The Dark Knight Did anyone feel sorry for the Joker at all??

[kyuubijavi1]

I felt sorry for him when the fireworks never started

=[

his face was like what happened

 

[Matrixo]

For a second when he was telling the story of his wife I was like hrm maybe he has some sort of heart. Then when he said " Now I'm always smiling" I was like HELL YEAH!

 

[obiwan]

i felt bad for him at certain times like when that cezh guy called him a freak at the conference, its like, he looked like he felt bad. but the rest of the time, he was just an evil SOB.

 

[Cinemaman]

I was very impressed during his last dialogue with Batman, when he mentioned that they will never stop fighting against eash other. It was played so well!

 

[The Joker]

There was only one time I felt a little sympathy for him, and that's when the mob guys were mocking him at the meeting. Calling him a freak and say he's insane. It looked like it genuinely upset him when they said that.

Other than that, no I felt no sympathy for him at all. He was an evil, sadistic, ruthless bastard. Just the way I like him

 

[FoJacob]

This is a really good question. And a difficult one to answer. I mean, I love the guy because he's such a freaking fantastic villain and he's so intriguing ... So it's hard to separate that admiration from real feelings that you might have if he was a real person... (Does that make any sense?)

But, yeah... I guess I would say that I did feel a little sorry for him in theory. Not really at any point in the course of the film, but just considering that something has happened at some point in this guy's life to screw him up that badly, to kill all normal human feelings and emotions inside him - it's sad. I don't personally believe that anyone is born bad, so I look at the Joker as someone who got treated so badly or neglected so badly at some point - or has so severe an untreated mental illness - that it results in him acting the way he does. As awful as the things he does are, I think you can feel badly both for his victims and for him - because these are a bunch of lives that are being screwed up all the way around.

Actually I feel sorry for every character in the movie. Batman, the Joker, Rachel, Gordon, and particularly Harvey, and etc. The movie really is a tragedy, if you think about it.

 

[amazingfantasy15]

I didn't want to start a new thread, but no one was responding in the Joker's Quotes thread. So merge if needed.

But did anyone at all feel sorry for the Joker at any point in the movie??

There were a few parts/lines that the way Heath played it, I almost felt bad for him. One was when Gamble called him crazy and he was immediately like, "No I'm not...no I am not". The other time was when he was asking for his phone call. And the last was the fake story about his wife. Heath just gave that story so much intensity that it was almost believable. I guess deep down, I'm just naturally sympathetic, but did anyone else feel this way or am I alone?

Thoughts?

PS: And when I say Joker, I mean the character...not Heath...that's another topic all together.

No, don't feel any sympathy for the character. Had different reactions to each of the points you mention;

The "No, I'm not...no I am not" bit, I didn't see that him being hurt, but giving a little hint that he really did have a master plan about what he was going to do and what would happen. What you saw as weakness, I saw as strength.

The phone call, are you crazy?!?! This was his plan to break out, that's why he wanted it and worked so hard to get it.

The scar story, it's a joke there's nothing behind it, it's the second time we're hearing it. It's an excuse, like that video games cause kids to shoot me schools. He might as well have said, I blame Canada for the scars.

 

[Mr.Jigsaw]

"Wanna know how I got these scars? Well I had a wife.... and she was beautiful, just like....you....... who says that I worry to much. Who says I need to smile more! Well she takes me to Canada for vacation, where we meet this beaver..................

 

[DoesItDepressU]

I didn't feel sorry for him. On the contrary I envied him. He lives with no rules and does what he wants. No boss to please, no gf to put up with, no family to placate, etc.

 

[Squidarella]

HAH!

Well done, Mr. Jigsaw, well done. ("And that beaver, it was a crazy beaver, and a fiend, so...")

That said? My initial reaction to both the scar stories is sympathy, but that fades QUICK, and is replaced by zomghorror! D:
which is as it should be, and feels wonderful.

Still, though. In the first one? When he says "and a fiend," and "Crrrazier than usual," about his dad? A little ouch. And when he's threatened Rachel and he's like, "and she was beautiful, just like you..." A little ouch. But these are fake ouches even within the context of the story, because, you know, they didn't actually happen to him.

I agree with the point made above that Heath gave the Joker a very CHILDISH aspect, which people respond to. I love it, because I think emotional dissonance and confusing signals are what the Joker is all about...

And the bit where he's "no, no I'm not crazy"? The more I think about it, the more I think that what we feel there--what I felt--was a delicious little flash of fear. I did think it screamed "SORE POINT!" ...so you kind of suck your breath in, hoping on some level that they don't poke at that more, because something very bad will happen...
(...something very magical...
...with a pencil.)

 

[ABleedingCorpse]

I never felt bad for him, but his scar story about his wife was pretty messed up in the sense that if you heard a guy say that you'd think "poor guy".

 

[DSET]

There was only one time I felt a little sympathy for him, and that's when the mob guys were mocking him at the meeting. Calling him a freak and say he's insane. It looked like it genuinely upset him when they said that.

Other than that, no I felt no sympathy for him at all. He was an evil, sadistic, ruthless bastard. Just the way I like him

agreed

 

[Sun_Down]

I'm not sure "sorry," is quite the right word, but...

-the "no, no I'm not," thing when the guy calls him crazy (he's so SERIOUS!)
-the nearly feverish mumbles of, "I want you to do it, I want you to do it, I want you to do it," when he's in front of the batpod (it's so seemingly unconscious)

both made me feel for him some. It's NOT pity, but... it's just sort of realizing that the Joker is far more complex than you might first think...wheels are turning; what's it like inside his head?

That said, the Joker is a force of nature...agent of chaos and all. I think it's these little moments that make him feel more like a man possessed--hurtling along like a mad dog (after a car, hah)...it humanizes him JUST enough to make him ****ING SCARY.

Very well put. Those moments make you temporarily see him just a little bit differently.

 

[GoblinWhirlwind]

Like just about everyone else has said, one of the times I do kinda feel bad for him is when all the mob fools call him crazy. He really does seem like he's insulted they'd even suggest that.

 

[CrimsonDeath]

Like just about everyone else has said, one of the times I do kinda feel bad for him is when all the mob fools call him crazy. He really does seem like he's insulted they'd even suggest that.

God that was brilliant, the way he plays it a little hurt or like a child being chided, got a few chuckles out of the audience because it just seems so surreal that the Joker would get insulted at something so obvious.

 

[Grommers]

I felt sorry for him once, and that was when he was talking to Gordon, and told Gordon he was all alone because it made me feel that the joker was always alone.

 

[GoblinWhirlwind]

When he was talking to Gordon it seemed to me like he was always slightly mocking, but trying to make Gordon think he was taking him seriously. Whenever Batman came in, the Joker felt like he found a kindred spirit, and thought Batman should feel the same... which he never would.

 

[Raiden]

I don't feel sympathy for Joker, but I think he's an incredible villain because he's sadistic, ruthless, cold-blooded, lack of conscious, and an all-together SOB who has a master plan and who drove everyone in Gotham crazy. Even Batman almost fell to his plan and contemplate unmasking himself. Every great hero story needs a great villain (like Star Wars' Darth Vader), and Joker is more than an equal to Batman in TDK.

 

[shigsy2003]

Which is the only reason I think the character might be expendable, imo. I did started to feel sorry for him when he began to describe the history behind his scars, but when he kept on changing it, it melted away. Harvey, Goblin, and Ock, villains like these make for an interesting character for we get to know them better. Joker is a superb character but I just don't see how can he be rated the most awesome of all with not even a slightest hint about his past. That's my only complaint with the guy or his creators, I think its cowardly not to give the character a definite origin just to keep him interesting the way he is, but imo giving him a past would deepen his character.

I won't comment on The Dark Knight interpretation of the Joker seeing as how I have yet to see it but based on the comics and TAS I disagree with you.

The Joker is a monster, he is a villian that cannot be talked down, he cannot be reasoned with and he feels no pity. He has no motivations for what he does other than he likes it. He is not afraid to die and he wants more than anything for Batman to kill him. How the hell is Batman supposed to defeat a villian who will not succumb to Batman's greatest weapon: fear? Superhero's are almost iconic in the way they defeat villains by removing the cause of the villians destruction. However in the case of the Joker there is no cause only the effect.

 

[GoblinWhirlwind]

I don't know why some people seem confused about why he kept changing his scar story... I took it to be a reference to what was said in TKJ.

 

[Quinzel]

Joker sees his past as multiple choice.
That's how he was in the comics.

and yeah, i felt sorry for him for a little bit.

But it comes with the love.

 

[Judson Caspian]

Uh, no I didnt. I think you just have too much sympathy

Or maybe you have too little.

 

[BruceWayne]

I don't know why some people seem confused about why he kept changing his scar story... I took it to be a reference to what was said in TKJ.

I know and understand the changing of his story behind his scars. My point was that with his second story, the emotion radiating from Joker/Heath made it seem almost plausable. That is in turn why I felt sorry for him then.

No, don't feel any sympathy for the character. Had different reactions to each of the points you mention;

The "No, I'm not...no I am not" bit, I didn't see that him being hurt, but giving a little hint that he really did have a master plan about what he was going to do and what would happen. What you saw as weakness, I saw as strength.

The phone call, are you crazy?!?! This was his plan to break out, that's why he wanted it and worked so hard to get it.

The scar story, it's a joke there's nothing behind it, it's the second time we're hearing it. It's an excuse, like that video games cause kids to shoot me schools. He might as well have said, I blame Canada for the scars.

I may have mentioned this somewhere in the thread, but my intial response was to feel bad for him because on my first viewing of the film, i didn't know what was going to happen...just thought he wanted his phone call.

 

[GhostPoet]

I never once felt sorry for him...I did respect the fact he was a criminal without a real past and couldn't be bought or used. There was that pureness about him that made him likeable for me. And yet disgusted at the same time.

 

[lambson804]

I took the reaction he gave when the mob was making fun of him and calling him crazy, more as being aggrivated and annoyed for not taking him seriously. And I think that's why he started out with his "magic trick" to show them that he's not messing around and that he means business. I mean, hell, he killed one of the mob members right in front of THE REST OF THE MOB, and he didn't bat (haha) an eyelash or even hesitate.

Because of his history (which ever he may choose at that time), and because of his mindset, he's able to think in a way that the mob is not able to. That's why he said that he knows why they're afraid to go out at night and do their business, and why they're not looking at the real problem. Joker is a man who lives without fear (except for bringing it onto others), so he understands what the real "problem" is with Gotham City..He sees the bigger picture. He also wants to die by the hands of Batman. He laughs as he falls to his possible death, and he practically begs for Bats to slam into him with the Batpod.. He WANTS Bats to kill him/break his rule, to corrupt him the way he did Dent

He has this insight that he's trying to help the mob (he also has his own plans but this is what the mob is supposed to take it as), and all they're doing is laughing at him and calling him a freak- completely disregarding what he's telling them... If you go back and notice how he leaves his "business card" it should give some insight on what I mean.. He says "Here's my card, when you guys want to get serious"