Transformers Did Starscream Shoot...

[iLLy_DNA]

Yeah its definitely hard to say either way but dang its made oddly ambiguous. My whole issue with it is you never see SS fly away. He joins the pack, missles are fired, thats it. You don't see from which planes but he's definitely in that pack so its possible. So why not think it was purposely edited that way. They obviously edited Barricades death out, so why not throw this in?

 

[Grievous]

maybe we will find out in the next movie when we see what Starscream does.

 

[Avangarde]

Ya think?

 

[El Bastardo]

I just saw the movie again last night. I was paying strict attention to that scene with the jets. Sorry, it is physically impossible to tell if he fired with them or not. It was a mess of rockets hitting Megatron and it did not, repeat, did not show which rockets were from which of the jets. As badass as it would have been if he did fire at Megatron, you can't tell.

Not to mention, I think if they wanted him to fire at Megatron the makers would have made it really obvious so people could actually tell.

Or, you know, it was an ambiguous nod to G1 fans for purposes of being nothing more than an ambiguous nod to G1 fans. That is to say, something that G1 and/or any Transformers fan will pick up on if they notice it, but not over-the-top CLEAR to every single audience member, which will have non-fans scratching their heads wondering why a fellow Decepticon would help kill its own leader.

There were numerous non-obvious nods to G1 fans throughout the movies that had nothing to do with anything, were vague and unimportant (like their G1 counterpart vehicles being seen in scenes with them) and normal movie-goers wouldn't notice. Fans, however will. Why must this be -any- different?

I haven't said once that Starscream absolutely-positively shot Megatron. I don't think anyone in this thread has. I've said that it sure looks like he's a part of it, and I picked up on it, thought about it, and think it's what happened. I'm not calling that fact. Unlike certain other person(s) who say "UH OH, MOVIE DIDN'T SHOW IT, DIDN'T HAPPEN, HAR HAR HAR."

It's an "interesting rumor" that hasn't been denied and I can most definitely see it picked up in a sequel as a plot thread. I think the evidence is there, whether a thirteen-minute slow motion segment showing the missiles shooting from Starscream, doing loops and twirls and other things, and then finally hitting Megatron was shown or not.

And, again, just to repeat myself in the hope that it might actually get through to someone reading this, considering there was no development for Starscream or even inclusion of him until the last half-hour or so, it wasn't made "really obvious" that it happened so that it wouldn't be something with no build up. So that it wouldn't confuse normal movie-goers. If they choose to pick it up as a plot thread for a sequel, well, they can certainly build upon it and develop it, can't they?

 

[Rezzo]

Is this like who shot first Han or Greedo?

 

[Golgo-13]

"Starscream didn't shoot...I did!"

 

[Seraphartman]

Yes ^ from the looks of it this is going to be one of those Han Greedo things.

 

[Boiiinng]

Or, you know, it was an ambiguous nod to G1 fans for purposes of being nothing more than an ambiguous nod to G1 fans.

Stop it...just....stop.

 

[tviceman]

Or, you know, it was an ambiguous nod to G1 fans for purposes of being nothing more than an ambiguous nod to G1 fans. That is to say, something that G1 and/or any Transformers fan will pick up on if they notice it, but not over-the-top CLEAR to every single audience member, which will have non-fans scratching their heads wondering why a fellow Decepticon would help kill its own leader.

But this is ambigious to the point where it may not have actually happened. It's not even clear to G1 fans that it actually happened. It was never implied that he shot Megatron and at no point in the movie did the rivalry between Starscream and Megatron present itself other than the "you failed me again starscream" line.

I honestly think people are giving the script and Michael Bay too much credit on this situation. It'd be really cool if he did shoot Megatron, but if after a week and a half debate, plus questions to to those who worked on the film, this still isn't answered then it's most likely a pipe dream many G1 fans want to believe as so to make the movie even more glorious in their minds.

I love movie easter eggs, but I think this just wishful thinking. I really, really, really hope the next Transformers has more clear-cut easter eggs, less cut-away action, and a much more epic Prime vs. Megatron fight.

 

[CFlash]

But this is ambigious to the point where it may not have actually happened. It's not even clear to G1 fans that it actually happened. It was never implied that he shot Megatron and at no point in the movie did the rivalry between Starscream and Megatron present itself other than the "you failed me again starscream" line.

I honestly think people are giving the script and Michael Bay too much credit on this situation. It'd be really cool if he did shoot Megatron, but if after a week and a half debate, plus questions to to those who worked on the film, this still isn't answered then it's most likely a pipe dream many G1 fans want to believe as so to make the movie even more glorious in their minds.

I love movie easter eggs, but I think this just wishful thinking. I really, really, really hope the next Transformers has more clear-cut easter eggs, less cut-away action, and a much more epic Prime vs. Megatron fight.

I agree. Although maybe it's something ILM snuck in.... like the way they suppossedly snuck in the Millenium Falcon into the big Starfleet/Borg battle in Star Trek: First Contact.

In any case, you're right. If it is there, it's not part of the narrative and it means absolutely nothing given that their rivalry was never presented in the movie. Not once. Had Starscream responded to Megatron's dress down (all it would have taken is one or two lines of dialog), it may have made sense.

 

[El Bastardo]

In any case, you're right. If it is there, it's not part of the narrative and it means absolutely nothing given that their rivalry was never presented in the movie. Not once. Had Starscream responded to Megatron's dress down (all it would have taken is one or two lines of dialog), it may have made sense.

This is exactly what I wrote, only a tad shorter. I don't see what the problem is.

 

[Grievous]

Ya think?

I'm sure of it!

 

[zwesell]

Starscream did not shoot Megs. I have the movie on DVD and I scrutinized the final battle closely.

There are two waves of F22 called in. The first wave scored hits against Devastator before moving on to assist the ground forces against Megatron.

If you watch the film closely, one of the raptor pilots says "Second wave on approach." Immediatley after he says this, Starscream transforms and starts wrecking shop. While he kicks a@@, the first wave of F22s start firing missiles at Megs.

It sounds good, but Starscream wasn't part of the squad of planes shooting at Megatron. He was busy taking out the second squad.

 

[Kap]

Starscream did not shoot Megs. I have the movie on DVD and I scrutinized the final battle closely.

There are two waves of F22 called in. The first wave scored hits against Devastator before moving on to assist the ground forces against Megatron.

If you watch the film closely, one of the raptor pilots says "Second wave on approach." Immediatley after he says this, Starscream transforms and starts wrecking shop. While he kicks a@@, the first wave of F22s start firing missiles at Megs.

It sounds good, but Starscream wasn't part of the squad of planes shooting at Megatron. He was busy taking out the second squad.

Fair enough, but didn't Starscream transform back into a jet just before they cut to Megatron getting blasted by the missiles from the first wave? Isn't it possible that he sneaks a missile in there as well? I've only seen it once so you'll have to correct me if i'm wrong but didn't het ransform back and forth and finally back to jetform?

 

[Lone]

If SS was of the jets that shot at Megs, the only way to confirm would be to see if one of the jets in the attack has some damage on it...since SS was shot at and if I remember correctly, it left a mark on him.

 

[zwesell]

Just scrubbed thru frame by frame. No mark was left on SS...

 

[zwesell]

Fair enough, but didn't Starscream transform back into a jet just before they cut to Megatron getting blasted by the missiles from the first wave? Isn't it possible that he sneaks a missile in there as well? I've only seen it once so you'll have to correct me if i'm wrong but didn't het ransform back and forth and finally back to jetform?

Well anythings possible. But watching it again, you'll see that there is only 4 jets in the 1st wave. After they take out Blackout, there's a few shots that show them fly overhead the street where the final battle takes place. The second wave where SS is at, is just reaching the skyline at that time. There are 7 planes in the second wave (SS is number eight).

SS did transform back and forth, but watching it frame by frame (i'm insane, I know) I noticed, that the second wave changed objective. Initially they were coming to support the ground troops. After SS does his last change back into a jet, one of the pilots says, "stay on him, keep him in your sights." we're left to assume, that the pilots stayed busy with SS while the first wave helped take out Megs.

 

[Giuse86]

Well anythings possible. But watching it again, you'll see that there is only 4 jets in the 1st wave. After they take out Blackout, there's a few shots that show them fly overhead the street where the final battle takes place. The second wave where SS is at, is just reaching the skyline at that time. There are 7 planes in the second wave (SS is number eight).

SS did transform back and forth, but watching it frame by frame (i'm insane, I know) I noticed, that the second wave changed objective. Initially they were coming to support the ground troops. After SS does his last change back into a jet, one of the pilots says, "stay on him, keep him in your sights." we're left to assume, that the pilots stayed busy with SS while the first wave helped take out Megs.

See I think you're partially right. Except for the change of objection. I'm with the people who said SS shot Megs. Now that I got that out of the way here is what I think happend.

I am amazed that no one notice that in that same scene when Starscream was indeed damaged, he transformed into a homanoid form and marked the jet to the left of him with his finger and damaged it in the same exact place he was. Then transformed back into a jet and fell back behind the jet he just marked leading the other two jets. Could he have possibly told the other jets to stay on him?

If so, could "Stay on him!" mean "Stay on the Decoy" or "Stay on the target which was Megatron" If I'm correct, if they're objective was to shoot at Megatron they would want to try and reach they're objective, and target.

That's my 2 cents

Edit. btw I've seen the movie 4 times in theaters. And I strongly beleive that there are just thing that boot leg movies just can't show you as clearly since there quality is poor.

Good example, Who saw Brock's Skeleton in SM3. I saw the movie 3 times, twice in the theater and once in IMAX. The first time I saw it at a regular theater I missed the Skeleton. But the second and especialy the Imax I saw it clear as day. Everyone who argued otherwise was because instead of paying to see it again, they just downloaded the boot leg (like I did after seeing it 3 times) and guees what, the brightness of the Pumkinbomb hid the skeleton from view.

My point being, unless you've seen it more than once in the theater you can't use bootlegs as a reliable souce...

 

[Lone]

See I think you're partially right. Except for the change of objection. I'm with the people who said SS shot Megs. Now that I got that out of the way here is what I think happend.

I am amazed that no one notice that in that same scene when Starscream was indeed damaged, he transformed into a homanoid form and marked the jet to the left of him with his finger and damaged it in the same exact place he was. Then transformed back into a jet and fell back behind the jet he just marked leading the other two jets. Could he have possibly told the other jets to stay on him?

If so, could "Stay on him!" mean "Stay on the Decoy" or "Stay on the target which was Megatron" If I'm correct, if they're objective was to shoot at Megatron they would want to try and reach they're objective, and target.

That's my 2 cents

Edit. btw I've seen the movie 4 times in theaters. And I strongly beleive that there are just thing that boot leg movies just can't show you as clearly since there quality is poor.

Good example, Who saw Brock's Skeleton in SM3. I saw the movie 3 times, twice in the theater and once in IMAX. The first time I saw it at a regular theater I missed the Skeleton. But the second and especialy the Imax I saw it clear as day. Everyone who argued otherwise was because instead of paying to see it again, they just downloaded the boot leg (like I did after seeing it 3 times) and guees what, the brightness of the Pumkinbomb hid the skeleton from view.

My point being, unless you've seen it more than once in the theater you can't use bootlegs as a reliable souce...

Thanks for validating what I brought up regarding damage to SS...it's hard to miss that part IMO..

I have to watch it again in and look out for the part you mentioned abt SS marking another jet to look like him.

 

[GhostPoet]

Yes yes...but did Han Solo shoot first?

 

[Riddick2009]

Thanks for validating what I brought up regarding damage to SS...it's hard to miss that part IMO..

I have to watch it again in and look out for the part you mentioned abt SS marking another jet to look like him.

I didn't notice him getting damaged, which I have only seen the movie twice in theaters and once on bootleg, which is **** quality. Are you saying he got damaged and then tried to damage another Jet to look like him? If so I totally missed that, haha. I myself do think Starscream shot Megatron but I am also optimistic. I do remember one of the writers or producers said that Starscream will be up to his old tricks, I can't remember their name but I do remember reading that. I hope he shot him cause it would make for an awesome way of Starscream getting his.

 

[Giuse86]

I didn't notice him getting damaged, which I have only seen the movie twice in theaters and once on bootleg, which is **** quality. Are you saying he got damaged and then tried to damage another Jet to look like him? If so I totally missed that, haha. I myself do think Starscream shot Megatron but I am also optimistic. I do remember one of the writers or producers said that Starscream will be up to his old tricks, I can't remember their name but I do remember reading that. I hope he shot him cause it would make for an awesome way of Starscream getting his.

EXACTLY!!!! Like Bruce did in with the Ninjas Batman Beguins!

 

[Figs]

I said it once before and I'll say it again. Second time seeing the movie I knew to watch for this scene to see if he in fact does shoot Megatron. He does not, sorry to break it to you. You have no idea how much I would love, absolutly love for him to shoot at Megatron, he just doesn't though. Watching that scene, they never focused to show you in any shots if the attack on Megs was also from Starscream. It would have had to have been edited out. Hopefully if there is an Extended/Directors Cut on DVD it will put in a possibly shot scene where it actually shows Starscreams' attacks hit Megatron. Don't believe me, watch the movie again. If they wanted the audience, especially the general audience who have no idea Starscream in the show always trys to take command, to see him firing at Megs......they would have made it obvious. If it were obvious this thread wouldn't exist in the first place, which would be a good thing.

 

[Giuse86]

I said it once before and I'll say it again. Second time seeing the movie I knew to watch for this scene to see if he in fact does shoot Megatron. He does not, sorry to break it to you. You have no idea how much I would love, absolutly love for him to shoot at Megatron, he just doesn't though. Watching that scene, they never focused to show you in any shots if the attack on Megs was also from Starscream. It would have had to have been edited out. Hopefully if there is an Extended/Directors Cut on DVD it will put in a possibly shot scene where it actually shows Starscreams' attacks hit Megatron. Don't believe me, watch the movie again. If they wanted the audience, especially the general audience who have no idea Starscream in the show always trys to take command, to see him firing at Megs......they would have made it obvious. If it were obvious this thread wouldn't exist in the first place, which would be a good thing.

If it was plainly obvious then general audience wouldn't know WHY he was attacking his own leader. They'd be confused.

Didn't the prequal novel say that Starscream came to earth hoping to destroy Megatron before the other Decepticons could revive him? If so then what would stop him from attacking him with the jets.

They gave nods to the G1 fans though by showing sertain attributes from thier movie counter parts.

The best example of one of many Nods would be when Megatron was telling Sam to give him the Cube. Why did Starscream just stand on top of a biulding and watch. He could have just flown by Sam and snatch him or the cube. But he just watched...waiting for his opportunity to strike.

again my 2 cents...

 

[Figs]

If it was plainly obvious then general audience wouldn't know WHY he was attacking his own leader. They'd be confused.

Didn't the prequal novel say that Starscream came to earth hoping to destroy Megatron before the other Decepticons could revive him? If so then what would stop him from attacking him with the jets.

They gave nods to the G1 fans though by showing sertain attributes from thier movie counter parts.

The best example of one of many Nods would be when Megatron was telling Sam to give him the Cube. Why did Starscream just stand on top of a biulding and watch. He could have just flown by Sam and snatch him or the cube. But he just watched...waiting for his opportunity to strike.

again my 2 cents...

I agree with you 100% with the scene where Starscream just sits there and watches Megatron try and get the cube from Sam. As for the jets firing on Megatron, for the last time.....you cannot tell for a fact that Starscream is firing as well. It's all just fanboy wishing in your head. So when you watch the movie your saying to yourself that that's Starscream shooting at him. While everyone else knows it's the human piloted jets........and maybe Starscream.