Arrow Dinah Laurel Lance/Katie Cassidy Thread

[charl_huntress]

There are not that many great/well known female superheroines that can kick butt as it is.Taking one and forcing them to stay wheelchair bound always seemed a waste to me.

Okay...but the possibility of Sara (or any of them) being gravely injured are possible. It would be a natural progression if it were to happen.

I just don't see Cassidy being able to pull off tough and likable. She'll pretty much be Ruby from Supernatural, if she becomes the next Canary.

lol....That's a callback. I wasn't a fan of Ruby for many reasons. You may have a point there.

Since when is looking up a disease on a computer, being computer savvy?

t: Savvy as in she is not clueless and she mentioned that she has some skills.

 

[Dark Raven]

Is it Laurel the character, Cassidy or both together? I'm trying to figure out why people don't like Laurel. I haven't been a fan of all the drama and back peddling with her character, but I see that as more of a story fault. They just haven't had a lot to do with her, but make her ***** and complain. I guess I see potential in her doing more than that.

It's both. The actress is unbearable to watch and the character isn't likeable at all and also really dull to follow. Like I said, she's like a TV show I have no interest in.

Since when is looking up a disease on a computer, being computer savvy?

Okay...but the possibility of Sara (or any of them) being gravely injured are possible. It would be a natural progression if it were to happen.

lol....That's a callback. I wasn't a fan of Ruby for many reasons. You may have a point there.

t: Savvy as in she is not clueless and she mentioned that she has some skills.

In that case, everyone here is capable of being Oracle since, presumably, we can all use a computer and look up something on the net.

 

[charl_huntress]

It's both. The actress is unbearable to watch and the character isn't likeable at all and also really dull to follow. Like I said, she's like a TV show I have no interest in.

Hmmm...I understand where you are coming from because I've heard this a lot about Cassidy. I guess I just don't really see it because she's not that bad of an actress. I just see her character as unlikeable because she's never really been put in a likeable position. In your case and I'm sure for others there is nothing that can be done to redeem her...I just don't agree.

In that case, everyone here is capable of being Oracle since, presumably, we can all use a computer and look up something on the net.

LOLOLOL...You have a point...lol

 

[Primal Slayer]

Having watched Katie in 4 different roles I like her as a basic actress and I've seen her range so I'm cool with jet.

 

[Mikelus]

Hmmm...I understand where you are coming from because I've heard this a lot about Cassidy. I guess I just don't really see it because she's not that bad of an actress. I just see her character as unlikeable because she's never really been put in a likeable position.

I don't think Caity Lotz is a great actress either, but Cassidy has a better resume so...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katie_Cassidy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caity_Lotz

Anyway, if Laurel would've been BC from the start, I don't think haters/whiners would have that much to say. The producers are using Sara as the beginning of the BC legacy, she's just the first. It would be extremely lame if someone like Slade doesn't at least hurt Sara badly, that's why I said she could be incapacitated, they don't have to kill her. And because their universe is grounded, the whole Canary thing should come from somewhere, we know where Laurel will get the inspiration from, like Oliver got it from Yao Fei and Shado.

Like many elements of Season 1, it’s another example of giving us not quite exactly what we’d expect. “It’s something that we’ve done all of last season. The first Green Arrow that we met wasn’t Oliver. If you think about it, on the island, it was Yao Fei. The first Deathstroke that we met wasn’t Slade Wilson. The first Merlyn that we met turned out to not be the actual Merlyn the Archer. So, all we’re really doing with Caity’s character is really beginning the story of the Black Canary, in a way that I think people might not be expecting based on the way the comic books go. There’s been a method to our madness and it seems to have pleased people so far, and we hope people continue to go on the ride with us, because it’s a great storyline, there are great twists to it, and it’s going to have a tremendous impact on Katie Cassidy’s character this season,” Kreisberg explained.

http://www.greenarrowtv.com/interview-arrows-producers-talk-expectations-black-canary/14641

 

[charl_huntress]

That's a good quote. Thanks for posting that Mikelus!

 

[Herolee10]

I just don't see the logic in killing off a character that's perceived as generally awesome (ala Sara) in favor of giving the spotlight to a character that's not perceived as such (ala Laurel).

 

[Human Torch]

^ which is why I think they likely won't go through with it.

 

[Herolee10]

Heck, even before Season 8 of "Smallville", despite some crazy fans hoping for Erica's Lois to die so that Chloe could be magically revealed into being the supposed "real" Lois due to how Chloe was a lot farther up in the "Journalism" field, along with how many times she partnered up with Clark for investigations, Erica's Lois at least demonstrated some of the basic characteristic traits that the Iconic Lois Lane was known to have, and she had a healthy amount of fans that supported her in general.

This isn't the case with Laurel, who hasn't displayed any "Iconic Black Canary" traits since Early Season 1.

 

[JC00]

Like many elements of Season 1, it’s another example of giving us not quite exactly what we’d expect. “It’s something that we’ve done all of last season. The first Green Arrow that we met wasn’t Oliver. If you think about it, on the island, it was Yao Fei. The first Deathstroke that we met wasn’t Slade Wilson. The first Merlyn that we met turned out to not be the actual Merlyn the Archer. So, all we’re really doing with Caity’s character is really beginning the story of the Black Canary, in a way that I think people might not be expecting based on the way the comic books go. There’s been a method to our madness and it seems to have pleased people so far, and we hope people continue to go on the ride with us, because it’s a great storyline, there are great twists to it, and it’s going to have a tremendous impact on Katie Cassidy’s character this season,” Kreisberg explained.

http://www.greenarrowtv.com/intervie...k-canary/14641

A little reminder about this, this interview was done back before they even started shooting the season which was 3 months before they got any feedback about Caity Lotz's Black Canary from the fans.

Add that with the fact that these producers have gone out of there way to say they listen to their fans and know when to change plans.

So this whole thing will tell us if they really listen to fans or not. I know Laurel/Cassidy fanboys won't admit it but I think the majority opinion among the viewers if you polled them and asked "Would you like Sara to stay Canary throughout the series?", would be yes.

 

[DrRocket]

^ well said.

 

[dsfjr1190]

If Sara has to die and someone has to replace her as Black Canary... it should be Sin.

It makes more sense than Laurel.

Katie should be thinking of leaving the show. Although I complain about her a lot, she does have some talent. I'm sure there are plenty of roles out there that fit her range. This just isn't the genre for her.

 

[charl_huntress]

Wow....there are some serious Laurel haters here.

 

[plin]

A little reminder about this, this interview was done back before they even started shooting the season which was 3 months before they got any feedback about Caity Lotz's Black Canary from the fans.

One of the showrunners confirmed it again in one of the press interviews from the last three or four episodes. Those guys do a ton of interviews so I'm not going to bother trying to find it, but it's out there.

They could still change their minds, but they're getting close to finishing season 2's scripts.

 

[Infinity9999x]

Wow....there are some serious Laurel haters here.

Part of it is that some people really seem to dislike Cassidy, but I think most of the fault lies with the writers. Their idea for her arc isn't a bad one, breaking a character down to build her back up, but they've done it in a very poor way. Unfortunately, for them, breaking down also equals making her unlikeable, which doesn't really make sense to me. I've used this comparison often, but Jamie Lannister's arc in GOT is a great example of a character being broken down, but a character that grew MORE likeable with every rung he was taken down.

 

[charl_huntress]

^^Good point, Infinity9999x, I agree that a lot of the Laurel hate lies with the writers. The didn't do a lot to make her likeable. It's like they didn't even try, but I'm still invested in seeing this character built up...so they did at least one thing right.

 

[Infinity9999x]

^^Good point, Infinity9999x, I agree that a lot of the Laurel hate lies with the writers. The didn't do a lot to make her likeable. It's like they didn't even try, but I'm still invested in seeing this character built up...so they did at least one thing right.

Honestly, it felt like they tried to make her purposefully unlikeable. Some of the details they added, like Laurel knowing that Sarah had a crush on Oliver first...I really don't know what the point of that was. It added literally nothing to the story of Arrow besides making Laurel a bit more unlikeable, and making Oliver and Sarah's fling seem a tad more justified.

I don't know why they would add stuff like that, not if they want people to like Laurel.

 

[plin]

Part of it is that some people really seem to dislike Cassidy, but I think most of the fault lies with the writers. Their idea for her arc isn't a bad one, breaking a character down to build her back up, but they've done it in a very poor way. Unfortunately, for them, breaking down also equals making her unlikeable, which doesn't really make sense to me. I've used this comparison often, but Jamie Lannister's arc in GOT is a great example of a character being broken down, but a character that grew MORE likeable with every rung he was taken down.

Jamie is a very good example of doing that right. He always had humor early on that made him somewhat likable, but then later they added a bunch of little things that made you like him more and more.

It's puzzling because the Arrow writers did the opposite with Laurel. While they destroyed her life, instead of adding little details that would make you like her they added negative details like retconning the Laurel/Oliver/Sara dynamic by saying Laurel called the cops on Sara when she had a crush on Oliver and then stole him away while Sara was grounded. There's no point whatsoever to that detail except making Sara look a lot better and making Laurel look terrible. Or putting her in charge of getting Moira on death row, even though it makes zero sense for her to be on the case.

If I didn't see the writers continuously deny it, I'd think they were making Laurel as unlikable as they can to write her out of the show and keep Sara. It baffles me.

 

[DrRocket]

So hot!

 

[Herolee10]

Honestly, it felt like they tried to make her purposefully unlikeable. Some of the details they added, like Laurel knowing that Sarah had a crush on Oliver first...I really don't know what the point of that was. It added literally nothing to the story of Arrow besides making Laurel a bit more unlikeable, and making Oliver and Sarah's fling seem a tad more justified.

I don't know why they would add stuff like that, not if they want people to like Laurel.

Well, personally, I think the biggest problem is that during this process of breaking her down, they decided to bring in Sara as the "Black Canary", which was a very bad idea if they were still planning on building Laurel into becoming that character later on.

Plus, Laurel didn't even have the "best" of reception even before Season 2 started, so to take a character like that and to throw her down further into the drain while introducing a new character to fill in those shoes for awhile in the same time was rather not the best of ideas.

It's pretty much like a regular guy trying to throw his Girlfriend off his scent, who's been expecting him to propose to her, by acting like a *****e and bringing in a charming and very nice guy for her to interact with several times in the same time.lol

 

[Mikelus]

Wow....there are some serious Laurel haters here.

She's not the only one though, the Huntress is hated by many too, it just shows the writing is not that good sometimes.

One of the showrunners confirmed it again in one of the press interviews from the last three or four episodes. Those guys do a ton of interviews so I'm not going to bother trying to find it, but it's out there.

They could still change their minds, but they're getting close to finishing season 2's scripts.

Yep, this one is from this year, but haters are going to hate anyway:

TVLINE | That’s good to hear, because one of my questions was how you planned to make Laurel relevant to this next wave of storytelling, beyond possibly dating Sebastian.

You know, it’s been somewhat hard, I think, for Katie and us to hear some of the criticisms of her character because we don’t do anything without thinking about it. And one of the great things about having as much success as we had in Season 1 was the freedom to allow things to unfold the way that they should. We’ve always had a fantastic plan for Laurel’s character, and I know that there’s impatience out there in the world to see her “strap on the fish nets” [as Black Canary] but everything we’re doing is all about leading up to that in a the way that we feel keeps it the most realistic and grounded. To take somebody who is a public interest lawyer and turned her into a super hero… you have to go through the paces. So this season we’ve really been putting her through her paces.

http://tvline.com/2014/01/14/arrow-season-2-spoilers-oliver-versus-slade-laurel-felicity-diggle/

 

[DrRocket]

^ I wouldn't say people are anxious to see her put on the fish nets....

 

[godisawesome]

Well if you're a major fan of the character Laurel Lance, then you definitely want her in fishnets so she can gain some ground back against the pro-Sara faction.

And I think it's important to remember that Laurel was initially conceived as the female lead for a CW series, and that a lot of her characteristics derive from that archetype. And since those character run off personal drama more than action drama, a lot of fans didn't like her, and the writers hurt her hard in the first season as well. Everyone else has some major heroic action or extreme circumstance that they positively react to in the Undertaking (Tommy standing up to his father, Moira exposing the Undertaking and starting the evacuation, Roy fighting looters and saving people, Thea going to rescue Roy and nailing one of his opponents with a beer bottle, Felicity and Lance shutting down Merlin's machine), and all of it melds, until we get to Laurel. She.... Interrupts and kills the flow of the episode to discuss her feeling on getting back together with Oliver. And then she stays in her office after being informed of the Undertaking and tries to rescue...papers. And this is what gets Tommy killed.

I'm not blaming the character for it, but she was basically given the most stereotypical Rachel-Dawes style climax to her story in the finale, while everyone else became awesome and did something cool. And presumably, this was because that was her "assignment" in the eyes of the producers; not to do something extraordinary or badass, but to be "relateable" and a pseudo-audience-surrogate. It didn't seem to occur to them that the audience might be more engaged and latched onto the more escapist-storylines of Thea (princess and the pauper romance) or Felicity (geeks will rule the world and stand side-by-side with badasses). Which may explain why her position as female lead seems usurped by Felicity and Thea.

The creators' concept of her role alone screws her over as much as anything else.

 

[charl_huntress]

Honestly, it felt like they tried to make her purposefully unlikeable. Some of the details they added, like Laurel knowing that Sarah had a crush on Oliver first...I really don't know what the point of that was. It added literally nothing to the story of Arrow besides making Laurel a bit more unlikeable, and making Oliver and Sarah's fling seem a tad more justified.

I don't know why they would add stuff like that, not if they want people to like Laurel.

Some of the things they added do make you scratch your head. It is as though they want people to actively dislike her, which isn't a good idea if you are planning on making her character into a super hero. I'm wondering if part of the reason they did this was to build up Sara.

She's not the only one though, the Huntress is hated by many too, it just shows the writing is not that good sometimes.

Yeah...they did my girl wrong. *shakes head*. I try not to think about on her on this show tbh.

Yep, this one is from this year, but haters are going to hate anyway:

Thanks for posting that quote, Mikelus. I had wondered if they had a plan for Laurel, and it appears they do, but they have not executed that plan well considering how much hate the character has garnered. You bring up a good point about Huntress. That's another character they really screwed up, so it's not surprising to see Laurel in this situation. The writers can be really hit or miss when it comes to the females on the show.

 

[Trex1979]

Personally I'm amazed at how every conversation about Dinah/Katie invariably turns into a recreation of RASHOMON.