What the hell? the prison is now sentient enough to recognize "hey, that kid's a New Warrior and used to be an Avenger, I shouldn't touch him." BULL! Besides, the New Warriors are basically unknowns. His time as an Avenger is long past. The second he tries to force his way through any barrier the prison's defenses will certainly kick in and try to put him down. maybe they'll gas him, maybe they'll hit him with tranq darts, but the second he triest to force his way through anything, He will be fighting the prison's defenses, which will register him as a Meta-human trying to break out. I don't care wht you say, this is a Maximum security prison designed to hold meta-humans. It will have automated defenses to stop a telekinetic and it will have power dampening technology.
Again, I work in prisons. I have visited several aside from the one I work in primarily. they all vary from each other in large degrees. just because he went to A prison, doesn't mean he knows ALL prisons. that's just bull. and Prodigy is getting his Head's-Up Display map because he'll have likely downloaded the building's schematics in his day of preptime. He'll have done all his research thoroughly. He'll know the terrain, and he'll know his opponent. How would Justice get the schematics? how will Justice get the blue-prints?
A: you haven't explained it well enough. he may be faster, but he won't know where the hell he is. the prison is large with many narrow dark corridors. It would take luck for him to locate the master control before Prodigy.
A: because, as soon as Justice is aiming at him with a plan in mind, Prodigy is already moving, forcing him to rework his plan. Okay, he's got a hand aimed at him, but damnit if the kid isn't already in another spot, so now he has to concieve of a hand there, but the kid's moving again.A) How are you avoiding such a move exactly. Get the picture in your head. Giant invisible hand scooping somebody up. Even if you know he's going for that tactic, it's hard to avoid. I'd almost say impossible.
B) I don't see how blanketing will kill him at all.It'll put him down against the ground. Justice would never use the force necessary to kill Prodigy, but he doesn't need to. I'm really befuddled on how you automatically assume this tactic kills Prodigy.
you're telling me that you think a prison designed for the specific purpose of holding and containing meta humans, some of which with advanced healing factors that would render drugs USELESS, is going to rely SOLEY on drugs and is not going to take advantage of any other form of power dampening, and will most certainly not put any power dampening technology anywhere but the cells. Because you know it's illegal for them to spend all their time in the cells. this is a U.S. Prison. they have a right to yard time, even inmates in solitary get yard time, I promise you that. It's illegal to refuse it to them. (the only reason they get away with total isolation in 42 is because it is not within U.S. Jurisdiction)
A:It doesn't work instantly virtually all telekinetics, among others, gesture to focus their powers. you rarely see them where they don't.
What?
I've addressed this
I give it a C... unless you're in Kindergarten
Fury is a human that no longer controls Shield.
Empath would know who Fury was and depending on Fury's access, he could get information on Empath.
Empath would arrive and sense where Fury was and simply turn him into a zombie. This would be instantaneous and there are no defences against it. The battle is then over.
Winner - Empath
- The prison would require a certain amount of programming to ensure it doesn't take down heroes along with its villains. There's a reason the prison doesn't register every metahuman as a threat. He's got Avengers clearance (and really, it wasn't that long ago. 2 years Marvel time tops).
Avengers clearance anybody? He's still a reserve member. Once an Avenger, always an Avenger and all that hooey. Beyond that, I'll conceed to the "knows prisons thing", but it doesn't change a thing about simple use of sight. Justice sees a corridor. Justice flies to the end of it in a second. Rinse and repeat.
Use of blueprints.
"Quickly"? It took him weeks.
I really don't see where you get the "it took them many years"-thing from. When they got the Shi'ar tech, I don't recall it taking a long time at all to have it installed and be the new Danger Room. The X-Men have had the same Danger Room for over a decade now, real-time.
Because that kind of a plan would certainly take ages. Justice thinks, mental hand appears. Let's just even say for a moment that Prodigy is capable of dodging this. Y'know what to do? Move hand, faster than Prodigy can move. Telekinetics are instant, Prodigy isn't.
He says he has to do with a particular vengeance. He can gently force Prodigy to the ground. It also doesn't really cut off anything of his air supply, unless Justice wants that to happen. And oh yeah, if your air supply is cut off, you go unconscious first. You don't immediately die. Justice can let up then.
We are shown nothing of power dampening technology. That is an assumption. We try and avoid using assumptions in this contest. The drugs were obviously good enough to make the Purple Man think he still had control of his powers, when he didn't. All of what you're saying can obviously be accomplished with such drugs. This is not the real world, boyo, it's the Marvel universe.
I don't ever actually recall a telekinetic gesture with his/her hand to focus their power. Either way, Justice has shown that he doesn't need to do this. Most telekinetics are also trained enough that thought instantly becomes action.
Yep, because Prodigy has superhuman speed... Oh wait, he doesn't. A forcefield around him isn't something he can avoid. Ask some of the Invisible Woman's foes.
It deserves a C. It was a five minute thing in Microsoft Paint. Funny how you dodged the validity of it, because I obviously couldn't make my point clear to you verbally.
=programing that would cause it to recognize anyone who triest to break through barriers as an enemy. plus it wasn't watched over by meta's like 42. the entire staff were base-line humans. and as far as his Avenger's clearance, by the time this contest takes place, the Avengers have disbanded, and his clearance won't get him a cup of coffee, much less allowances from security devices.
Again, his Avengers clearance doesn't mean anything anymore. The Avengers that he was a part of were dissolved at this point. besides, when he left the Avengers, they would have revoked his clearance. That would only be sensible. Your Once-An-Avenger crap doesn't work because at this point we are discussing "New Avengers" a whole new monster. oh, and to use your words, "That works because Justices has super-speed... oh, he doesn't."
that he pulled from his anus??
to BUILD IT and that had to be from scrounged parts, he built the whole thing, by himself, from scrounged parts, in a couple of weeks, in his spare time, and nobody noticed him doing it.
The Danger Room, in it's current incarnation has taken years to get to this point. years of constant upgrades done by Beast, Forge, and eventually the Shi'ar (Who in case you forgot are a few hundred years ahead of us technologically speaking) and Alex understood it well enough to build a reasonable facsimile BY HIMSELF from scrap parts in a few weeks with nobody noticing.
No, telekinetics are not instant, they take time to concieve, to become active will, to materialize, to focus energy, to gesture. Just like it takes time to move your muscles. It is not instant. It may only take a few seconds, but it is a few seconds that Prodigy can use.
So Justice waits until Prodigy stops moving and then lets up? fine, at that point, when he comes to inspect the victim, Prodigy kicks him in the head having just held his breath and relaxed his body to fake unconciousness. So his force field doesn't cut off air, but up above you said it would protect him from gas? this sounds like a move that would kill Prodigy.
This is a prison, and I fancy that I know a few more things about prisons than you do... boyo. and if you recall in the last decade Marvel has been trying to make the 616 reflect reality. This location was introduced in a story written by Bendis after all. relying on drugs ONLY is too stupid even for beurocrats.
You know that moment where they throw up their hands? or that moment when they point at something? or maybe that moment where they ball up their fist? you know how directly after it, their telekinetic power approximates that movement? That's gesturing.
I'm trying to think of another way to phrase my argument because you still aren't understanding. Prodigy knows how Justice will attack. He knows what moves he'll make. you yourself said that He'll know how Justice uses his telekinetic abilities. Well he will use that knowledge to know exactly how to keep Justice on the defensive. he will use that knowledge to make sure he isn't in a position where Justices can encapsulate him, or blanket him, or seize him.
It was a joke, relax. Sorry if I offended you. You want me to try and refute it? FINE; You still don't understand my point. Since Prodigy knows ALL POSSIBLE MOVES JUSTICE WOULD MAKE he can find ways out of them and make sure he is not in a position to be hurt. He will find ways to be so that Justice can't catch him with a blanket or seize him.
I'm not saying it blocks gas. I'm saying it can be avoided. He has the advantage of speed and power. He can break through a few walls.
Let's even say that for a second, Justice's reputation as a hero and his affiliation with groups like the Avengers are nulled: He can still get to the control room faster. Using telekinesis he can accelerate to great speeds while flying.
A) We really don't know how long it took him, and it still had glitches.
Practically instant. A second or two for the hard stuff. The creation of a telekinetic wall is pretty much instant, since it takes little to no time to concieve and is there where he wants it immediately. They really don't need the gesturing. It's a visual thing that not all telekinetics do. Justice among them half the time.
You're the one who said it would cut him off from air. I responded by saying that even then, people go unconscious first. Secondly, Justice can use his telekinetics to see if someone is lying, and by effect, if they're even conscious. Besides, once he's forced to the ground, Justice can just pick him up with his telekinetics.
I know what gesturing is. I also know that telekinetics really don't need to do iit, and Justice doesn't either.
It's just that is having trouble understanding. Not everything can be avoided by seeing it coming. You state that Prodigy will make sure he is in a position that he can avoid something like blanketing, seizing or the like, but he can't. It's a physical impossibility.
No offense taken.
His Avenger's Clearance is worthless since they disbanded. It doesn't mean dick anymore.
So he'll be running into walls then? You make it sound like he has super-speed. The best he can do is go at a running speed. he doesn't have the reaction time necessary to maintain high speeds in a confined environment.
Which means that Prodigy knows exactly how good Justice is and exactly how to lie to him.
Before Prodigy let things get this close, he would have found a way to neutralize Justice's powers.
Worthless as this fight takes AFTER the Avengers dissassembled and there is no one here who could remember that he was an Avenger except Prodigy
Good idea, he should wear himself out before he gets to Prodigy. Using telekinetics exerts energy. He isnt' the Phoenix, using his powers drains him, if slowly, it drains him. So for that little idea to work, he would need a constant forcefield. Or he would need to erect an instantaneous forcefield when he detected that he'd tripped automatic systems, which would not block the gas... or it might.
this would certainly trigger automated defense systems that any person can logically understand are there
That is ONE corridor, and it is for visitors. the inards of the building are very narrow, as seen later on in that same issue where they are down near the Sentry's cell. But you chose not to display pictures of that. You also assume that whoever built this prison is a moron who never planned to have people with healing-factors incarcerated or people with teleportation abilities, or mystical abilities. You're right, prisons are always built by short sighted people... NOT.On the Raft and power dampening
Here are some scans on:
A) The lay-out of the prison.
B) The technology for prisoner-subdueing.
- You were right, the corridors aren't small... they're gigantic.
- Drugged out of his gourd, away from human contact, superpowered chaperone required.
(I know you're thinking: "powers neutralized", but she only comments on the drugs.)
- Remember that gigantic corridor thing? Justice covers these kinds of things in a minute.
Knowing that however, strengthens my argument. There is no way Prodigy will be able to get a collar on Justice or drug him. His telekinetic forcefield will see that. Even then, like I've said, it's highly doubtful that Prodigy will make it to the control room before Justice does, since the corridors to move through are huge, and Justice is a lot faster. Heck, even if Prodigy gets to the control room earlier, he's going to have to hack into the systems and then actually use the technology there to his advantage. Except there isn't actually any real tech that would help him.
But you did say it could block the gas as you said it would protect him from the defenses with a forceifield. and if it blocks gas, then it would sufficate a person to wrap them up or force them down. In fact it would suffocate him to place himself in a force field if it blocked gas. He has no super-speed, and he only has the advantage of power until Prodigy finds the way to take it away from him.
Again, he "Accelerates to great speeds" then he's going to hit walls. Speedsters have enhanced reaction times and reflexes to allow themselves to operate at those speeds and not hit stuff. His reputation is worth dick because, at this point the Avengers were dissassembled at there were no formal Avengers that he'd ever been a part of and no person here to aknowledge that he'd been an Avenger and help him.
Why can't I use this argument? Unless you are going to argue that he built the whole thing post-M-Day, I can argue that he was building it well before he M-Day. and even if he did manage to build it post M-Day, that only doubles my arguments about his brains. and on another matter, so what if it had glitches?! I'd like to see you build and program a regular pc from scrounged parts that works half as well as his Danger Room did.
I've read stuff with plenty of telekinetics, including Justice. EVERY ONE OF THEM except the uber-powered like Phoenix, gestures and moves their arms or such to indicate the action they are going to do. it's as instant as moving any other part of their pdy. so if he attacks with tendrils, or bolts, or fists, or force field (Which he probably will as he will know nothing about Prodigy), then he will miss as Prodigy has better reaction time than Justice. Not to mention that by the time it gets this close Prodigy will have found a way to use the prison's defenses against him and nullify those powers.
No, you said the force fields would protect him from gas attacks, wich means they would cut off air supplies. and further more as at this point Prodigy would know everything Justice knows, he would know what signs Justice looks for to detect lies or conciousness. He could fake truth or unconsciousness easily.
Yes he does. only the most powerful of telekinetics does not gesture. and in any case, it is no more instant than the move ment of a body part. and as I said before, Prodigy has better reaction time.
One, I said that he will be in a position where Justice can't use blanketing or seizing or the like. Two, Justice won't take this tactic immediately as it is more taxing and difficult. so Prodigy will have the chance to get away first.
Prodigy has a great chance to win given the environment suits him better. and as far as Justice becoming a moron...well he did sign up with the SHRA despite the fact that they are mocking his old mates, but whatever. It was a good debate, thanks for the challenge. Prodigy can win.
Running speed? Are you kidding me? It's not a confined environment.
It's his power. It's basically a lie detector. You can't work around it. That's not Justice sensing if you're lying. That's his powers doing so. I doubt Justice himself knows exactly how that works, but it works.
There was a time that stuff like that really exerted Justice's power levels. Now he can do it for a long long time. You're seriously underestimating Justice here. He's one of the most powerful telekinetics around. He doesn't tire so easily.
Funny, look up picture 4 there. That's just before they meet the Sentry.
Doesn't matter. It was shown after M-Day. No use of comics after HoM for Prodigy. That's the rules, boyo. I didn't make them.
