"Growing Pains" Season 2: Episode 19 Discussion Thread

[Jick]

If Norman can out-think Peter and create inventions to neutralize his powers he could easily do the same to the less-stable and less-intelligent Venom.

Heck, Ben Reilly took out Venom pretty easily on his own.

Yeah, suuure...because Spidey, who's weaker than Venom, didn't defeat Goblin countless times...

 

[Anwar]

And Ben Reilly, who's equal to Peter, took out Venom all on his own.

The same Ben who was killed by Norman.

Strength alone doesn't factor into this really. And strength is all Venom really has.

 

[Jick]

Ben who? Scarlet Spidey?
He defeated Venom only because he managed to separate the symbiote from Eddie with the Impact Web, but he had a hell of a fight before.

 

[Anwar]

And he still won. This isn't about just punching a guy till he goes down.

Besides, all of Peter's victories over Venom were "separating the symbiote from Brock" or at least weakening the symbiote. Same as how most of his victories over Norman in the early comics were about doing something to snap him out of his Goblin persona and back to Norman. The one time he really beat him up that bad, Norman killed himself with the glider.

Anywho, if they did get into a fight, the money's on Norman. He would just have some sonic pumpkin bomb to take out Venom in one hit or something.

 

[The Rose]

Anywho, if they did get into a fight, the money's on Norman. He would just have some sonic pumpkin bomb to take out Venom in one hit or something.

This is the Green Goblin we're talking about, not Batman. t:

 

[Jick]

And he still won. This isn't about just punching a guy till he goes down.

He won, after a hell of a fight. The entire time trying to take out Venom until he finally found a way.
How Goblin is gonna defeat Venom or any other villain, such as Ock, Mysterio, Electro, Vulture, Kraven and others if he doesn't know them? Norman knew Peter. He knew how to defeat him. Now put him and Venom face to face. It's like putting Goblin and Spidey face to face, like Death in Family. Spidey wins. So would Venom.

 

[Duskbyday]

This is the Green Goblin we're talking about, not Batman. t:

Well they do have thier own personal lairs, wealthy industrialists and have side kicks and gadgets galore. Except GG is nuts

 

[Anwar]

And Venom's powers aren't very different from Peter's, plus Venom has weaknesses Peter doesn't. Rather easily exploitable weaknesses if you're genius industrialist who designs specialty weapons like that.

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

^^ Very true.

 

[AIRWOLF]

Can't we all just accept each villain for how much fun they can be when going up against Spidey? Do we really need to see how much each accomplished ever since they first got printed in comic books? Frankly, it all means zilch when they can bring you excitement, and I think Spidey's rogue gallery has 80-85%, imo, of enjoyable villains.

 

[The Rose]

Well they do have thier own personal lairs, wealthy industrialists and have side kicks and gadgets galore. Except GG is nuts

Green Goblin has a sidekick? Green Goblin sticks to the same lair all the time?

Can't we all just accept each villain for how much fun they can be when going up against Spidey? Do we really need to see how much each accomplished ever since they first got printed in comic books? Frankly, it all means zilch when they can bring you excitement, and I think Spidey's rogue gallery has 80-85%, imo, of enjoyable villains.

I couldn't agree more! You're absolutely right. The best villains are the ones who you're truly pumped and excited to see in action, and for me, Venom is as fun as it gets. Frankly, you just hit the nail on the head.

 

[Duskbyday]

Green Goblin has a sidekick? Green Goblin sticks to the same lair all the time?



I couldn't agree more! You're absolutely right. The best villains are the ones who you're truly pumped and excited to see in action, and for me, Venom is as fun as it gets. Frankly, you just hit the nail on the head.

sidekick, By tht I meant Harry. more of a hier but still. Gobby has one major goblin lair which at one point was hobgobs.

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

Can't we all just accept each villain for how much fun they can be when going up against Spidey?

Yeah, I agree, tbh.

 

[Duskbyday]

Yeah, I agree, tbh.

Ditto

 

[AIRWOLF]

I'm glad some of you think that way. Honestly, when I'm watching an episode of Spidey, all I care about is how fun its going to be when Spidey fights his foe, all those quips exchange between them, especially Goblin's and Venom's twisted sense of humor, its all good. I think especially in this SSM series, no villain has disappointed us yet.

 

[Jick]

And some underrated villains have got the attention they deserve. They're all great.

 

[Neptune]

AMAZING episode. The best of season 2 so far. I think i enjoy this Venom more than the 90's cartoon Venom.

 

[Duskbyday]

is it me, or does that guy giving John Jameson the injection look like Bart Hamilton?

 

[VenomRules153]

lolz he does dont he also it kinda was explained how Eddie got back the symbiote cause in at the end of ep 18 Spidey unintentially leads Eddie to the symbiotes location and he is seen using a sledgehammer to break open the concrete tht conceals the symbiote

 

[nygma619]

Dread's comment on toonzone:
"I read some reviews at Toonzone that criticized some of the writing between Spider-Man and Venom by claiming it is usually too "impersonal" in fight sequences, that Venom acts like "any other villain".

It is too impersonal because Peter's reactions to what have happened to his bro don't feel natural. If one of my best friends I go way back with went off the deep end, and I played a part in it, I would take it alot harder. It's not that Venom acts like any other villain (far from it) so much that Pete treats him like just another villain (he quips with him like he does every other villain), a subtle substitute could've been Spidey refering to Venom as Eddie when it's just the two of them and no ones around.

Let me put it this way. Liz's reactions to her brother Mark' and his gambling addiction and her dialogue with him as Molten Man (when she tries to get through to him) felt more natural and real than all of the moments/exchanges between Peter and Eddie (when he had the symbiote) combined. Because the reactions from her are natural and what one would expect from her in this situation.

I humbly disagree. Firstly, Venom (Ben Diskin) must call Peter "bro" like he used to in Season One at least three or four times in mid-battle here.

Unfortunately the relationship is not mutual on Peter's part, and that's one of many reasons why it's lacking.

There is one point where Spider-Man dismisses Venom by going, "I have some actual human beings to rescue" which sounded quite personal.

It was a reference to the symbiote, not Eddie. Again the symbiote takes priority over someone he's known for years.

But the point I seem to be getting is that when old friends have become enemies, sometimes there isn't some melodrama about one wanting to "win" the other over or "explain" things.

If there's not some emotional moments between them, then what's the point of making them best friends that go way back.

Peter did look for Brock, but it wasn't until now that he revealed himself beyond glimpses.

Yeah but did he look for him out of fear because he knows Spidey's identity, or because he actually cared? I'd have to say it was for the former.
And besides him getting up too look for him at that moment in Blueprints was contrived. In Nature vs. Nurture, if someone I know still knows my secret identity and tried to kill people I cared about (and that person knew these people), I wouldn't be at home having thanksgiving or thinking that it's okay to celebrate. And at the very least he would've still been on my mind (he wasn't on Pete's that's for sure). But that's only because I think that's what would happen if it were more natural. Cause I'm wacky I guess.

The moment, practically, that Brock was originally empowered, he went after Aunt May, and endangered Gwen in front of half the city. He does nothing but endanger people and proclaim how much he hates Spider-Man. Frankly, Spidey holding back and pleading with him would be dumb and naive, and I for one am glad that this Peter Parker isn't the whiner of USM, but someone who knows when it is time to be serious, or to be impersonal and professional, even against a former surrogate brother.

At least his reactions in "Ultimate" were natural instead of contrived or they didn't lack any spark like they do here.

 

[Sarcastic Fan]

Another Sunday, another episode of "The Spectacular Spider-Man" come and gone. And, as far as episodes go, I almost wish there was a bad one so I could stop heaping praise on this show, it gets a tad predictable. But, a great show is a great show, and I'm glad we have one. Good stuff

Oh what a tangled web we weave
When first we practice to deceive.

Okay, the quote may not be Shakespeare as all the auditions were, but I think that sums up this episode quite well. Our tangled web is being weaved by Venom. He is deceiving the city into believing Spider-Man has become a criminal.

I've spoken my thoughts and opinions on Venom in previous reviews, but I have to say that I like this Venom. I like this Venom a lot, and I hate that I do. But, really, this is what he should be. He is the evil Spider-Man. None of this misunderstood, lethal protector of the innocent garbage. This Venom is completely obsessed with Peter Parker and doesn't care who he hurts to get to him. Which is really what he was in his first two appearances, before Marvel decided they had a cash cow and turned him into something else entirely.

Now, the main plot of this issue is loosely based on Amazing Spider-Man #42 where John Jameson was infected by alien spores and gained power, and at his father, J. Jonah Jameson's insistence, he attempted to hunt down Spider-Man. That very same issue also marked Peter Parker meeting Mary Jane Watson for the first time, complete with the popular phrase "Face it tiger, you just hit the jackpot." But, obviously we already did that in the first season.

I enjoyed the treatment of John Jameson here. I think a lot of people thought the creators of this show would jump right into Man-Wolf with him, but nope, they chose to adapt a fun, if somewhat forgotten story from Lee's run. But, considering how this episode ends, with John at Ravencroft lusting for more power, I can foresee a Man-Wolf down the road.

This episode also marked J. Jonah Jameson's return this season. Yes, we got a brief glimpse of him in "Destructive Testing" but it was a brief glimpse and with no lines. Here, well, Darran Norris is still in top form. I love his take on this character, and I just love how Jameson is written. What I enjoy the most about this Jameson is how his hatred of Spider-Man has slowly built up. First, Spidey was just some mook in a costume who sold papers. Second, Spidey participated in trashing the offices of the Daily Bugle... okay, that was Rhino's fault, but still. Then Spidey, without meaning to, upstaged John Jameson's heroic landing of a doomed space shuttle. Now... as far as Jameson is concerned, Spidey is responsible for John being a mental case. Well played, Weisman.

The whole cast auditioning for St. John Devereaux's play was enough to tickle the Shakespeare geek in me. And looking at the cast list at the end, the play is "A Midsummer Night's Dream". Let's see who I can make out... some of the name's are obscured by Devereaux's arm.

Puck..... Harry Osborn
Titania.. Sha Shan Nguyen
Oberon... Kenny Kong
Cobweb... Glory Grant
Hermia... Mary (I assume Jane Watson).
and all the way at the bottom... O'Reilly (I assume Seymore) and below him... Greg Weisman. LOL, I love these little Easter Eggs.

Heh, what does it say about me that I can identify each and every single play (as well as character) that the kids' auditions were coming from?

I enjoyed both as part of their auditioning for an upcoming play, and also commentating like a Greek chorus on the episode overall.

Glory quotes from Macbeth;
Harry quotes from Henry IV, part 2;
Kenny quotes from Othello;
Sha Shan quotes from Richard the III--although it's really "poisonous", not "venomous";
Sally annoyingly cheers a line from Hamlet;
Mary Jane quotes from Hamlet as well;
Liz quotes from Measure for Measure;
and Flash also quotes from, or rather reads badly, lines from Hamlet.

The ending of the episode, well, I love a good cliffhanger, and you can't get a bigger one than Venom bursting into the offices of the Daily Bugle and announcing that Peter Parker is Spider-Man. What, I have to wait a week? Aw well.

Another spectacular one.