Sequels Could sinister 6 seriously work?

[Visionary]

It's not about being "realistic." It's about being believable; believable in the sense that a moviegoer can sit in the theatre, knowing it's a superhero movie, and be able to temporarily believe what's happening onscreen is really happening to the characters.

How objectively "realistic" or "unrealistic" (in the sense of "likelihood of happening in the real world as we know it") something is has little bearing. Things like a kid being bitten by a spider and getting powers, though utterly implausible, is something the audience can buy into without much effort. Other things, like bad acting or writing, or ridiculous costumes or nonsensical situations, will take the audience out of the movie and make it harder to enjoy.

Example: Electro's costume from the comics. Though, assuming a man gets Electro's powers the way he does (and a person gets Spider-Man's powers the way he does), then the notion of said man deciding to wear a goofy costume (a guy might wanna wear a goofy costume) is infinitely more plausible than either guy getting powers like that (physically impossible, as far as we understand it) in the first place. However, the costume will detract from the movie. The origins will not.

You're kidding right, thanks for stating the obvious, but you don't know what movie an audience will enjoy as a majority, no matter what you think should or shouldn't be included to make it so-called believable?

 

[ThatDamnNinja]

You're kidding right, thanks for stating the obvious, but you don't know what movie an audience will enjoy as a majority, no matter what you think should or shouldn't be included to make it so-called believable?

You're right. I don't know. Nobody knows. But there are Hollywood people whose job it is to try and predict that. That's why they do what they do and get paid so much for it, because they're able to walk the thin line between believable and unbelievable and churn out something absurd that billions of dollars worth of people worldwide will buy into and suspend their disbelief long enough to enjoy for what it is.

All I (or anyone here) can do is, based on our own opinions, the reactions of people we know, general history, and perhaps a little psychology, is speculate as to what the audience will buy into, or maybe just say what we personally think would work or not. Without treating each other like idiots for having different opinions.

 

[FaT_tONle]

I get a feeling this franchise won't even make it to six movies... its just that they limited themselves from the start... making it all about MJ... not really going outside the box... they really never expanded on the other characters... Brock was killed off... Gwen was a mere distraction... Harry is dead... where else can you go? Maybe drag one more movie... maybe give Gwen a bigger role... keep Jameson and the bugle involved... but where else? It just seems to me they are at a dead end with this franchise. It can't be only about the villains. A Sinister Six would make it like that... I have been just as much an advocator of a Sinister Six as anyone else here... but there are serious concerns... I really have no clue where they go from here... Lizard/Kraven isn't enough to carry a Spiderman movie if its the last.

 

[Blader5489]

I get a feeling this franchise won't even make it to six movies... its just that they limited themselves from the start... making it all about MJ... not really going outside the box... they really never expanded on the other characters... Brock was killed off... Gwen was a mere distraction... Harry is dead... where else can you go? Maybe drag one more movie... maybe give Gwen a bigger role... keep Jameson and the bugle involved... but where else? It just seems to me they are at a dead end with this franchise. It can't be only about the villains. A Sinister Six would make it like that... I have been just as much an advocator of a Sinister Six as anyone else here... but there are serious concerns... I really have no clue where they go from here... Lizard/Kraven isn't enough to carry a Spiderman movie if its the last.

That's pretty narrow minded thinking. First of all, the movies have never been about MJ, they've been about Peter. The stories revolve around his growth as person. SM1 dealt with his origin, SM2 dealt with his identity crisis, and SM3 dealt with his internal struggles. There's still plenty more to tell. Off the top of my head: the marriage, the death of Captain Stacy,and an adaptation of ASM #400.

I also think Harry's death opens more storytelling opportunities than not. The impact of his death on Peter's life (which would compel even more so in a film with the Lizard), plus his absence leaves more room for Gwen.

 

[Jahan]

If they ever were to do a Sinister Six grouping this is how I would do it:
(please take note that Im both a fan of the comics and the movies...so Im aware of continuity and the character origins...Im not some idiot with an internet connection spamming)

The main issue of getting the Sinister Six to work is how you get them together. We cant have them simply saying "Hey we all hate spidey lets work together". Thats how it worked in the comic but after seeing it between Venom and Sandman its a tad stupid and convuleted. Its not very beleivable..I mean it worked in the 60's because comics were meant to be a fun read...no one really thought that one day it would be a massive franchise.(read: Superman marrying off Jimmy Olsen to talking apes)

So how do we get them together?: Heres my idea:

*Adrian Toomes(Vulture): Tycoon. Weapons manufacturer. Sells not only to the military but also supplies Super Villains with tech and weapons. Once Spiderman reveals to the world (on national television and infront of potential shareholders) that hes practically a terrorist (supplying a person with a weapon to blow up stuff?Thats terrorism according to Marvel Secret War) he wants revenge against Spiderman and uses his lackies as well as a powerd weapons suit (the Vulture outfit...think the cartoon but a bit more modern and less 90's) to get it.

*Electro: thug,bank robber, ex-electrician. Gets arrested for bank robbery (guess who stopped him) and gets chosen for medical testing. Turns out hes one of the unlucky souls to be selected by Toomes dirty cop to be sent to Toomes Inc. as a test subject. However he is a success and has an inbuilt power source that gives him his electricity powers (that or he could be a mutant with absorbing powers who happens to absorb too much electricity in the testing and is now a powerhouse)

*Sandman: hes at Toomes Inc's labs. They say they are trying to "help and cure him". Infact they are only trying to design a way to manipulate him so he can be used by Toomes. (this will serve as a way to explain why Sandman would pair with spidermans enemies seeing as spiderman "forgave" him at the end of 3 and doesnt involve his daughter being sick and needing the cash excuse) Used by Toomes using the control device (whatever it is..its a movie theyll think of something)


Now theres a problem with the next 3: Doc Ock, Mysterio and Kraven.

The Problems (and how to solve them):

*Kraven: Apparently he may be in Spiderman 4 facing Spiderman and the lizard. I doubt theyll want to re use him as a villain for the sinister 6 (I know he was one of the original 6) and we dont know how he is defeated: be it arrested or eaten by The Lizard/one of the lizards...well,lizards.

How to solve the problem: Kraven is a tv show personality (in the Ultimate comics). I think they should play on that. Toomes is a tycoon and tycoons make risky choices. If Kraven is arrested at the end of 4 then no one would be interested in him as a tv personality. How about Toomes pays for Kraven (gets a good lawyer, gets out lesser offence..has a shorter sentence) and once hes out he gives him his own TV show. When the proverbial **** hits the fan (ie Toomes evil is revealed) Kraven explains that he only joined Toomes because Toomes promised he would supply him to get rid of "that bothersome nuisance" Spiderman.

*Mysterio:Well the problem is that how can you introduce him? Ex special effects guy? One of Toomes scientists working on solid light imagery that creates fake images to throw off enemy combatants?(Ie a machine that makes it look like theres 100 tanks when theres only 10..but 100 tanks would scare the **** out of any opposing force). Hes a fan favourite and no one is expecting him to be taken seriously as a villain, which is why most of us want Bruce Cambell to play him. I think Bruce could still play him, but would he end up being the comic releif of the group?

How to solve the problem: Make him a special effects worker for Toomes. Head of the special effects team for most of the movies/tv shows that Toomes produces. Once the ****e hiteth the faneth he looses his job and becomes desperate. Toomes knows hes the best and plans to use his abilities (could hint that hes actually a mutant with the ability to create visual and pyshical illusions.)He can be very useful in attack spiderman...especially if they work together.

Doc Ock: most obviously hes dead. There was the hint by Raimi to Molina (actor who played him) that he "wasnt dead he just dissapeared". Theres allways the chance he survived and has spent the years since trying to get the arms off. But like I said, hes dead. But hey its the movies and its based on comics...both known for suspending disbeleif.

How to solve it: Well if he is "alive and well" there are 2 ways to go round it:
1) hes been working away from the public eye, working on new projects. Toomes finds out hes alive and blackmails him (hey, he could be arrested for the damage he caused in SP2 and the attempt to obliterate...well lets face it that Sun thing wouldve killed us all) to help him sort out spiderman.
But seeing as that isnt really good enough reason ("Help me kill spiderman or ill tell people your alive/use your science for evil" "no" *squishes him with tentacles*) theres:
2) Hes alive and hes gone to work for Toomes.He could be there to either work on new projects (after being pardoned for his actions in SP2) or hes there and they are trying to help him remove the robotic arms (Akin to sandman) and theyve placed a mind control thing on the tentacles (where the inhibiter chip was).

also 3rd option: New Doc Ock. Either have it as a bad guy wannabe supplied by Toomes with robotic tentacles
or
Dr Carolyn Trainer, works with Toomes and is the head of a science division who are trying to do projects similair to Ottos project in Spiderman 2, which would explain the need for tentacles. Why she evil? Well shes either in on it with Toomes or her inhibiter chip is damaged/ controlled by Toomes.


Also: a new member for the 6 if they dont want to add any of the above 3 into the movie: Carnage

The sample left at connors lab has been bought by Toomes and they experiment with it to create "the Super Soldier of the future" (can have Peter parker or Nick Fury make a crack about Captain America not needing an alien symbiote to be strong) Carnage can be one of the test subjects: Cletus Kassady. Pyscopath chosen for medical testing (like Electro) symbiote attachment success but ofcourse hes still a raving maniac.

The Names

The names though...I cant imagine J Jonah Jameson making up all the names (itll become gimmicky). So how about Toomes is called "a vulture" for his misdoings in supplying badguys. Spiderman names Electro ("so who are you...no no let me guess. Captain Electric? AC/DC? Electro?" *blasted by electro*) Mysterio? Well he names himself...and spidey laughs. Oh how he laughs. Carnage? Let Cletus scream about it in his cell. How hes "going to escape and cause carnage to the city" Toomes "ofcourse you are Mr Kassady..but first how about we give you this?"...yeah I cant write dialouge to save me life. Or spell it.


The Story

So story wise this would be:
*Spiderman getting on with his life (J.Jonah Jameson is a dick. MJ is still whining like the annoying,badly written character she is, Aunt May is the wise old sage she allways has been)
*Goes to publicity show for Toomes Inc (kinda like when Osbourne showed off the goblin gear to the Military Generals) a cameo of Nick Fury would be cool. Tony Stark even cooler
*Spidey stops Electro from robbing a bank. Gets pretty hurt in process
*Shows audience that Toomes is behind it
*Peter is working in partnership with Journalist Ben Ulrich who is investigating Toomes Inc*
*They go through a Toomes factory and get caught by gaurds....not before Peter recognises one of the suits/weapons being made (electros gear)*
*Spidey goes back to investigate...over sees Toomes telling Electro to get rid of Ulrich...states that hes getting too close and knows too much*
*Spidey follows Electro (who got a bit of a head start on him) to Ulrichs house/apartment
*Ulrich escape in a taxi, closely followed by Electro through New York*
*Big battle. Electro doesnt hold back, blasting bolts everywhere, causing alot of damage (use your imaginations for how cool a fight it could be..Im not doing the job for you )
*After finally beating the **** out of Electro he runs away and smashes through into Toomes office. Hes bloody, hes breathing heavy.. "What is the meaning of this" "Spuh..spuh..*pants*..Spiderman is..following me" "You fool! Why did you bring him here?"
*Spidey swings through and finally connects Electro to Toomes. Ulrich and police come up through an elevator.
* Toomes uses the usuall vilain shlock of "damn you spiderman youll pay for this" and escapes with electro*

Thats like the first 50 mins (could be more could be less) of the film. The rest of the film is Toomes and the other 5 attacking Spidey

Another idea for the story is that spidey faces numerous villains during the start, such as Mysterio,electro and sandman against spidey before Spidey learns and reveals that Toomes is behind it. Toomes reason will need to be beefed out a bit more...hes going to need a reason for why he funds Super Villains...altough it could be that there isnt much military interest and he figured the stuff could be used by villains to rob banks and get cash for him


So If any of you lot have any other ideas/criticisms bring em to me. Im happy to read what youve got to say.
omes

 

[Visionary]

I love it when a person's first post is as long as a short novel, welcome to the Hype, Jahan.

 

[Jahan]

I love it when a person's first post is as long as a short novel, welcome to the Hype, Jahan.

Ha ha ha! Shows who are the lurkers before joining eh?

 

[TomPiltoff]

First off, I think Batman's suit in Begins looked horrible (even moreso in TDK), same for Green Goblin's suit in Spidey, and I liked both films. So, I'm not seeing where you're going with this.

Because it seems like your point is 'it's a superhero movie, it doesn't have to be realistic'.

I simply disagree. Just because it's a movie about fantastical elements doesn't mean that just anything can happen.

 

[newlownorder]

Probably not, he couldn't make 3 villians work, can't see how 6 would make things beter.

 

[Blader5489]

Probably not, he couldn't make 3 villians work, can't see how 6 would make things beter.

Three villains "worked," but only because they corresponded to three different (albeit converging) plots. The difference was that SM1 and 2 were able to integrate their villains into the main plot (only one villain = greater significance in the overall film).

Obviously, you cannot have six plots weaving together in one film. The best, and only IMO, way to do a Sinister Six film is to develop one main villain and make the other five into (unwilling) pawns.

 

[Visionary]

Because it seems like your point is 'it's a superhero movie, it doesn't have to be realistic'.

I simply disagree. Just because it's a movie about fantastical elements doesn't mean that just anything can happen.

I don't know of any superhero movie that's realistic...or anything close to it. It's just something fanboys bellow, about their favorite comic book film to make it seem special. I guess it's a way of pretending that they're not watching a comic book movie, but they are, mainly because of its fantastical stories, places, situations and characters.

 

[Blader5489]

I don't know of any superhero movie that's realistic...or anything close to it. It's just something fanboys bellow, about their favorite comic book film to make it seem special. I guess it's a way of pretending that they're not watching a comic book movie, but they are, mainly because of its fantastical stories, places, situations and characters.

No one is arguing that superhero movies are intrinsically realistic (they aren't). But the point is that you can only take a suspension of disbelief so far before the movie becomes a parody of the genre.

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

Probably not, he couldn't make 3 villians work, can't see how 6 would make things beter.

He defenitley made 3 Villians work. He gave them all not only a good amount of screentime, but enough to conclude/cliff hang the storylines of each Villian. I'm sorry if my post is confusing, but what I mean is that the Villians fit in the film in maultiple ways. As I said before, the Villians fit into the revenge storyline, they all kept us interested in what is going ot happen to them as the iflm progresses, and more. Those are just some of the reasons why I think the Sinister Six could work. as long as there is a Storyline where the Villians have a good enough screentime and we get a good idea of who that character is and how they progress, then I tihnk it would work great. There are other reasons to.

 

[Venom 1988]

I forgot what the hell you guys are even arguing about

 

[Venom 1988]

He defenitley made 3 Villians work. He gave them all not only a good amount of screentime, but enough to conclude/cliff hang the storylines of each Villian. I'm sorry if my post is confusing, but what I mean is that the Villians fit in the film in maultiple ways. As I said before, the Villians fit into the revenge storyline, they all kept us interested in what is going ot happen to them as the iflm progresses, and more. Those are just some of the reasons why I think the Sinister Six could work. as long as there is a Storyline where the Villians have a good enough screentime and we get a good idea of who that character is and how they progress, then I tihnk it would work great. There are other reasons to.

Except they didnt get a good amount. Sandman and especially Eddie Brock needed much more screen time. I didnt get the whole stalkerish vibe from Brock that I did when I read the novilization and when Raimi and Topher kept on describing him. Its like half of the things Topher said about Brock ended up getting cut out. For instance he says he had a bad childhood that was basically opposite of peter's, but there was nothing in the movie to indicate this whatsoever.

 

[GoldGoblin]

They could make Mysterio the main villain and he could create an illusion and special fx,gadgets,etc. where it looks like there are five other villains with him.Like the other five members could be illusions at times,and sometimes they could be physical robots.Or Mysterio could mix and match them.

Then at the end of the movie when you find out there wasn't six villains,just one,then the moviegoers wouldn't complain that the other five villains didn't get a back story,because they never really existed.

Maybe this way we could get dead villains to return as members of the Sinister Six,and the moviegoers will be like the GG,Venom,and Doc Ock died, so how come they just appear in this movie with no explanation of why there alive.

The moviegoers could also be like why is Sandman a villain again when he turned good in SM3,same thing with New goblin.Moviegoers would be like he turned into spidey's ally at the end of SM3,and he died,so why is he in this movie,and why is he fighting spidey again.

Then you find out that they were just Mysterio's illusions/robots,and that he was inspired by them,so he created them in their image.

This way also fans can get more Doc Ock,Venom,Sandman,GG,and New Goblin.Or maybe you can replace New Goblin with someone else,because he turned good and helped spidey,so Mysterio might no longer idolize him.

^
And we could get another new villain this way,like Shocker or Rhino.

 

[ANTOINE X]

it could work as the 6th movie(no pun intended). they could set up storylines in 4&5 and then in number 6 have it be one major fight and not have to worry about character development.

That s exactly what I was thinking + They don't really need to follow the comics book they can replace octopus and sandman with scorpion and rhino and have kingin as the boss.

 

[Visionary]

No one is arguing that superhero movies are intrinsically realistic (they aren't). But the point is that you can only take a suspension of disbelief so far before the movie becomes a parody of the genre.

What if the majority are entertained with what you think is a parody of the genre. This is why I'm saying Sinister Six could work with the right director, story and cast. And you don't have to copy the storyline from the comics down to a science either. Normal people already know going into this genre of films, that they have to suspend disbelief to no ends. It's the nature of the beast, it's only fans who are starving for realism that doesn't exist in this genre.

 

[Blader5489]

What if the majority are entertained with what you think is a parody of the genre.

But they aren't, history has proven that. See: Superman III, Batman & Robin, Blade Trinity.

There is a certain degree of realism that superhero films need to follow or else their credibility is compromised. Even the comic books themselves are realistic to an extent. You can't just have anything happen, which is what you're talking about. Suspending disbelief to no ends means you accept any zany, off-the-wall aspect of the genre. And when that happens, you get something like Batman & Robin, which nobody was entertained with.

 

[GoldGoblin]

This is the only way for us to get a Sinister Six with dead characters returning as some of the members,and without giving all of the new members back stories....

They could make Mysterio the main villain and he could create an illusion and special fx,gadgets,etc. where it looks like there are five other villains with him.Like the other five members could be illusions at times,and sometimes they could be physical robots.Or Mysterio could mix and match them.

Then at the end of the movie when you find out there wasn't six villains,just one,then the moviegoers wouldn't complain that the other five villains didn't get a back story,because they never really existed.

Maybe this way we could get dead villains to return as members of the Sinister Six,and the moviegoers will be like the GG,Venom,and Doc Ock died, so how come they just appear in this movie with no explanation of why there alive.

The moviegoers could also be like why is Sandman a villain again when he turned good in SM3,same thing with New goblin.Moviegoers would be like he turned into spidey's ally at the end of SM3,and he died,so why is he in this movie,and why is he fighting spidey again.

Then you find out that they were just Mysterio's illusions/robots,and that he was inspired by them,so he created them in their image.

This way also fans can get more Doc Ock,Venom,Sandman,GG,and New Goblin.Or maybe you can replace New Goblin with someone else,because he turned good and helped spidey,so Mysterio might no longer idolize him.

^
And we could get another new villain this way,like Shocker or Rhino.

 

[Visionary]

But they aren't, history has proven that. See: Superman III, Batman & Robin, Blade Trinity.

There is a certain degree of realism that superhero films need to follow or else their credibility is compromised. Even the comic books themselves are realistic to an extent. You can't just have anything happen, which is what you're talking about. Suspending disbelief to no ends means you accept any zany, off-the-wall aspect of the genre. And when that happens, you get something like Batman & Robin, which nobody was entertained with.

Oh come the hell on, you're naming sh:tty movies. Which has nothing to do with the content of realism, more like sh:tism. The truth is, Lord of the Rings has LESS realism than all three of those movies combined. But because it entertained the hell out of many of people, they suspended disbelief like a MoFo. Talking trees anyone.

 

[UltimateJustin]

Oh come the hell on, you're naming sh:tty movies. Which has nothing to do with the content of realism, more like sh:tism. The truth is, Lord of the Rings has LESS realism than all three of those movies combined. But because it entertained the hell out of many of people, they suspended disbelief like a MoFo. Talking trees anyone.

Superman III is dopestyle.

 

[November Rain]

It can work but it won't be good.

Besides, if we are being realistic, spidey can't take on six villains

and it really brings nothing to the table storywise..

 

[Jahan]

All that time and no one reads my above post

 

[srnrew]