The Dark Knight Did anyone feel a J. Depp/Jack Sparrow vibe from joker?

[gwynplaine]

Johnny Depp is a cool actor but a bit overrated imo. He was great in the 1st pirate but then he did pt 2 and 3 and completely killed it for me, kind of like what the Wachowski did with the Matrix.
I think Heath was inspired by different sources but in the end created a truly unique character all his own.

 

[SamuraiSon6]

^well said above

i never once thought of depp during the movie, (or even ledger for that matter, only the joker)

 

[Doc Samson]

So the reason why people feel his credit as an actor is lacking because women like him? Wow, sexist much... I guess maybe that's why Brad Pitt doesn't get his kudos either.

Actually I think its exactly the reason why Brad Pitt doesn't get kudos for acting, call it sexist if you want, but it is what it is. A big part of the reason why Depp did all those weird roles initially in his career was to escape the "pretty boy" role that was quickly consuming his acting ability, ironically, that's the same thing with Heath Ledger, most goodlooking actors think their credibility will be shot as soon as they're typecast, so alot of them do crazy roles in order to distinguish themselves from that. I mean, hate Tom Cruise all you want now, his earlier career had some good acting, but it wasn't until Born on the 4th of July, where he's not just the "pretty guy", that for a time, people took him serious.

It's the same thing with any actor that's typecast, if they're worth a grain a salt, they'll try to go against that. It's the same reason Halle Berry did Monster's Ball when Angela Bassett wouldn't. Angela was already established as a great actress, Halle Berry needed something drastic to try and show people that she really could act. Same thing with Charlize Theron in Monster, or Denzel playing the "bad guy" in Training Day instead of the upstanding noble man he always played, but never got any Oscar for. Going against type is almost always what "pretty" actors, male or female do when they feel their ability isn't being fulfilled, and it's also why the Academy seems to award performances like that. This is why I think Heath has a genuine shot at winning one...

 

[Cunning Stunts]

^ Your name sounds filthy if you say it in a Stewie Griffin-esque voice. Just throwing that out there...

Hahaha, I aim to please.

 

[GoblinWhirlwind]

Daniel Day-Lewis as the Joker, FTW

He's the only one that I'm confident could do Heath justice.

 

[p4poetic]

Ugh, stop with the "_______ for Joker". It's not going to happen.

Actually I think its exactly the reason why Brad Pitt doesn't get kudos for acting, call it sexist if you want, but it is what it is. A big part of the reason why Depp did all those weird roles initially in his career was to escape the "pretty boy" role that was quickly consuming his acting ability, ironically, that's the same thing with Heath Ledger, most goodlooking actors think their credibility will be shot as soon as they're typecast, so alot of them do crazy roles in order to distinguish themselves from that. I mean, hate Tom Cruise all you want now, his earlier career had some good acting, but it wasn't until Born on the 4th of July, where he's not just the "pretty guy", that for a time, people took him serious.

It's the same thing with any actor that's typecast, if they're worth a grain a salt, they'll try to go against that. It's the same reason Halle Berry did Monster's Ball when Angela Bassett wouldn't. Angela was already established as a great actress, Halle Berry needed something drastic to try and show people that she really could act. Same thing with Charlize Theron in Monster, or Denzel playing the "bad guy" in Training Day instead of the upstanding noble man he always played, but never got any Oscar for. Going against type is almost always what "pretty" actors, male or female do when they feel their ability isn't being fulfilled, and it's also why the Academy seems to award performances like that. This is why I think Heath has a genuine shot at winning one...

You bring up good points, thanks for your input. Only thing I'd have to add is that Halle Berry has been playing against type earlier than Monster's Ball (Heath is in this movie, isn't he? I don't remember him in it, strangely) like playing a crackhead in some of those early 90s films whose name escape me at the moment. (However, the reason Angela Basett didn't choose the role is for a completely different and political reason I don't want to get into right now).

 

[Fax]

Daniel Day-Lewis as the Joker, FTW

He's the only one that I'm confident could do Heath justice.

Can we please stop with trying to replace Heath? its not going to happend I don't want to see the joker until the next batman movie series.

 

[Gianakin_]

Yes, in the interrogation room, when he tells the cop "I want to savor the little... emotions (or sth like that)".

 

[Banquet]

Never once thought of Depp. Did think Beetlejuice (in the tape with Brian), a little of Jack Nicholson's Joker when he was hanging upsidedown at the end, but that's about it. Oh yeah, and of course Alex from a Clockwork Orange in his facial expression in the jail cell. But these were flashes, nothing ever consistently similar. Heath's Joker is a completely new character to me.

 

[Why Are You Crouching Spock?]

When he is talking to the old man at the party he reminds me of him in
Fear And Loathing.

 

[GoblinWhirlwind]

Can we please stop with trying to replace Heath? its not going to happend I don't want to see the joker until the next batman movie series.

I don't want to replace Heath at all, but the Joker just cannot disappear after causing so much chaos. Especially with the news of Nolan not bringing back Two-Face... The Joker must return in some form.

 

[Doc Samson]

You bring up good points, thanks for your input. Only thing I'd have to add is that Halle Berry has been playing against type earlier than Monster's Ball (Heath is in this movie, isn't he? I don't remember him in it, strangely) like playing a crackhead in some of those early 90s films whose name escape me at the moment. (However, the reason Angela Basett didn't choose the role is for a completely different and political reason I don't want to get into right now).

Your right, Halle did do some of that early on, but it was a Spike Lee movie, and most critics have it out for him anyway, so she didn't receive the praise she should've. She was also great in Introducing Dorothy Dandridge as well.

I thought I read somewhere (awhile back, so I could be wrong) that Bassett refused to do the role because of the nature of the sex scene, which I think she even referred to as porn. I also remember her being upset with the racial elements, but like you, I'd rather not get into all that.

Speaking of Monster's Ball though, Heath sure was in it, and it was the first time I really took notice of his work. He plays Billy Bob's son, who is belittled constantly for being too friendly with the blacks and not adopting his father's views. Ironically, he winds up shooting himself dead in the movie too. I think it was one of his first more "serious" roles we were discussing, where he left the heart throb stuff alone and started expanding his acting chops. Just wish the man could've fulfilled his full potential......

 

[Lemenbolle]

Yup. Someone already mentioned some similarities in humour and mannerisms. And that the way the Joker left the mob meeting seemed like an exit Sparrow would do.

Upon second viewing, I though of Jack Sparrow in one particular scene:

Batman has just crashed his bike, and Gordon comes rescuing him from getting kissed.
Joker says "Could you just give me one minute?"

As if he was in a position to ask for anything....

 

[Bat-Mite]

I don't want to replace Heath at all, but the Joker just cannot disappear after causing so much chaos.

It's not "disappearing" if they lock him up in Arkham.

Especially with the news of Nolan not bringing back Two-Face... The Joker must return in some form.

I disagree. There's no reason as to why the Joker has to return or even why he should return at this point. His part of the story has been told. If Heath was still alive, I'd be more open to the idea, but I'd rather not have his performance being imitated. It just wouldn't be the same. Joker may be the most important Batman villain, but there are still plenty of others that can be used for the third film.

 

[Melkay]

Hold on... wait a second...

You (the original poster) are asking if people felta J. Depp/Jack Sparrow vibe from The Joker?????

That's an actual question?

That's really the title of the thread??

....

Okay, I've got a question now.

Should I feel like a Fascist if I want to put all the pro-recast crowd inside this thread and set in on fire, burning them all alive?

Just asking.

 

[Lemenbolle]

Hold on... wait a second...

You (the original poster) are asking if people felta J. Depp/Jack Sparrow vibe from The Joker?????

That's an actual question?

That's really the title of the thread??

....

Okay, I've got a question now.

Should I feel like a Fascist if I want to put all the pro-recast crowd inside this thread and set in on fire, burning them all alive?

Just asking.

Yes, you should. Or at least feel evil. How would you do that, btw?

Feeling a vibe does not imply anything about recasting.

 

[Melkay]

Yes, you should. Or at least feel evil. How would you do that, btw?

Feeling a vibe does not imply anything about recasting.

Don't worry, I'm only as good as the world allows me to be. And obviously I can't do that, so...

The fact is that now this thread has become a 'recast or not' debate. And I'm passionate about it.

That's it! I'm not evil... I'm passionate. Gotta call my PR and tell him that.

 

[up2nogood316]

Don't worry, I'm only as good as the world allows me to be. And obviously I can't do that, so...

The fact is that now this thread has become a 'recast or not' debate. And I'm passionate about it.

That's it! I'm not evil... I'm passionate. Gotta call my PR and tell him that.

Theres obviously a fine line between being passionate and coming across as a bit of an ass to people who dare not share the same opinion

 

[Mr. Earle]

It's not "disappearing" if they lock him up in Arkham.I disagree. There's no reason as to why the Joker has to return or even why he should return at this point. His part of the story has been told. If Heath was still alive, I'd be more open to the idea, but I'd rather not have his performance being imitated. It just wouldn't be the same. Joker may be the most important Batman villain, but there are still plenty of others that can be used for the third film.

Ok you re right. But what if Nolan had a few more things to do with the joker in the next film?

Ok so Heath left us. I say they should cast someone to imitate his joker (so as not to change the character from movie to movie). Besides, i dont think that Nolan was going to use him as the main villain again. Great as he might have been, it would have gotten boring. So it wouldnt be bad if another actor stepped into heath's shoes for 10 minutes of screentime. At least there should be a scene where batman visits arkham and walks down a corridor where the joker and scarecrow are locked up. Perhaps there we could have a cameo by dr. Harley Quinzel.

But i am all for Catwoman in the third film. A good one, not a gothic psycho like Burton's.

Oh sorry, i almost forgot to answer to the thread's question. No i didnt get any Depp from Heath. Just a bit of Nicholson when he was hanging upside down.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

If Nolan has ideas for the Joker he should deffinatly re-cast. All of us could argue forever about whether thats a good idea or not, but what it comes down to is that none of us are Directors or Screenplay writers, none of us know for sure if it will be good or bad. We can throw ideas out there and have different opinions. But people who seem to think that its FACT that it will be a bad idea piss me off. Who are we to argue against Chris Nolan? Its his decision and if he has plans for Joker he should follow through with them without a doubt.
If Joker is re-casted I don't want to seem Heath imitated, and i don't think he will have to be imitated. Whoever Nolan has in mind should do exactly what Heath did, spend some time alone reading up on Joker, to get the character in their head. Then they can bring their own genuine spin to the character, much like what Heath did.
There is many facets to the Joker, thats what makes him the best villain of all time IMO, there is so much to do with him, it makes me laugh that people think if hes included in 3 then it'll be a re-hash. People who think like that need to go and read a few more comics me thinks!!

 

[Mr. Earle]

Whoever Nolan has in mind should do exactly what Heath did, spend some time alone reading up on Joker, to get the character in their head. Then they can bring their own genuine spin to the character, much like what Heath did.

I just wouldnt want Nolan's joker from Heath-Joker to turn into Hamil-joker. I think that Nolan was only going to use him a little in the third film, so why not just immitate Heath to leave the joker's character intact?

If Nolan has something important to do with him, i say do it whatever it takes. Its the joker, not heath.
If he hasnt got anything to do with the character, at least give him a cameo with harley inside arkham.
But i wouldnt make the joker the main villain again. What, a second movie about him trying to prove his point about chaos? Boring.....

 

[Ace of Knaves]

Yea but that Joker came from within Heath. He obviously got ideas from the comics, but that Joker was created by Heath, i look at him as a twisted, evil version of Heath Ledger. As we know there is multiple personalities to Joker, it even says in some comics like Arkham Asylum. I think it could really break the mould to have a continuous villain, who changes slightly each time we see him. Not a complete personality over-haul, but whoever does it could take Heath example and then spin it their own way. Even someone like Brad Pitt who played a great crazy in Twelve Monkeys, could bring something really interesting to the role if he did what Heath did and delved into the character and brought his own style to it. I'm not saying Pitt is my choice, but i feel any actor worth his salt could immerse himself in the Joker mythos, and come out the other side with a fresh and interesting take on him. Thats what makes Joker so great, he is just crazy and unpredictable, you never know what your gonna get.

 

[Mr. Earle]

Yea but that Joker came from within Heath. He obviously got ideas from the comics, but that Joker was created by Heath, i look at him as a twisted, evil version of Heath Ledger.

Heath Ledger was acting. He is an actor. He wasnt Mario that turned into Wario for gods sake!

And no, if Nolan uses the joker again, it should be the same joker. The same look, the same voice, the same everything. You ve got to understand that it would have been the same had heath gotten into an arguement with Nolan and left. People would want the joker to continue and wouldnt consider heath to be the joker. The joker is a character that will live forever, whoever is cast to portray him each time. Now, most of that joker was down to Nolan. The look and his motives where his work. Heath worked on the acting part of it and the voice.
So the joker isnt Heath's. Hell, it isnt even Nolan's. Its DC's, its ours. And because heath left, doesnt mean scrap.
Should Nolan use the joker again, it should be the same one we saw in the previous film. Because its a character, not heath's spirit for christ's sakes! Stop shooting fandom into your veins and look clearly!

Or would you have liked Russel Crow to have played a different Scarecrow had Murphy not come back? See my point?

 

[Ace of Knaves]

Actually Heath was involved in the make-up and costume design aswell. There was a interview with Lindy Hemming about it, i can't find it now though.
LOL i think you have misunderstood me!! I know that Joker is bigger than Heath Ledger!!! And now that he is unfortunatly dead the exact same portrayal shouldn't be required. I want to see someone else bring the Joker to life with their own twist, I don't wanna see someone come in and copy Heath. The Joker is ours yes, but the portrayal you see in TDK is very much Heaths vision of Joker. What I'm tryin to say is I think it would be stupid to just copy Heaths ledger for the sake of "continuity", its not needed, its been stated many times in the comics that Joker changes slightly everytime he emerges from Arkham. I'm not talking about a complete personality and looks change, but there needs to be the actors own personal twist to Joker, not just a imitation.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

I think your missing something, the reason TDK Joker was so brilliant is because he seemed real, Ledger brought him to life. This isn't about Ledger, its about any actor who takes on the character of Joker. They have to bring something personal for it to work IMO. Joker is one of the most complicated villains ever and to just have him played by the book would be a great injustice to him. There has to be something more there, and i think if hes re-casted then the actor who gets the gig will really have to delve into the phyche of Joker and bring something unique. A imitation of Heaths Joker will never work, you know why? Because the person will not be Heath!! I'm not saying it because its Heath, i would say the same thing if it was any other actor, they have to bring something personal to the role.