BvS David S. Goyer IS the Script Writer! - Part 3

[DA_Champion]

Hi guys. Just want to ask a few questions about Goyer to the people who are much more knowledgeable than me on the subject. It's because I want to get my facts straight about him and his work, before passing any judgement:

(Also I'm not here to start any argument or looking for opinions, just legitimately want some facts)

1. Was Goyer or Nolan responsible for TDKT's different from the comics portrayal of Batman?
2. Was Zack Snyder or Goyer the one who decided to have Supes kill Zod?
3. Was Goyer responsible for the inadequate handling of events after the death of Zod in MOS?
4. Does Goyer like to stuff his own concepts onto superhero characters and not really understand their original themes as well as he should.

And for the record, I loved MOS, love ZS's work and don't really like Nolan's Batman portrayal (except Batman Begins).

1) Goyer wrote the script for Batman Begins, but was less involved with the sequels, though it's hard to tell who did what as he still has story credit. It's Nolan who wanted the Batman mythos stripped to its minimalist essential. Goyer was less involved with TDK and TDKR, though he is the one who pushed for the inclusion of Talia and Catwoman.

2) Snyder's idea.

3) Don't know.

4) Don't know.

 

[LamboMan]

^^ Thanks! Catwoman was one of the better things in TDKR. Hmm, so I may be wrong about Goyer.

- Introduction of contemporary political themes with some development but lack of resolution and integration within the broader plot;
- Grandiose speeches about glorious destiny from father figures;
- Compelling character arcs for the tertiary characters;
- A technologically-convoluted McGuffin, like the bomb in TDKR or the Codex in MoS;
- "Realism";

Though he still seems to be a problem in many areas.

 

[BatLobster]

That's not true about Catwoman actually. It was Jonah Nolan who pushed for her the hardest. Chris and Goyer were more initially resistant. Says so in the Making of TDK Trilogy book. It was also actually Chris who felt strongly that the League of Shadows needed to return, so I doubt he needed much convincing to include Talia. Goyer is the one who first brought Bane to the table though. Nolan said he wanted a physical antagonist, so Goyer presented an idea for a "Nolanized" Bane that he was able to get Nolan on board with.

Goyer and Nolan pretty much sat in a room together to come up with the story beats for both Batman sequels and MoS. So he was pretty consistently a part of the outlining process, but as with any collaboration we can never quite know who came up with what.

So yeah, Goyer ain't all bad. Both him and Nolan are fantastic structuralists with strong core ideas. But having a another writer involved like Terrio or Jonah (and Chris) can help elevate something from good to great.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

I really enjoy what he did for both Batman and Superman
I trust him with the script

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

That's not true about Catwoman actually. It was Jonah Nolan who pushed for her the hardest. Chris and Goyer were more initially resistant. Says so in the Making of TDK Trilogy book. It was also actually Chris who felt strongly that the League of Shadows needed to return, so I doubt he needed much convincing to include Talia. Goyer is the one who first brought Bane to the table though. Nolan said he wanted a physical antagonist, so Goyer presented an idea for a "Nolanized" Bane that he was able to get Nolan on board with.

Goyer and Nolan pretty much sat in a room together to come up with the story beats for both Batman sequels and MoS. So he was pretty consistently a part of the outlining process, but as with any collaboration we can never quite know who came up with what.

So yeah, Goyer ain't all bad. Both him and Nolan are fantastic structuralists with strong core ideas. But having a another writer involved like Terrio or Jonah (and Chris) can help elevate something from good to great.

I think Goyer is good at finding a base for other writers to spring off from. Chris Terrio's done ONLY ensemble work, so I'm sure the amount of characters won't throw him off.

 

[Bwahaha!]

I really enjoy what he did for both Batman and Superman
I trust him with the script

I'm with you. Was impressed with Goyer's writing. I also love Terrio. Best of both worlds, perhaps? I also read on some comic site that Terrio mainly rewrote the last act. So the first 2/3 of BvS may be pretty much Goyer. Though this hasn't been confirmed.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

I'm with you. Was impressed with Goyer's writing. I also love Terrio. Best of both worlds, perhaps? I also read on some comic site that Terrio mainly rewrote the last act. So the first 2/3 of BvS may be pretty much Goyer. Though this hasn't been confirmed.

Terrio's involvement could hopefully make this an even better movie

 

[roach]

Wait... So in other words it's NOT a page one re-write? It's still working off of Goyer's script then?

It's not the final film credits...the writing credits will be determined by the WGA when WB submits them.

 

[BatLobster]

I wonder if Snyder will still get a story credit since the original reports were that he and Goyer were writing the script.

 

[Steamteck]

Terrio is the primary screenwriter.

Honestly , that's the first thing at all about this film that's made me uneasy. I have no clue if he has any clue about the genre and characters. One can write well about other things and do abysmally with these characters and this genre.

Goyer may not be perfect but I've really liked what he's done with the Superhero properties he's worked on.

 

[Kevin Smith]

I liked all of Faora's lines in MoS, and Col. Hardy's corresponding lines too.

"A good death is its own reward".

I just rolled my eyes when Col Hardy said that. I was like oh come on... that's like Lifetime drama 101 right there. Geeze.

 

[Kevin Smith]

I love moments in CBM's that are like "Release the World Engine!!"

Being able to say **** like that is one of the main reasons to actually get into the super villain business in the first place. You get to wake up look at yourself in the mirror and say to yourself, "That's right... Today I am releasing the mutha-cussing World Engine!"

LMAO

 

[Steamteck]

1) Goyer wrote the script for Batman Begins, but was less involved with the sequels, though it's hard to tell who did what as he still has story credit. It's Nolan who wanted the Batman mythos stripped to its minimalist essential. Goyer was less involved with TDK and TDKR, though he is the one who pushed for the inclusion of Talia and Catwoman.

.

By far my favorite of the trilogy is Batman Begin's

 

[Kevin Smith]

I liked the over-the-top dialogue moments. Reminds me of a classic silver age comic or something.

"I will find him!!!!"

"Release the world engine!"

"maybe.....but I'm not going to let that stop me from trying"

"You're a monster Zod, and I'm going to stop you!"

I thought they were pretty bad. I mean the last one's okay but I have honestly read comics with better dialogue than much of what MOS had. Including silver age ones if you can believe that.

 

[Steamteck]

I just rolled my eyes when Col Hardy said that. I was like oh come on... that's like Lifetime drama 101 right there. Geeze.

I loved that line and the looks they exchanged. to each their own.

 

[Kevin Smith]

I loved that line and the looks they exchanged. to each their own.

I just felt it was lazy and predictable for him to have said it. I like mouthed it before he said it lol.


But yeah, to each their own...good-death-reward.

 

[The Endless]

The only line i didn't like was Superman's "You're a monster Zod... and i'm going to stop you!"

It's just so... meh. Anti climatic. Batman said something similar to Bane in their final showdown in Rises.

 

[Sharkboy]

Honestly , that's the first thing at all about this film that's made me uneasy. I have no clue if he has any clue about the genre and characters. One can write well about other things and do abysmally with these characters and this genre.

Goyer may not be perfect but I've really liked what he's done with the Superhero properties he's worked on.

I'd rather someone who knows how to write a legit script, rather than someone who knows about the source material, one can be learnt easy, the other not so much.

The fact that people actually have to discuss whether he's done any good at all even in the GOOD projects he's involved with already tells you that he's not good enough for this project, certainly not when he's given the keys to the DC kingdom.

 

[BatLobster]

Honestly , that's the first thing at all about this film that's made me uneasy. I have no clue if he has any clue about the genre and characters. One can write well about other things and do abysmally with these characters and this genre.

Goyer may not be perfect but I've really liked what he's done with the Superhero properties he's worked on.

I agree, to me Terrio is more of a wild card and not the automatic slam dunk that some are acting like. He wrote one very good script that happened to win him an Oscar, but as of now we have no idea if he was doing a favor for Ben or if it's truly passionate about the material and has a take on it.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

The dialog in ARGO was very good. If he punches some sruff up and Goyer in capacity as a producer helps with adapting source material ideas and characters that sounds good to me.

 

[roach]

I agree, to me Terrio is more of a wild card and not the automatic slam dunk that some are acting like. He wrote one very good script that happened to win him an Oscar, but as of now we have no idea if he was doing a favor for Ben or if it's truly passionate about the material and has a take on it.

Terrio does not work for Ben...Ben did not bring him in...WB did. He works for WB.

 

[BatLobster]

Obviously. But c'mon, it's kind of hard to believe that it was a situation where Terrio got hired and Ben was all like, "Chris you're working on this movie too? Woah, what a huge coincidence! Who'd have thought we'd be working on the same movie again so soon? If I knew they were looking for another writer I totally would've recommended you weeks ago!" Especially if the rumors are to believed that Ben was the main one unsatisfied with the original script in the first place.

 

[InJustice]

I agree, to me Terrio is more of a wild card and not the automatic slam dunk that some are acting like. He wrote one very good script that happened to win him an Oscar, but as of now we have no idea if he was doing a favor for Ben or if it's truly passionate about the material and has a take on it.

And I thought I was the only one who was skeptical of Terrio, only because he's unproven and has only written one major script that won an oscar.

 

[Bwahaha!]

Obviously. But c'mon, it's kind of hard to believe that it was a situation where Terrio got hired and Ben was all like, "Chris you're working on this movie too? Woah, what a huge coincidence! Who'd have thought we'd be working on the same movie again so soon? If I knew they were looking for another writer I totally would've recommended you weeks ago!" Especially if the rumors are to believed that Ben was the main one unsatisfied with the original script in the first place.

I just always thought Ben brought Terrio in. Seemed as obvious as anything could be without an actual official confirmation. Also, Ben was convinced to play BM because the story excited him. Which was before Terrio came on board. As for Goyer's writing, I love his superhero stuff. Don't think I've experienced anything else. And the thing about writing is, the author gets too close to his own work. Can't see the jungle, only trees. Almost any piece benefits from a fresh eye. And someone of Terrio's talent I'm pretty sure has some groovy eyes!

 

[BatmanVSuperman]

Ben and Terrio are obviously a great team coming off of Argo so it's obvious a conversation coming from Ben to bring him on, may have taken place.