DC Relaunching Everything? - Part 8

[Heretic]

I'm going to skip all of these titles and wait 5 years, when DC will undoubtedly wipe away all of their history once again and relaunch their titles.

 

[CConn]

I've forgotten more about comics than many of you guys will ever even approach knowing. That's not a boast, or an insult, if anything it's a shame. I know my opinions on comics are radical, and I don't expect anyone to agree with me. I know most modern fans have no interest in the history of comics and dismiss anything before the mid-80's or so as stupid. You guys got into comics when they had changed radically and you've been taught the comics of the past are stupid and immature. I can't change that, nor am I trying to. I know very few people take the approach that I do in their hobbies, and I don't take it personally when people disagree with me. I've never seen anyone change anyone else's mind on a message board yet, so it's not like I'm so special that I could do it when no one else ever has.

No, you're misunderstanding me. I actually respect your opinions and knowledge a lot. And even if you are a bit radical for my tastes, I often find myself agreeing with you to some degree.

Sure I might enjoy modern comics, and I haven't read a lot (I've only been reading comics for 7 years, which is probably like 30 less than you) but from what I've read Classic Superman, Wonder Woman, Flash, GL, etc. ARE better than the current versions, I agree completely. Your - usually - well stated comments ARE good enough to win me over most of the time.

I'm just saying, dropping ****s and ****ings every other word is the literary equivalent of how Geoff Johns writes comics; immature, overblown, and tasteless. I emphasis with your frustration over the death of the golden age of comics, but tht doesn't mean you shouldn't articulate that frustration in a mature, articulate way.

 

[RockSP]

I never had that problem.

Yeah, I don't get that mentality. If a book sucks, drop it. The closest I've come to sticking with a bad book is sticking around even when I don't like the art, but the writing is good. Artists change around so often, usually someone decent to great will be on soon anyway.

 

[CConn]

There's not a mentality to get, though. It's an illogical compulsion.

 

[Saint]

Honestly, I think it's time we all stop *****ing about a lack of Wally for at least 30 seconds, and actually recognize that their current direction with Barry is actually pretty good.

Sure, I'd prefer Wally to be around, and he'd still probably be my favorite Flash, but Manapul and Booch have very successfully created an entire different element for Barry. Retaining that sci-fi nature of the Flash with a classic everyman archetype. Different than Wally, more wholesome, more retro, but, at the same time, not at all boring or bland.

I agree. I don't feel their scripting is as solid as it needs to be, but yes, the current direction is sound.

 

[JewishHobbit]

Nightwing - Nothing about the series really interested me. There seemed to be a regression character-wise for Dick, revisiting his history at Haley's Circus just didn't interest me at all, and even Barrows didn't seem on par with his TT/Action Comics work.

I bought this title when it launched and dropped it around issue 3. Then on a whim I picked it up again a few issues later and got caught up. It actually really picked up and got a LOT better as it went. It's gone from a dropped book to one of my top 5 titles monthly. Same with Batman & Robin. Both of them started slow and picked it steam as it went until they were just great books.

 

[Kurosawa]

No, you're misunderstanding me. I actually respect your opinions and knowledge a lot. And even if you are a bit radical for my tastes, I often find myself agreeing with you to some degree.

Sure I might enjoy modern comics, and I haven't read a lot (I've only been reading comics for 7 years, which is probably like 30 less than you) but from what I've read Classic Superman, Wonder Woman, Flash, GL, etc. ARE better than the current versions, I agree completely. Your - usually - well stated comments ARE good enough to win me over most of the time.

I'm just saying, dropping ****s and ****ings every other word is the literary equivalent of how Geoff Johns writes comics; immature, overblown, and tasteless. I emphasis with your frustration over the death of the golden age of comics, but tht doesn't mean you shouldn't articulate that frustration in a mature, articulate way.

You have a good point and I'd say you are right. Foul language does reflect badly on those that use it.

 

[Joker'sHenchman]

Two of the books that have surprised me are Batwoman and New Guardians.

I got all 52 books for the first 3 issues and then did some trimming. I was surprised to find New Guardians was one of my favorite books of them all. I'm not much for GL and especially not Kyle, but I enjoyed the first arc and think the writing is really solid, fun and action packed.

Batwoman surprised me in a different way. Despite how un-intriguing the story is to me, the art is just so incredible that I keep coming back for more. I don't like the character in the least bit, but with art like that, I can't not continue to buy it.

If only they'd move him over to a new Bat book. I honestly think they know he's their only saving grace on Batwoman. Or are people genuinely enjoying the character/story?

 

[Kurosawa]

Two of the books that have surprised me are Batwoman and New Guardians.

I got all 52 books for the first 3 issues and then did some trimming. I was surprised to find New Guardians was one of my favorite books of them all. I'm not much for GL and especially not Kyle, but I enjoyed the first arc and think the writing is really solid, fun and action packed.

Batwoman surprised me in a different way. Despite how un-intriguing the story is to me, the art is just so incredible that I keep coming back for more. I don't like the character in the least bit, but with art like that, I can't not continue to buy it.

If only they'd move him over to a new Bat book. I honestly think they know he's their only saving grace on Batwoman. Or are people genuinely enjoying the character/story?

The character had no reaction up or down until Greg Rucka wrote her in Detective Comics and made her really interesting. I'd say the success of her solo book is the art and the improvements Rucka made in her character.

 

[Anubis]

Yeah, Batwoman's an awesome character. I think it's just you.

 

[CConn]

And Rucka created the character to begin with. Wouldn't those "improvements" just be an exploration of the character he originally intended?

 

[taskmaster]

I don't want current comics fans to read the stuff I like, they just dismiss it as stupid old stuff written by a bunch of dead guys anyway. Trying to get modern comics fans to appreciate classic comics is like trying to get rap fans to listen to the Beatles. It's not gonna happen.

This is the problem I have with you. You just assume that it's impossible to like current comics and the classics. I know plenty of people that enjoy rap that also enjoy the Beatles. More people would be more interested in checking out older stuff if the people who enjoyed it didn't spend all their time telling them that comics these days suck. Maybe reign in the cynicism a bit, make that thread about your old favorites and try to get some people to check it out. And if they don't, they don't. That doesn't make them any worse or better than you for sticking to what they've grown to enjoy.

 

[Anubis]

That's not really the point. He's just lamenting about what's become of the stuff he loved. It's like.......you had a picture of your dead mom on your desk at work, then you come back from the copy room and find some *****e using it as toilet paper. It's exactly like that.....only totally not.

 

[CConn]

I mean, I do think his overall point is pretty inarguable, though. Comics were of a much high quality back then. Obviously, things like dialogue and art have progressed greatly, the overall stories, concepts, plotting styles, etc. have really just gotten more stagnant as the years have gone on.

 

[Anubis]

And overall rather stupid, and appeal to the lowest common denominator.

But...there's still quite a few gems out there. It's not all bad.

 

[Cosmic]

>>>: I checked out a lot of number ones (and twos, even), but these were the books that I had actually planned on getting or wanted to really like, but just couldn't...<<<


>>>Aquaman - I think as All Star Batman is to Frank Miller, Aquaman is to Geoff Johns.<<<

The art alone is worth a monthly pull for me. The stories are good enough to keep me interested.

>>>Batgirl - I've never been a big Barb Gordon fan, and Simone really didn't bring anything to the table to make me gain any appreciation for her; the writing in general seemed very stilted and corny...almost akin to a bad comic in the late 80s.<<<

They should've started fresh, like Year One. This series will fail. It's too bleak and depressing. It's the wrong tone and direction for the character.

>>>Frankenstein - I'm still disappointed I had to drop this. I liked the characters and the concept, but the plotting just didn't grab me at all.<<<

Agreed...seems like there's a ton of potential for great stories, but it's just not working.

>>>Justice League International - I still don't quite get how Jurgens - normally a pretty fun writer - could so quickly and so resolutely suck all of the fun out of the JLI mythos. ...did I say that already?<<<

100% agreed.

>>>Stormwatch - It started out very promising, but by issue four the character development hadn't nearly reached a point to keep me interested. And with Milligan coming on, I lost all interest in it.<<<

Fair enough. I feel that the characters are developing gradually through their actions, decisions and relationships, rather than by telling their histories. Give it time, and you will get to know them all better. It works for me.

 

[Mystirious]

Yeah, Batwoman's an awesome character. I think it's just you.

She's my absolute favourite character in comic books right now, not just DC but in comics in general

Her ongoing is the only one of the new DCU that i really find myself caring about and if i could only afford to buy one comic book each month it would be hers. No doubt about that

I think its the absolute best title DC publishes right now and that she's the best DC character

JH Williams art is gorgeous but I'd buy the comic book no matter who the artist was. It's the character and the writing that makes me want to buy it

Kate is my personal hero

 

[CConn]

The art alone is worth a monthly pull for me. The stories are good enough to keep me interested.

I feel like even Reis' art hasn't been on par with what I'm used to from him. Aquaman just hasn't looked anywhere near as sleek and polished as his GL work.

They should've started fresh, like Year One. This series will fail. It's too bleak and depressing. It's the wrong tone and direction for the character.

Yeah, it's...strange at best. And from everything I've heard, it's turning into the comic book equivelant of a Lifetime movie.

Agreed...seems like there's a ton of potential for great stories, but it's just not working.

Which confuses the hell out of me as everything else Lemire has done has been a home run. And you'd think he'd be all into Frankenstein to boot.

Fair enough. I feel that the characters are developing gradually through their actions, decisions and relationships, rather than by telling their histories. Give it time, and you will get to know them all better. It works for me.

If Cornell had continued writing it, I probably would've given it much of a chance. I just have very little faith in Milligan. My general policy is to only read his work if it's gotten rave reviews beforehand.

 

[CConn]

And overall rather stupid, and appeal to the lowest common denominator.

But...there's still quite a few gems out there. It's not all bad.

Oh definitely. But it's like having a clean politican in a corrupt government.

As much as I love movies, and embrace the cinematic venture, I really would love to see a comic book writer ditch decompression, stop trying to make their comics look like movies, and write a comic book as a comic book. Go back to the old style of self contained issues so compressed that they have 3-4 chapters, without the stilted dialogue and pointless exposition that classic comics have.

And comics have gotten pointlessly violent and "dark". It's one thing when it's the Punisher or something, but I definitely see the merit in just telling some light, oddball sci-fi stories with Superman or GL or Flash. I'd like to see writers stop trying to be light or dark and just write for what fits the story and character.

Oh, and events. Events can go to hell. Crossovers too.

 

[CConn]

I bought this title when it launched and dropped it around issue 3. Then on a whim I picked it up again a few issues later and got caught up. It actually really picked up and got a LOT better as it went. It's gone from a dropped book to one of my top 5 titles monthly. Same with Batman & Robin. Both of them started slow and picked it steam as it went until they were just great books.

I read up until issue 4 and none of it really impressed me.

I dunno, maybe I'll check it out again, but for me, I'd rather buy a back issue of some really good series that I never got into like Fables or Swamp Thing or whatever, then repeatedly testing the waters with some of these titles.

 

[Kurosawa]

And Rucka created the character to begin with. Wouldn't those "improvements" just be an exploration of the character he originally intended?

I guess so, I thought Johns created her since she first appeared in 52. I forgot that was one of those written by committee series.

I'm currently not buying any titles from any publisher. I can't really afford it, and DC cancelling Action, Superman, Batman, Detective and Adventure gave me just the excuse to stop getting new comics.

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

Oh definitely. But it's like having a clean politican in a corrupt government.

As much as I love movies, and embrace the cinematic venture, I really would love to see a comic book writer ditch decompression, stop trying to make their comics look like movies, and write a comic book as a comic book. Go back to the old style of self contained issues so compressed that they have 3-4 chapters, without the stilted dialogue and pointless exposition that classic comics have.

And comics have gotten pointlessly violent and "dark". It's one thing when it's the Punisher or something, but I definitely see the merit in just telling some light, oddball sci-fi stories with Superman or GL or Flash. I'd like to see writers stop trying to be light or dark and just write for what fits the story and character.

Oh, and events. Events can go to hell. Crossovers too.

But to tell completely compressed stories, you need more pages, more pages lead to higher prices, higher prices will probably lead to lower sales. Possibly enough so that you're in a worse position than before.

I agree with everything else. Except crossovers, I like a good crossover every now and then.

 

[CConn]

You don't necessarily need more pages. They cut back on pages in the late 70s (I think), and those stories were still way more compressed than the ones today.

 

[Mystirious]

I definitely agree they need to do less 'events'. One event crossover every 5 years or so is more than enough I think and only if its a really good idea for a story

Also if they have crossovers and tie ins make them count. I bought all the tie ins to Infinite Crisis but apart from Villains United and OMAC Project none of them really had anything to do with the story

And those Countdown tie ins were utterly pointless as well as terrible

 

[RockSP]

This is the problem I have with you. You just assume that it's impossible to like current comics and the classics. I know plenty of people that enjoy rap that also enjoy the Beatles.

Pretty much. Plus he says he doesn't read any current comics, so how does he know how bad they are? There are plenty of other comics out there besides marvel & dc.