DC Relaunching Everything? - Part 2

[Kurosawa]

All that Earth-2, Earth-Prime, Earth-S, Earth-, Earth-etc. stuff is kind of what these things should be avoiding.

I personally think anyone who is confused by alternate Earths and counterparts needs to get a different hobby. It's not hard at all to understand, DC's old Multiverse system in particular was extremely simple. It worked a hell of a lot better than what they've done since as they move into reboot #5 or whatever they're on now.

The most insulting thing about COIE to me was that it was built on the conceit that comics readers are too stupid to deal with a Multiverse.

 

[SuperFerret]

It's not hard to understand. It's just dumb to have multiple universes going at the same time. Alternate realities should be focused on in one shots and short arcs.

 

[Kurosawa]

It's not hard to understand. It's just dumb to have multiple universes going at the same time. Alternate realities should be focused on in one shots and short arcs.

Disagree completely and the industry leader Marvel proves my point, as they have two universes going with no issues, and have for years now.

There's no excuse for DC not to use the JSA on Earth-Two, where they belong with their printed history intact except for certain people at DC not wanting to admit that they were wrong and COIE was a mistake. Anyone who is going to take an interest in the JSA will end up knowing what Earth-Two is anyway.

That said, if they just HAVE to cram all these characters on the same Earth where half of them will never get the attention they deserve, then they could always just take the JSA out of WWII and have Superman come before Jay, Alan, etc. That's good for the JSA too as they could be 40 years old instead of 90. But that would mean they need to keep Kal and Bruce the same basic ages as they were in the continuity that followed the previous reboot.

 

[SuperFerret]

COIE wasn't a mistake. And Marvel has two universes and the one that counts has been suffering due to it.

 

[Kurosawa]

COIE wasn't a mistake. And Marvel has two universes and the one that counts has been suffering due to it.

COIE was a massive mistake. It did nothing long term to increase their readership and it fixed no continuity issues while causing tons of continuity problems. Several series, like Legion of Super-Heroes and Hawkman, got so screwed up by COIE that they've never recovered completely. Superman has been reduced Post-Crisis to a point where he is about as irrelevant as Captain Marvel. In the 60's and most of the 70's, Superman family comics were mainstays of the top ten. Now the character does well to scratch the top 20. Batman has benefited greatly although Batman has been mostly going in the right direction since the early 70's when O'Neil/Adams took him back to his roots. DC still hasn't caught Marvel or gotten even close, and they only get sales boosts with stunts like this current stunt, or their past stunts like breaking Batman's back, killing Superman, killing "Robin", raping and crippling Barbara Gordon and raping and killing Sue Dibny, etc. It's the 20 second sound byte sales strategy and it's never sustained itself for long.

Three things sell superhero comics on a consistent basis: Good stories, good art, and characters you can care about. All else fails.

Marvel's main universe has suffered because they have a no-talent hack in Bendis as their main writer. That and they have the obnoxious Wolverine overshadow all of Kirby's characters.

 

[SuperFerret]

We're never going to get anywhere with this. Forget about it. Agree to disagree.

 

[WompuM]

Wait, so has the Justice Society been swept under the rug completely?

 

[Mystirious]

Pretty much Womp

Don't know if they have been erased from DC continuity but they are not going to have a comic book after Flashpoint

Hawkman and Mr Terrific are going to have new ongoings though

 

[Mr. Earle]

 

[Mystirious]

The collars and the seams make me

 

[rawbeef64]

So, Superman/Batman comicbook will be canceled?

What was the purpose of recently re-launching Wonder Woman, when they will re-re-launching her again in September?

 

[Mr. Earle]

S/B is cancelled, at least for now.

WW was in the middle of a reboot and then FP happened so JMS said "**** this ****" and walked away to get rich with his Year One books. So i'm guessing DC will use the best elements of classic WW and JMS' WW and give us the new one. I'm guessing the end result might not be that different from what JMS would have given us, but this gives them the chance to apply some further changes.

It looks like WW might be a demi-god battling gods that interfere with humanity. Sounds good as long as its not overly dark, Themiscyra isnt destroyed and the Amazons dont get slaughtered in every issue (like in JMS' run).

 

[X Knight]

So, Superman/Batman comicbook will be canceled?

What was the purpose of recently re-launching Wonder Woman, when they will re-re-launching her again in September?

who knows??

and who knows when they'll relaunch this relaunch?

 

[Franklin Richards]

I'm looking forward to Justice League. Maybe this will be the rebranding they need. Similar to the Avengers' resurgence. I'd love to see the League's titles take off. Maybe Young Justice and Justice League : Space will follow.

...and sell.

 

[WolfCypher]

Like the Avengers, I'm extremely picky and have an unrealistic high standard on who gets to be a JLer.

 

[Comics N' Toons]

I think it would be smart to take a BETTER look at the history of these characters and find a way to mix the best elements of the 40's to today and roll with it. What is pretty sad is that there has been this campaign to ignore the golden age and rely very heavily on aspects of the silver age to tell stories. I' not anti-silver age, I just think there is more to comics than that.

 

[Kurosawa]

Wait, so has the Justice Society been swept under the rug completely?

It's hard to say really. They don't have a book and they seem to be alluding to the idea that Superman was the first superhero (a good idea), so it's hard to say. Hawkman has his own book and it came off at first like they were starting him completely anew but further details have mentioned Shiera's death, so I guess not.

I think it would be smart to take a BETTER look at the history of these characters and find a way to mix the best elements of the 40's to today and roll with it. What is pretty sad is that there has been this campaign to ignore the golden age and rely very heavily on aspects of the silver age to tell stories. I' not anti-silver age, I just think there is more to comics than that.

Batman to me is the best example of my personal view on comics. Batman has flourished because they have kept him true to his core principles and they have grown the character from there. Characters need to be who they are at their core, then they need to be taken FORWARD. The new Superman origin, for example, will be what, the third one in five years? They recycle old stories and screw up what wasn't broken the first time because they think the only two stories about Superman that anyone wants to see is his origin and his death. Now, they did do some good, progressive things with Superman-the marriage, Kon-El, etc, but the character at his core was moved so far from what his creators intended that what made him appealing in the first place was lost. They need to look at what has worked over the years instead of continuing to do what has failed. A Heroes Reborn ripoff with a bunch of old Image hacks is hardly my idea of bold new comics storytelling. Not that I cared for the Post-Crisis Earth myself but this surely isn't the solution as DC works on reboot #5 of their comics since 1985.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Like the Avengers, I'm extremely picky and have an unrealistic high standard on who gets to be a JLer.

Ditto. The Avengers may be selling well again, but they're not selling to me because what Marvel currently labels as the Avengers is almost entirely alien and, frankly, pretty terrible when held against the classic Avengers stuff. Only Avengers comic I'm actually reading at this point is Avengers Academy.

 

[Kurosawa]

Ditto. The Avengers may be selling well again, but they're not selling to me because what Marvel currently labels as the Avengers is almost entirely alien and, frankly, pretty terrible when held against the classic Avengers stuff. Only Avengers comic I'm actually reading at this point is Avengers Academy.

Between Bendis and Wolverine, I just can't read Marvel anymore. I read Cap and that's it.

 

[Mr. Earle]

Ditto. The Avengers may be selling well again, but they're not selling to me because what Marvel currently labels as the Avengers is almost entirely alien and, frankly, pretty terrible when held against the classic Avengers stuff. Only Avengers comic I'm actually reading at this point is Avengers Academy.

Is that like the Teen Titans?

 

[Kitsune]

Wow DC is canceling every single DC title I buy regularly. Thanks DC...

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Is that like the Teen Titans?

A bit, in that it primarily follows young heroes. But it's more of a high school for superheroes. The Avengers set up a school, stocked the faculty with established superheroes like Hank Pym and Quicksilver, and then opened their doors to superhuman kids who wanted to train to become Avengers. The first class, since it opened right after all that Dark Reign stuff just ended, is made up entirely of young superhumans whom Norman Osborn tortured or brainwashed under his regime. The faculty is trying to reform them and encourage them to be heroes in spite of their damaged pasts.

 

[SouLeSS]

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=32809

An overwhelming amount of people saying "hell no" to about 85% of the new titles. If these numbers are anything to hint at what's to come...

 

[TheCorpulent1]

They're not. They're a hint that fanboys have caught feelings over the relaunches, just like they do over everything. I would be thoroughly surprised if the majority of the big-name titles, at least, didn't sell pretty well come September. I'd be even more surprised if a lot of the really good ones haven't started selling well a few months after that due to positive word of mouth and fans getting over their b****ing.

Although those stats on Batwoman do make me wonder what things would've been like if Rucka were still slated to write it.

 

[roach]

They're not. They're a hint that fanboys have caught feelings over the relaunches, just like they do over everything. I would be thoroughly surprised if the majority of the big-name titles, at least, didn't sell pretty well come September. I'd be even more surprised if a lot of the really good ones haven't started selling well a few months after that due to positive word of mouth and fans getting over their b****ing.

Although those stats on Batwoman do make me wonder what things would've been like if Rucka were still slated to write it.

Exactly...how many people b'd and moaned about OMIT and OMD, Avengers Disassembled and House of M????
How many dropped Spider-man, New Avengers and X-Men???