"Growing Pains" Season 2: Episode 19 Discussion Thread

[Duskbyday]

that episode was a 10 out of 10. if buying the dvd helps wiseman sign season 3 then I will definately fork out the money...when they can be bothered to bring out the season boxset

Late this year more likely.

What were those pieces from if not shakespere?

I think we willsee Eddie at his best next episode.

 

[Dread]

One minor correction to that review, when you referenced "Mudslide" you made the common mistake that the process Hagen was undergoing at the end was to cure him. It wasn't, it was to stabilize and augment his powers this making him into basically Super-Clayface. Batman was very right to stop the experiment.

But there is one caveat; Clayface in "MUDSLIDE" was falling apart. Batman had determined it with his Bat-Computer; he was breaking apart slowly but surely and for him that is akin to dying slowly. The process may have made him a better shape-shifter, but it also would have halted his breakdown. Without it he would have eventually crumbled. Sitting in a prison cell wouldn't have exactly cured Hagin, either. Their battle ultimately ended with Hagin falling into the drink and seemingly falling apart completely. Of course, then the show switched networks and tones, and Clayface's dust conveniently floated near some random chemical waste and reformed.

Of course, I'm not saying Batman was being a jerk. Clayface stole things, smashed property, and once tried to kill Roland Daggatt on TV. While Daggatt was evil and responsible for what happened to Hagin, Batman naturally wouldn't excuse that. I understand why Batman would want to stop Clayface and all. But it still was tragic and one is curious what may have happened if things played out differently. In a way this episode with John Jameson reminded me of that. I understood why Spidey fled from him and the police, but it did set forward a chain of events.

Wow, fantastic review, once again, Dread. Kepp 'em coming.

great review.

Thanks.

The dudes who first used the sonic blaster on the symbiote also tried a flame thrower and the Symbiote had the same cruise control as with sonic waves. They didn't outright say it was a weakness, but 7 year old me interpreted it that way...

I missed that part. Granted, it has been ages since I saw that episode. I haven been hesitant to buy that series on bootleg, for fear it hasn't aged well.

 

[varsas]

The more I think about it, this episode felt repetitive.

The ShakesPearean intros felt like Flash's birthday wishes.

I think this is why I don't rate this episode as highly as the last. I think all the elements are excellent especially the ongoing Venom arc and the tragic end to John Jameson's arc but there is a feeling of deja vu that diminishes it for me especially following on from the last episode.

 

[spider-neil]

great review dread but tonight's episode was inspired by lee and romita sr not lee and ditko.

 

[spider-neil]

SSM has moved up to number 3 on my all time saturday morning cartoon list.

1. JL/JLU
2. BTAS
3. SSM

I'm a pretty harsh critic but imho no episode have fallen below the 8/10 mark. not one.

 

[whiplash]

Well, I can help out



From Macbeth, Act IV, scene 1. Spoken by the Second Witch when Macbeth approaches.



Henry IV, part 2. Act V, scene 5. Spoken by Henry V (formerly Prince Henry, a.k.a. Prince Harry, or Hal) to Falstaff. And the actual quote from the play is:

"Presume not that I am the thing I was;
For God doth know, so shall the world perceive,
That I have turned away my former self;
So I will those that kept me company."



From Othello, Act 2, scene 3. Spoken by Cassio to Iago.



From Richard III, Act 1, scene 3. Spoken by Queen Margaret to Queen Elizabeth. The actual quote from the play is:

"Poor painted queen, vain flourish of my
fortune!
Why strew'st thou sugar on that bottled spider
Whose deadly web ensnareth thee about?
Fool, fool! thou whet'st a knife to kill thyself.
The day will come that thou shalt wish for me
To help thee curse this poisonous bunch-back'd toad."



From Hamlet, Act I, scene V. Spoken by Hamlet. The actual lines from the play are:

"O villain, villain, smiling, damned villain!
My tables! Meet it is I set it down,
That one may smile, and smile, and be a villain;
At least I'm sure it may be so in Denmark."



From Hamlet, Act II, scene 2. Spoken by Polonius, reading a love letter from Hamlet to Polonius' daughter, Ophelia, to Claudius and Gertrude, King and Queen of Denmark.



From Measure for Measure, Act II, scene 2. Spoken by Isabella to Angelo.



From Hamlet, Act II, scene 2. Spoken by Polonius to Claudius and Gertrude, King and Queen of Denmark.

Also, in the taxi cab, J. Jonah Jameson utters the line "O, what a tangled web we weave," from the lines:

"Oh what a tangled web we weave,
When first we practise to deceive!"

Which people often mistakenly attribute to William Shakespeare, when it reality it's from the poem, "Marmion," by Sir Walter Scott. (Which is quite fitting for Jameson since he frequently gets things wrong).

You may now call me a "show off," now.

Show off! great research or general knowledge. Maybe this is a prelude to the last arc with theater episode titles

 

[Dread]

great review dread but tonight's episode was inspired by lee and romita sr not lee and ditko.

Really? Damn, guess the Romita Sr. eras and Ditko blur.

 

[spider-neil]

Really? Damn, guess the Romita Sr. eras and Ditko blur.

check out the cover a few pages back in this very thread.
its amazing how faithful to the comic this episode was.

 

[Ratcrawler]

At Bayville High, new drama teacher John Devereaux is assembling the annual school play, and virtually all of the characters aside for Peter try out for it, and their "auditions" provide a context for this episode's acts as well as future things I imagine.

Don't you mean M Cubed? Or does Pete go to school with Evo's X-Men now?

 

[November Rain]

what the hell has happened to debra whitman, she's fallen off the map?

 

[Mistah K88]

Oh she was there in the beginning when Miles Warren comments about all the labs funding going into correcting mistakes such as John's run in with the wall...

 

[E.Brock]

how do you create a poll?

 

[Dread]

check out the cover a few pages back in this very thread.
its amazing how faithful to the comic this episode was.

Indeed.

Don't you mean M Cubed? Or does Pete go to school with Evo's X-Men now?

Whoops! I'll edit. I actually run a message board game based around X-Men Evolution so it was just a bit of a sloppy error.

Glad everyone liked my review considering how many errors there were this week!

 

[Anwar]

That would be great, the EVO X-Men going to the same school as the SSM crew...

 

[Jick]

I just saw the episode, and honestly, after reading quite some negative reviews, I thought I would totally dislike it...but I thought it was great. Even Colonel Jupiter. It was good to see JJ's hatred towards Spidey and how they're building it to Scorpion.
Venom was awesome. I'm happy that they're doing a good job with him. They're showing his superiority over Spidey, like in the comics. He's faster, stronger, knows Spidey's moves and knows how to fight him. But this Venom has something more...he has a brain.
Venom almost got there again...but Rhino is still my favorite. I hope he is in the next episode, too. The final was really good, by the way.
9/10.

 

[SpaceWay2009]

I just saw the episode, and honestly, after reading quite some negative reviews, I thought I would totally dislike it...but I thought it was great. Even Colonel Jupiter. It was good to see JJ's hatred towards Spidey and how they're building it to Scorpion.
Venom was awesome. I'm happy that they're doing a good job with him. They're showing his superiority over Spidey, like in the comics. He's faster, stronger, knows Spidey's moves and knows how to fight him. But this Venom has something more...he has a brain.
Venom almost got there again...but Rhino is still my favorite. I hope he is in the next episode, too. The final was really good, by the way.
9/10.

Actually, Venom does appear in the next episode. It will be his last for season two.

 

[Doctor Jones]

Good episode, not one of the best but I liked it. The end left me speechless. How is Peter gonna get out of that ****?!

But I loved the Shakspeare comparisons of them talking and then cutting to the scene in the same contest. It reminded me of Watchmen which did the same thing.

 

[Webhead2006]

Well their is alot of ways they can go about the reveal cant wait to see how they do it.

 

[The Caped Knight]

The episode was overall pretty strong, I like how tptb used Macbeth to foreshadow the actually events related to the words from Macbeth taking place in the episode . We also got a foreshadowing of MJ becoming a theater actress (based on the comment by the director) . Venom's Return was handle quite well I'm looking for to the conculsion . I also love how Jameson hatred of spider-Man is now because spidey ruining John's life . I think that a prefect way rather than the comic version in which JJJ hatred is more because he's jealous of Spider-Man .

 

[Anwar]

Comics JJ is kind of a problem because some writers just portray him as a 1-note psycho dedicated solely to hating Spidey whereas others make him more human. TAS Jonah hated him and masked men in general because a masked man killed his wife, SSM Jonah hates him for essentially overshadowing and destroying John (it wasn't really Spidey's fault, but it did come off as that way).

Sometimes we get "What If?" stories that also feature a Jameson who has logical reasons for hating Spidey (the one where Peter stopped the burglar at the wrestling ring and Ben never died had Spidey continue as a success. He became an egomaniac and Jonah was PO'ed that a clown like him was getting all sorts of coverage and publicity when "real heroes" like John died tragically since a hero Spidey was never around to save him in that universe).

 

[Duskbyday]

Comics JJ is kind of a problem because some writers just portray him as a 1-note psycho dedicated solely to hating Spidey whereas others make him more human. TAS Jonah hated him and masked men in general because a masked man killed his wife, SSM Jonah hates him for essentially overshadowing and destroying John (it wasn't really Spidey's fault, but it did come off as that way).

Sometimes we get "What If?" stories that also feature a Jameson who has logical reasons for hating Spidey (the one where Peter stopped the burglar at the wrestling ring and Ben never died had Spidey continue as a success. He became an egomaniac and Jonah was PO'ed that a clown like him was getting all sorts of coverage and publicity when "real heroes" like John died tragically since a hero Spidey was never around to save him in that universe).

House of M has a good motive as well.

 

[kguillou]

I dont get why Eddie hates peter so much, as a matter of fact in almost all of venom's incarnations i never understood his extreme hatred for peter parker/spiderman. The best motive was in the 90's spiderman cartoon where Spiderman was constantly getting in Eddie's way and teasing him and eddie snapped. It was much more believable than the comic version, (both ultimate and 616 versions), the movie version, and this version where eddie wants to completely ruin peter' life because....he took a few pics of spiderman??

 

[Jick]

Not just this, but also because he was taking the photos instead of calling the police or trying to help, when that's what Eddie was trying to do, like in Electro and Lizard's episode. Peter left Gwen behind to be with someone else. There are other things that I can't remember. Eddie also started to hate Spidey when he tried to destroy the symbiote, and without it in the lab, Eddie wouldn't get money to complete his studies. It was like seeing his future being squashed. Add to that the fact that he never had someone to care about him, like Aunt May for Peter. And, to make his hatred even worse, the symbiote augmented that like...3 times more. He doesn't even care for his old pals. Nor even Gwen, whom he took to the dance so she wouldn't be alone. The symbiote increased his hatred even more.

 

[Rincewind]

It still feels rushed. Especially after it turned out that the alien wasn't killed by the freezing - if Eddie just left it there, he wouldn't lose his job and his college education.

I had an idea how to make the hatred of SSM's Eddie more believable - just give it more time and make Spidey really ruin his life. For example - make the Connors fire Eddie after the alien is gone. He has no money to pay for college and is desperate in his desire not to drop and lose his education, and has no time to search for a job and collect salaries. So, in his desperation, he tries to steal money. But, with his wretched luck, he is caught by Spidey (who is still bonded with the alien at that point) and under the cruel influence of the symbiote, he leaves him for the police. And so Eddie is arrested and spends few months in jail. When he comes out he hates Spidey in the guts, starts to stalk him and that leads to the church origin. The only thing is that with the pace of this development, Venom would have appeared for the first time somewhere in the Second Season.

 

[Jick]

It still feels rushed. Especially after it turned out that the alien wasn't killed by the freezing

The symbiote blinded Eddie to anything else when they formed Venom. Take what I said about Gwen, for instance. He was blind for revenge. I didn't feel it was rushed, seeing as the alien augmented his hatred even more.