Contest of Marvels II Thread 4

[kytrigger]

Magneto

dunno

 

[wiegeabo]

Thor
Sersi (only because she has a wider variety of powers. Maestro's raw power and intelligence may give others more of a battle later on)

 

[Phaedrus45]

Results So Far:

Thor currently beating Magneto 6-1

Maestro currently tied with Sersi 3-3

 

[Midnight Ice]

Magneto
Sersi

 

[JewishHobbit]

Magneto
Maestro

 

[Phaedrus45]

Final Results:

Thor beat Magneto 6-3

Maestro tied with Sersi 4-4 (Ky didn't vote, and rules state a tie, regardless if owned by two people, is suppose to be a rematch. I'll let Ky make a decision by tomorrow.)

 

[kytrigger]

Well, I'm just got a got a couple of votes for Magneto. It was one of those matches where I really thought he had a good chance, but was pretty sure I would lose.

 

[wiegeabo]

I thought I could get Nimrod through. Maybe even New Sun. I figured Spiral was a lost cause.

 

[Phaedrus45]

BRACKET 7:

Thor (HARLEKIN) bio

VS.

BRACKET 8:

Maestro (KYTRIGGER) bio

 

[Phaedrus45]

LOCATION: STAMFORD (BEFORE CIVIL WAR)

Basically, any information you find about Stamford is fair to use. Remember, this location is populated; so, that might effect your battle somewhat.

 

[Phaedrus45]

Debating May Begin!!!

 

[Harlekin]

OPENING COMMENTS: Thor vs Maestro

Desperate times call for desperate measures.

What does Thor know? He’s facing a Hulk, that’s clear right off the bat. He’s faced the Hulk before, as we all know. They’re roughly the same strength level, and more often than not, they’ll initially stalemate, with the battle ending up with a small victory for either one at the end. It’s important to note these battles since the Maestro is essentially a future Hulk, a lot more stable, but a little weaker.

Let’s review their battles for a moment:
- Thor comes off the best in his early fights with the Hulk, often showing a greater skill to his fighting (such as in Journey into Mystery #112), but both are hindered by involvement from either Namor or the Avengers.
- Up until Namor the Sub-Mariner #35, there is no clear winner, and even here there really isn’t. In this battle between the not-yet-Defenders and Avengers, Hulk comes close to winning thanks to Thor’s hammer having a sixty second limit. It’s a weakness he no longer has.
- The two keep stalemating until Thor #385, where they are evenly matched for a long time. It is important to note that Thor, now without the sixty second weakness, does not fight with the hammer. Nonetheless the Hulk’s strength keeps increasing, giving him the edge. He doesn’t ever knock Thor out, though.
- In Thor #489 both admit to holding back and it is here that Hulk struggles with a weakness; transforming back into a savage form of Bruce Banner. Nonetheless, Thor hands him his ass.
- The closest Thor comes to facing Maestro is in Incredible Hulk (vol. 2) #440, where he faces a Hulk similar to the Maestro. The descriptions of that battle that I’ve found state that Hulk won, but not conclusively, he punched him away far enough so that he could go into hiding, avoiding a nuclear bomb.
- In a fight in the Hulk’s 2001 annual, they both get their licks in, and Thor is able to knock the Hulk out with a lightning bolt. The Hulk ends up delivering a bit of a beat down on the Thor later, again benefiting from his ever-increasing strength.

The Maestro is far from dumb, but he doesn’t have the strength to overcome Thor physically anymore, which was always the Hulk’s greater advantage. But with what I’ll be outlining, especially the physical part will not be overcome by the Maestro.

Let’s take into account the following things:
- Thor is facing the Maestro and knows this. No matter the incarnation really, the Hulk is dangerous, and the Maestro name should tip him off especially.
- He knows the location is Stamford, and he knows that it is populated. Thor’s primary objective will be to take care of this battle as soon as he can. No questions about, he’s going to try and put down the Maestro first chance he gets.
- Maestro will want to engage Thor into physical combat. He’s a strategic genius, but he still craves for a good fight. Thor is the kind of person who can give him that. This is what the Maestro thrives on.

So Thor’s going to want to take Maestro down as soon as possible, and it will most likely be in a physical engagement. How does Thor beat Maestro in this scenario? Pretty simple: the gauntlets of strength that increase Thor’s strength twofold. They can only be used for a short time, but Thor’s not going to be wasting time here.

Thor has no major weaknesses here, and he’ll be going all out to end this as soon as possible. Oddly, the location is an advantage here, giving Thor extra motivation to take down the Maestro quickly. Especially when he learns that the Maestro is essentially an evil version of the Hulk, he’s not going to hesitate to go for the killing blow.

WINNER=THOR

 

[kytrigger]

Thor (HARLEKIN) bio

VS.

BRACKET 8:

Maestro (KYTRIGGER) bio

Really great fight here bewteen two definate heavyweights.

Powers:

Everyone knows Thor

Maestro: The future version of Hulk. He has absorbed even more radiation and basically has the strength of Savage Hulk, the intelligence of Banner, and the mean streak of Joe Fixit.


Prep Time definately goes to Maestro. Every single time the Hulk has fought Thor, Maestro techincally has (since he is just the future version) he definately knows Thor very well.

Thor on the other hand doesn't techinically know Maestro yet. He will look at his pic and probably guess that he's a gamma monster, but that doesn't mean he knows about his fighting skill and intelligence (especially since most gamma people are pretty dumb). Thor can definately go in expecting a brawl, but that is pretty much it.

The location is also a MAJOR advantage for Maestro. There will be tons of innocent people around, and while Thor would love a good fight with Maestro, his first priority will be protecting those people form teh carnage going on around them.

Maestro on teh other hand not only won't care about their lives, but will definately take advantage of this situation forcing Thor to constantly leave himself open to attack to save people. Maestro is a genius at fighting and military tactics and will use this to his advantage.


Now, Thor obviously won't go down easily ( I mean he is Thor after all), but even Thor can onyl take so much punishment before getting either knocked out by Maestro or knocked 10 miles away. And the thing about it is that Thor will gladly die if it meant saving a kid and his puppy, he's a true hero.

Maestro once broke the Hulk's neck (in which it was made clear earlier that his neck was stronger than adamantium) after absolutely destroying him in hand-to-hand combat. If he's not afraid to break his own (past version of himself) neck, he will have absolutely no problems doing this to Thor.


Maestro's strength and intelligence added to teh terrible location for Thor make this a clear win for Maestro.


Winner- Maestro

 

[kytrigger]

OPENING COMMENTS: Thor vs Maestro

Desperate times call for desperate measures.

What does Thor know? He’s facing a Hulk, that’s clear right off the bat.

how on earth is that clear? At most he could think that he's facing a gamma person. There are plenty of grren people in the MU to make it so that Thor doesn't really know what he's facign for certain.

He’s faced the Hulk before, as we all know. They’re roughly the same strength level, and more often than not, they’ll initially stalemate, with the battle ending up with a small victory for either one at the end. It’s important to note these battles since the Maestro is essentially a future Hulk, a lot more stable, but a little weaker.

Agree on the fact that neither has a true definitive win against the other. As for Maestro being weaker, disagree. He is actually stronger than Hulk. The only time he might be weaker is that since he has (somewhat) rational thought, he might not be able to get as mad, somethign that is unproven since Maestro hasn't been seen that much (plus he's still been shown to get pretty angry anyway) . The only time he has ever been "weaker" than Hulk was when they fought in the destroyer armor, and that was because Maestro basically just came back form the dead and was nowhere at his normal strength level.

Let’s review their battles for a moment:
- Thor comes off the best in his early fights with the Hulk, often showing a greater skill to his fighting (such as in Journey into Mystery #112), but both are hindered by involvement from either Namor or the Avengers.
- Up until Namor the Sub-Mariner #35, there is no clear winner, and even here there really isn’t. In this battle between the not-yet-Defenders and Avengers, Hulk comes close to winning thanks to Thor’s hammer having a sixty second limit. It’s a weakness he no longer has.
- The two keep stalemating until Thor #385, where they are evenly matched for a long time. It is important to note that Thor, now without the sixty second weakness, does not fight with the hammer. Nonetheless the Hulk’s strength keeps increasing, giving him the edge. He doesn’t ever knock Thor out, though.
- In Thor #489 both admit to holding back and it is here that Hulk struggles with a weakness; transforming back into a savage form of Bruce Banner. Nonetheless, Thor hands him his ass.
- The closest Thor comes to facing Maestro is in Incredible Hulk (vol. 2) #440, where he faces a Hulk similar to the Maestro. The descriptions of that battle that I’ve found state that Hulk won, but not conclusively, he punched him away far enough so that he could go into hiding, avoiding a nuclear bomb.
- In a fight in the Hulk’s 2001 annual, they both get their licks in, and Thor is able to knock the Hulk out with a lightning bolt. The Hulk ends up delivering a bit of a beat down on the Thor later, again benefiting from his ever-increasing strength.

pretty much agree with them here (i might go back and look at each battle, but it sounds about right). The main thign to note is that for the most part, Hulk beats Thor on sheer strength, but Thor evens it out with actual combat skill. This begs the question of what happens to Thor when he faces Maestro who is at minimum as strong as Hulk and has far superior fighting skills than any other Hulk ever before.

The Maestro is far from dumb, but he doesn’t have the strength to overcome Thor physically anymore, which was always the Hulk’s greater advantage. But with what I’ll be outlining, especially the physical part will not be overcome by the Maestro.

How does he not have the strength anymore? He broke the Hulk's neck, rahter easily I might add. The only time he has been "weak" was because he just came back to life.

Let’s take into account the following things:
- Thor is facing the Maestro and knows this. No matter the incarnation really, the Hulk is dangerous, and the Maestro name should tip him off especially.
- He knows the location is Stamford, and he knows that it is populated. Thor’s primary objective will be to take care of this battle as soon as he can. No questions about, he’s going to try and put down the Maestro first chance he gets.
- Maestro will want to engage Thor into physical combat. He’s a strategic genius, but he still craves for a good fight. Thor is the kind of person who can give him that. This is what the Maestro thrives on.

If Maestro craved a good honest fight out of anyone he wouldn't have fought the Hulk in teh Destroyer armor. He likes fighting still, but LOVES beating his opponent more. He will do whatever he has to to win which involves much more than just hand-to-hand fighting.

So Thor’s going to want to take Maestro down as soon as possible, and it will most likely be in a physical engagement. How does Thor beat Maestro in this scenario? Pretty simple: the gauntlets of strength that increase Thor’s strength twofold. They can only be used for a short time, but Thor’s not going to be wasting time here.

Except that he will HAVE to waste time. He will be andangering hundreds of people wiht this battle.

Another very important thing to note is that Maestro has seen Thor become "overpowered" or stronger than he normally is. All he has to do to combat this is, like you said, take his time. This is where Maestro's Dogs 'O War come into play.

These bastards are basically giant mechanical dogs that Maestro has creted that normally patrol (ie kill people) areound Maestro's city. They are strong enough to be able to actualyl crush Adamantium in 7 seconds. Maestro loves carnage and would bring these machines of his along to attack teh people of Satmford.

Now, of course Thor could handle these thigns, especially with the belt of strength, but they will be his first priority. And even with his belt, they things will take some time to defeat, especially several of them. This is precious time Thor doesn't have since his Belt wears off rather quickly. By the time he gets to Maestro, his "extra strength time will be almost up.

ANd then he is screwed. Once the belt of strength wears off, Thor is actualyl much weaker thna he normally is (the belt just basically drains him) this is why he never wears the thing. SO he might be able to get a few licks in on Maestro with the belt, but he will have nowehre near enough time to actually beat him. One or two punches with the belt will be strong, but nowhere near strong enough to down Maestro. Once ths wears off though, he's dead. He won't have near enough strenght to do anything to Maestro.

Thor has no major weaknesses here, and he’ll be going all out to end this as soon as possible. Oddly, the location is an advantage here, giving Thor extra motivation to take down the Maestro quickly. Especially when he learns that the Maestro is essentially an evil version of the Hulk, he’s not going to hesitate to go for the killing blow.

Thor has a HUGE weakness here in the innocent civilians. Never before has he fought a version of the Hulk and "gone for the killing blow" because of civilians mainly because Thor is somewhat cocky. he is confident that he can save those lives AND fight Hulk at the same time. And while Hulk oftentimes won't try to hurt innocents, Maestro will, which is something new for Thor. Couple this with a few of Maestro's Dog 'O Wars and Thor is finding himself outmatched here. The belt of strength will help him for a little bit, but eventually it will become his downfall.


WINNER-Maestro

 

[Phaedrus45]

Voting May Begin!!!

 

[Harlekin]

I'm not going to rebut, too late for that and it's my own fault I missed the rebuttal anyway, but I'm a little shaky on whether Maestro can take along his mechanical dogs. I'd like a ruling on that.

Thor's my vote, obviously.

 

[Ahura Mazda]

I do not think the dogs should be allowed and I am assuming they are not. However, Maestro has a base strength whih is similar to the original Abomination. He is a cruel version of the Hulk and this is a populated area. I would like to also add that I think Thor would see very quickly he is facing the Hulk because in Incredible Hulk (vol. 2) #440, The Hulk was basically pretending to be Maestro and Maestro also was in Asgard. In any case, given how Thor is likely to batle against the Maestro I have to give it to:

The Maestro

 

[kytrigger]

If the dogs won't be allowed then I obviously won't use them (and will delete that part of the posts if necessary), however, since others have always been allowed to bring along tech with them (like Forge can bring anythign) and since Maestro created them, I figured they could. They are very rarely used, but so is Thor's Belt of Strength which is almost never used.


Maestro

 

[POWdER-man]

Maestro

 

[JewishHobbit]

I read these earlier and had to come back to them. Tough choice, but I'm going with Maestro.

 

[Phaedrus45]

Thor

 

[wiegeabo]

Maestro - populated location really hurts Thor who, as pointed out, will take a beating if it means saving lives.

 

[Phaedrus45]

Final Results:

Maestro defeats Thor 5-2