hand combat.

If the fight does come down to hand to hand Paibok is still stronger and the combination of his standard invulnerability and his metal skin will give him the end in terms of recieving blows from chod. I believe paibok is a bit stronger than ch'od as well but I'd need confirmation from JH or phaed on this.

All in all paibok can do everything ch'od can do and much more besides. I honestly can't envision a situation where ch'od would win this one, but that of course is up to the voters to decide.

WINNER: PAIBOK!

 

[hippy fascist]

This is not an easy battle for Ch'od in the least, but I've been pretty good with underdogs battles so far (even if I've lost everytime)

Don't worry, it'll all be over soon

Now Ch'od's powers are pretty straight forward: Superstrength, advanced intelligence, nearly invunerable hide (only stab wounds have managed to hurt it),
able to breath on land and in water, and able to hold his breath in space, and finally he's a superb hand-to-hand combat, swordsman, and marksman
(Here's the better bio for him, listing all this:Bio

All very good but as we all know invulnerable is an extremely subjective term an usually simply means very durable. Compare that with paibok's ability to transform his skin into steel and it's obvious that paibok is more durable than ch'od

Now Palibok on the other hand:
Superhuman strength, speed and endurance
Flight
Invulnerability
Shape-shifting
Hypnosis
Ability to project electrical bolts and ice blasts

All correct, except you forgot his ability to turn his skin into metal.

Now in the past extreme colds (Starjammers (1994) in which he's out in space, a very cold place) and electricity (X-men Spotlight #1) have shown to be of no use against Ch'od so those two abilities are taken care of. Ch'od has super strength that was strong enough to let him tear apart a Sh'iar escape pod by picking it up and shredding it like paper (Starjammers #3(1994)). I'm not sure where Palibok lands. I would guess that Paliboks invunerability is much higher then Ch'od's near-invunerability (exactly what he calls in it X-men Spotlight #2). So Paliboks only real advantages are his hypnosis, flight and shapeshifting. Now that shapeshifting won't be able to foul Ch'od when its only the two of them and the flight can be over come with guns (which Ch'od WILL bring) and the hypnosis won't be a problem since Ch'od has an enhanced front lobe he can use to overcome it (X-men Spotlight #2) and the effects will only be temporary.

The effects of hypnosis won't be held off by his frontal lobe, there is little or no evidence of him using this in the comics. Paibok's hypnosis is on a par with that of the super skrull and even someone like ch'od will find it almost impossible to resist.

Secondly, the cold might not effect him but an ice blast that forms a fairly sizeable block of ice mid flight smashing into ch'od will at the very least knock him out.

With regards all of these resistances, like his invulnerability, they offer some protection but do not make him immune. Paibok's energy and ice blasts are off the charts. They will work on ch'od taking him out (albeit they make take a few hits to put him out of action)

As far as info on each other, Ch'od is a recorded bounty hunter and pirate so info is plentiful, Palibok is a Kree warrior which probly means info somehwere. Ch'od is not beyond killing, he'll bring weapons by the dozens and go for every vantage point. Paliboks invunerability doesn't mean he can't be hurt. Eyes, ears, and mouths can still be hurt. Ch'od will aim for the eyes to blind his opponent and give him an oppurtunity to bring Palibok down to his level. Palibok might then try to shoot ice and electricity which Ch'od will just shrug off and keep coming, he'll pull out swords and start pounding on Palibok with super strength then go for the stab kills. He'll try anything to do to keep Palibok grounded. After enought hits Palibok will be done for.

Winner=Ch'od

Firstly, he's a skrull, and skrulls are known for being largely unneffected by bullets as they can simply reform their bodies/move organs out of the way of bullets so the guns will be useless.

Ch'od will not simply shrug off the ice and electrical blasts. They may not hurt him as much as your average person but in reality 4-5 of these and ch'od will be out action. On top of that paibok will be flying at superspeed meaning he's both an EXTREMELY hard target with ranged weapons and completely out of range for hand to hand.

Finally if none of these things work by some miracle then paibok can simply use hit and run tactics. Paibok has super speed, ch'od doesn't so keeping up with paibok would be impossible. Ch'od may be a great hand to hand fighter but as any martial artist will tell you, the key to winning a fight is speed. If you can get 10 hits in in the time it takes then to get one even the weediest fighter can stand a chance. Paibok on the other hand is stronger and more durable than ch'od so this will just decimate the fishman.

I love the character and it's a shame to see him go, but Paibok's got this one in the bag.

WINNER: PAIBOK!

 

[Hellstormer]

All very good but as we all know invulnerable is an extremely subjective term an usually simply means very durable. Compare that with paibok's ability to transform his skin into steel and it's obvious that paibok is more durable than ch'od All correct, except you forgot his ability to turn his skin into metal.

...Ch'od tore through a Shi'Ar escape pod, turning to metal probaly wouldn't be smart.

Secondly, the cold might not effect him but an ice blast that forms a fairly sizeable block of ice mid flight smashing into ch'od will at the very least knock him out.

His rough hide is like body armor, it won't knock him out, it'll hurt like hell and slow him down but that's about it.

With regards all of these resistances, like his invulnerability, they offer some protection but do not make him immune. Paibok's energy and ice blasts are off the charts. They will work on ch'od taking him out (albeit they make take a few hits to put him out of action)

The energy will be a real threat, enough charges and Ch'od will go down, but he's not gonna stand around waiting to get hit.

Firstly, he's a skrull, and skrulls are known for being largely unneffected by bullets as they can simply reform their bodies/move organs out of the way of bullets so the guns will be useless.

Who said bullets? These are weapons...from space. I doubt Ch'od uses prmitive bullets.

Ch'od will not simply shrug off the ice and electrical blasts. They may not hurt him as much as your average person but in reality 4-5 of these and ch'od will be out action. On top of that paibok will be flying at superspeed meaning he's both an EXTREMELY hard target with ranged weapons and completely out of range for hand to hand.

Unless Ch'od manages to get himself in front of Palibok, and he's an expert Marksman, I'm sure he could draw blood.

Finally if none of these things work by some miracle then paibok can simply use hit and run tactics. Paibok has super speed, ch'od doesn't so keeping up with paibok would be impossible. Ch'od may be a great hand to hand fighter but as any martial artist will tell you, the key to winning a fight is speed. If you can get 10 hits in in the time it takes then to get one even the weediest fighter can stand a chance. Paibok on the other hand is stronger and more durable than ch'od so this will just decimate the fishman.

I'll give you the speed, but stronger? Hell no, they're on par at least. And durability, admittedly Ch'od is slight lower.

I love the character and it's a shame to see him go, but Paibok's got this one in the bag.

Winner=Ch'od

 

[hippy fascist]

...Ch'od tore through a Shi'Ar escape pod, turning to metal probaly wouldn't be smart.

Paibok was one of only a handful of survivors from a kree prison ship crashed onto a planet's surface. Hundreds of others weren't strong enough.
He's far more durable than ch'od

His rough hide is like body armor, it won't knock him out, it'll hurt like hell and slow him down but that's about it.

Shockwave attacks to the brain: Hit a guy twice in rapid succession, or either by effecting the preacher punch (slapping the guy hard in the middle of the forehead) or nailing a good solid punch to the chin will cause the brain to literally rattle inside the skull. The brain hitting one part of the skull is one thing. Two blows (e.g. when it then bounces off the back side of the skull) in rapid succession will just cause the brain to drop blood pressure and shut down momentarily.

Source:http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node=knockout

In other words two-three solid blocks of ice thrown at his head in rapid succession at high speed and he's out cold. This isn't about penetration, it's about knocking his head back and shaking up his brain.

The energy will be a real threat, enough charges and Ch'od will go down, but he's not gonna stand around waiting to get hit.

Who said bullets? These are weapons...from space. I doubt Ch'od uses prmitive bullets.

And paibok has survived the nova flame. Lasers aren't going to be much use. Besides he's going to be flying at random angles damn fast, constantly changing trajectory. A near impossible target even for the army's best sharpshooters.

Also ch'od is usedto fighting in a team. with people to cover him. He's also more about guerilla warfare. This is wakanda, miles and miles of open flatland with very little in the way of cover. With paibok in air ch'od will be a sitting duck. I give him 5, maybe at a push 10 minutes max.

Unless Ch'od manages to get himself in front of Palibok, and he's an expert Marksman, I'm sure he could draw blood.

1. A flesh wound will not hold the likes of paibok back
2. He will be able to come at him from any angle. He'll never be "in front of him for more than 2 seconds at a time. It'll take him longerthan that just to aim.

I'll give you the speed, but stronger? Hell no, they're on par at least. And durability, admittedly Ch'od is slight lower.

And speed wins fights. Ask martial artist of any discipline and they'll tell you that unless the slower guy is SIGNIFICANTLY stronger than his opponent he'll get his ass handed to him by the faster guy as every block will be that bit too slow and every punch returned will get blocked. Paibok's super speed wins this one in hand to hand. But it won't come to that as aerial bombardment is the way paibok will take this fight.

Winner=Ch'od

 

[Phaedrus45]

Voting May Begin!!!

 

[Phaedrus45]

edit

 

[Phaedrus45]

*Thor

*Death's Head II

*Paibok

*Storm

 

[Harlekin]

Thor
Cyclops - Debating...
Paibok - Just a little too powerful for Ch'od, sadly.
Reaper - Duh.

 

[Midnight Ice]

Mondo (Man, this one was tough, given the debates. Although since Thor knows nothing about AoA Mondo and Mondo won't have to take any type of form to suck Thor under, I think he could pull him under enough to win. Sucks because I like Thor so much more)
Cyclops
Paibok
Storm

 

[kytrigger]

Thor
Cyclops-would've been tough though if there was a debate
Paibok
Storm-real good debate