Arrowverse General CRISIS on Infinite Earths - 5 show crossover (TAG SPOILERS!)

[vantheman77]

So looking back at this event, do you guys feel like the expensive cameos that we got justified the smaller (cheaper looking) scale battle sequences that we were given? Or would you guys have sacrificed a few of the cameos for better quality scenes?

I am still trying to figure out on why Shipp's Flash to die seeing as how sacrifice made no real difference in the end. At least Oliver's first death led to him becoming the Spectre.

I could have done without some of the cameos, unless they had them team up with the current Arrowverse heroes like Earth-90 Flash did.

 

[famicommander]

I like the cameos. I'd have preferred larger roles, but tying these shows into the Arrowverse is worth any short term sacrifices.

Especially if it means we can eventually have more crossovers. Like when the multiverse gets rediscovered, maybe we could have a Titans crossover. Or they could bring back Ashley Scott for a Birds of Prey reprisal, especially considering that show's Dinah plays Alice/Beth on Batwoman.

 

[herolee10]

What's also frustrating is that they didn't even bother explaining on why the events in this Crisis differed from the original timeline. Based on what was revealed about the future in Arrow and Flash:

- Oliver died (presumably a lot later into Crisis event) and never gained the ability to rewrite reality. Star City never recovered and turned out for the worse 20 years later.

- Barry left a video message for Nora.

- Reverse Flash played a role in the Crisis.

- There was no merger of Earths.

See this is why MG should never be left in charge in mapping out the logic of anything too sophisticated because he has repeatedly shown that he lacks the intelligence in creating anything that's cohesive and makes sense.

I could have done without some of the cameos, unless they had them team up with the current Arrowverse heroes like Earth-90 Flash did.

I still can't understand on how anyone could fail to take full advantage in having the likes of Brandon Routh reprising his role as Superman and Kevin Conroy making his live action debut as Bruce Wayne.

There are so many cameos and regulars that I could have lived without seeing in this crossover just to have those two featured heavily throughout the crossover. I get that they need to place an emphasis on their show's leads but I really believe that anyone more capable could have figured out on how to present the best of both worlds.

 

[Sithborg]

Or, and bear with me on this, a lot of these are minor details that only obsessive compulsive nerds really worry about.

 

[herolee10]

Or, and bear with me on this, a lot of these are minor details that only obsessive compulsive nerds really worry about.

Minor details are one thing. However, plot inconsistencies and bad writing is another. There's only so much bad writing that a person can take before it takes them out of programming.

 

[vantheman77]

What's also frustrating is that they didn't even bother explaining on why the events in this Crisis differed from the original timeline. Based on what was revealed about the future in Arrow and Flash:

- Oliver died (presumably a lot later into Crisis event) and never gained the ability to rewrite reality. Star City never recovered and turned out for the worse 20 years later.

- Barry left a video message for Nora.

- Reverse Flash played a role in the Crisis.

- There was no merger of Earths.

See this is why MG should never be left in charge in mapping out the logic of anything too sophisticated because he has repeatedly shown that he lacks the intelligence in creating anything that's cohesive and makes sense.

I still can't understand on how anyone could fail to take full advantage in having the likes of Brandon Routh reprising his role as Superman and Kevin Conroy making his live action debut as Bruce Wayne.

There are so many cameos and regulars that I could have lived without seeing in this crossover just to have those two featured heavily throughout the crossover. I get that they need to place an emphasis on their show's leads but I really believe that anyone more capable could have figured out on how to present the best of both worlds.

As we've discussed before, the best they could come up with for Brandon Routh's Superman was to battle Tyler Hoechlin's Superman instead of teaming up with him and Supergirl to battle the Anti-Monitor. Look at the climax when Superman, Supergirl, and Martian Manhunter battled him when he turned into a giant. I'd imagine Brandon Routh's Superman being involved.

Kevin Conroy's Bruce Wayne could have directed the heroes from behind the scenes in battling the Anti-Monitor and the Shadow Demons. I wanted the past film and TV heroes to team-up in helping the Arrowverse heroes in saving the Earths.

Do you know all of this could have been avoided if they used the Waverider to travel back in time to the Dawn of Time and prevent the Monitor from creating the Anti-Monitor? Or that Harbinger could have saved the cameoed film and TV heroes from the other heroes?

 

[herolee10]

As we've discussed before, the best they could come up with for Brandon Routh's Superman was to battle Tyler Hoechlin's Superman instead of teaming up with him and Supergirl to battle the Anti-Monitor. Look at the climax when Superman, Supergirl, and Martian Manhunter battled him when he turned into a giant. I'd imagine Brandon Routh's Superman being involved.

Kevin Conroy's Bruce Wayne could have directed the heroes from behind the scenes in battling the Anti-Monitor and the Shadow Demons. I wanted the past film and TV heroes to team-up in helping the Arrowverse heroes in saving the Earths.

Do you know all of this could have been avoided if they used the Waverider to travel back in time to the Dawn of Time and prevent the Monitor from creating the Anti-Monitor? Or that Harbinger could have saved the cameoed film and TV heroes from the other heroes?

If anything, I was hoping that Brandon's Superman would leave some kind of an positive impression on Tyler's version that would push the latter to be a better hero. Keep in mind that I was prepared to see Brandon's Superman die in this crossover but only under the context where he went down fighting heroically against the Anti-Monitor and after giving Tyler's Superman some good parting words.

Also, in regards to the time traveling aspect, I think it was stated the Anti-Monitor was always going to be inevitable because even if they had stopped one version of the Monitor from creating the Anti-Monitor, there will always be another version of the Monitor who would end up succeeding due to the limitless Multi-verse.

 

[Dark Raven]

Also, in regards to the time traveling aspect, I think it was stated the Anti-Monitor was always going to be inevitable because even if they had stopped one version of the Monitor from creating the Anti-Monitor, there will always be another version of the Monitor who would end up succeeding due to the limitless Multi-verse.

If the Anti-Monitor was inevitable, Iron Man should really have shown up in a cameo at the end to snap him out of existence.

 

[vantheman77]

If anything, I was hoping that Brandon's Superman would leave some kind of an positive impression on Tyler's version that would push the latter to be a better hero. Keep in mind that I was prepared to see Brandon's Superman die in this crossover but only under the context where he went down fighting heroically against the Anti-Monitor and after giving Tyler's Superman some good parting words.

Also, in regards to the time traveling aspect, I think it was stated the Anti-Monitor was always going to be inevitable because even if they had stopped one version of the Monitor from creating the Anti-Monitor, there will always be another version of the Monitor who would end up succeeding due to the limitless Multi-verse.

A passing of the Superman torch from Superman to another. In the case of Smallville, I was hoping for a passing of the TV Superman torch from Tom Welling to Tyler Hoechlin.

Guys, the second issue of the 100-page Crisis On Infinite Earths special has been released in Wal-Mart. You will not believe what Felicity Smoak's role was and why she didn't appear in the Crisis crossover.

Spoiler

Felicity travels to Oa with The Ray and Nyssa Al Ghul and catches a glimpse of the Book of Knowledge. She's the one who told the Monitor about the Paragons and which ones to choose, though not all of them she knew. She didn't know who the Paragons of Courage and Truth are.

She also told Barry to find and use the Lazarus Pit to resurrect Oliver.

 

[SupermanFan]

I just realised a big F up in this crossover so Cryer Lex said to Tom Welling Clark that on his Earth that it would be ridiculous for Clark Kent to be Superman. Fine at that point but if Lex still believes that after the crossover then he’s an idiot. Why? Because at the end of episode 2 where Routh Clark is talking to Routh Ray & behind them is Tyler Clark with Cryer Lex stood at the other side in that prison thing. So he can see him.

 

[SupermanFan]

If anything, I was hoping that Brandon's Superman would leave some kind of an positive impression on Tyler's version that would push the latter to be a better hero. Keep in mind that I was prepared to see Brandon's Superman die in this crossover but only under the context where he went down fighting heroically against the Anti-Monitor and after giving Tyler's Superman some good parting words.

So basically if they’d done exactly what you wanted/thought then you’d have accepted it. That was never gonna happen cause they don’t know what you’re thinking. To me all that says is you’ll never be pleased.

 

[herolee10]

So basically if they’d done exactly what you wanted/thought then you’d have accepted it. That was never gonna happen cause they don’t know what you’re thinking. To me all that says is you’ll never be pleased.

And here I thought that we had gotten past throwing petty insults.

More like wasted potential imho. I don't think a lot of us here was expecting to see Brandon's KC Superman go out without putting in a good fight against the Anti-Monitor.

It's not so much not doing what I wanted to see (scene by scene) but failing to capitalize on the goldmine that they had at their disposal. MG's biggest problem was that he was too focused on his cameos and not on the substance of the story itself.

 

[Dark Raven]

I just realised a big F up in this crossover so Cryer Lex said to Tom Welling Clark that on his Earth that it would be ridiculous for Clark Kent to be Superman. Fine at that point but if Lex still believes that after the crossover then he’s an idiot. Why? Because at the end of episode 2 where Routh Clark is talking to Routh Ray & behind them is Tyler Clark with Cryer Lex stood at the other side in that prison thing. So he can see him.

But even if he saw Routh Clark and Routh Ray, he might still not think Tyler Clark is Superman. He might just think it's different on different earths, just like both Ray and Clark-96 have the likeness of Routh, or how Welling Clark looked different from Routh Clark or Tyler Clark.

 

[Dr.]

In the pre-Crisis continuity, Lex knew Supergirl’s secret identity. Is that still the case? And did he ever know Superman’s secret?

It’s one thing for the morally ambiguous Lena to possess such sensitive information. But for Lex to have it seems problematic* for the long-term Supergirl narrative. Likewise if Lex is a special guest-villain on the upcoming Superman & Lois.

*Obviously, when Lex died, the "problem" was solved. But then... he came back.

 

[Dark Raven]

In the pre-Crisis continuity, Lex knew Supergirl’s secret identity. Is that still the case? And did he ever know Superman’s secret?

It’s one thing for the morally ambiguous Lena to possess such sensitive information. But for Lex to have it seems problematic* for the long-term Supergirl narrative. Likewise if Lex is a special guest-villain on the upcoming Superman & Lois.

*Obviously, when Lex died, the "problem" was solved. But then... he came back.

I think he does know her identity still. Didn't he suggest to Lena when she woke up in the last episode that Kara has been lying to her all this time, whereas Lex will tell her the truth.

 

[Flash525]

I think he does know her identity still. Didn't he suggest to Lena when she woke up in the last episode that Kara has been lying to her all this time, whereas Lex will tell her the truth.

But did Lex ever meet Kara Danvers during Crisis? I can't even remember now.

 

[Dark Raven]

But did Lex ever meet Kara Danvers during Crisis? I can't even remember now.

I don't think so, but presumably he still remembers everything from before he died and was brought back by the Monitor. What else would he mean anyway if he's telling Lena again that Kara and her friends have been lying to her all this time and Lena knows what he's referring to?

 

[vantheman77]

And here I thought that we had gotten past throwing petty insults.

More like wasted potential imho. I don't think a lot of us here was expecting to see Brandon's KC Superman go out without putting in a good fight against the Anti-Monitor.

It's not so much not doing what I wanted to see (scene by scene) but failing to capitalize on the goldmine that they had at their disposal. MG's biggest problem was that he was too focused on his cameos and not on the substance of the story itself.

Hence why it was fan service over storytelling.

Yes, Lex did meet Kara Danvers when he returned in the Batwoman part.

 

[Prison Mike]

So...Lex knows Supergirl is Kara Danvers. He knows Kara Danvers is cousins with Clark Kent. He knows Clark Kent is Superman in other universes. But he can’t believe that his universe Clark Kent is Superman?

 

[Dark Raven]

Maybe he's not really a stable genius.

 

[Sithborg]

And here I thought that we had gotten past throwing petty insults.

More like wasted potential imho. I don't think a lot of us here was expecting to see Brandon's KC Superman go out without putting in a good fight against the Anti-Monitor.

It's not so much not doing what I wanted to see (scene by scene) but failing to capitalize on the goldmine that they had at their disposal. MG's biggest problem was that he was too focused on his cameos and not on the substance of the story itself.

More like addressing your specific complaints with Hoechlin's Superman. Which many of us are kind of tired of.

So...Lex knows Supergirl is Kara Danvers. He knows Kara Danvers is cousins with Clark Kent. He knows Clark Kent is Superman in other universes. But he can’t believe that his universe Clark Kent is Superman?

Arrogance is a hell of a drug.

 

[flickchick85]

Wait, when did they have Lex mention that Kara Danvers and Clark Kent are cousins? Because that’s not supposed to be a thing. When Clark made his first appearance on SG, Kara told Cat Grant that she knew him through their mutual friendship with Jimmy Olsen. Kara Danvers and Clark Kent are not supposed to be cousins.

I wouldn’t be surprised if MG screwed that up, but in the original SG continuity that definitely wasn’t supposed to be something people knew.

 

[Dark Raven]

Wait, when did they have Lex mention that Kara Danvers and Clark Kent are cousins? Because that’s not supposed to be a thing. When Clark made his first appearance on SG, Kara told Cat Grant that she knew him through their mutual friendship with Jimmy Olsen. Kara Danvers and Clark Kent are not supposed to be cousins.

I wouldn’t be surprised if MG screwed that up, but in the original SG continuity that definitely wasn’t supposed to be something people knew.

It's possible someone said that. All these heroes are rather open about things and speak too freely for people to hear. And there's always minimum security. For example, anyone can walk into Star Labs.

Doesn't Lex Luthor know Barry Allen is the Flash now and that Kate Kane is Batwoman? They had their masks off during that period.

Also, in all that time they were stranded at the Vanishing Point, I find it hard to believe everyone referred to Kara as Supergirl and not by her name.

 

[herolee10]

More like addressing your specific complaints with Hoechlin's Superman. Which many of us are kind of tired of.



Arrogance is a hell of a drug.

Take a look again. There is a difference between having issues with a character and having issues with how they (and others associated with them) are used.

 

[Flash525]

It's possible someone said that. All these heroes are rather open about things and speak too freely for people to hear. And there's always minimum security. For example, anyone can walk into Star Labs.

Understatement of the century.

Also, in all that time they were stranded at the Vanishing Point, I find it hard to believe everyone referred to Kara as Supergirl and not by her name.

As Supergirl, isn’t she also known by her Kryptonian name (Kara Zor El?); it’s just the Danvers label that people should be unaware of, just as Superman is sometimes known as Kal El.