Days of Future Past "Director's Cut": The Official Matthew Vaughn Thread

[JP]

And all these reviews saying how compelling the relationship of the films 2 leads are. How necessary they both are. How fantastically cast they are.

It's just overwhelmingly obvious that Xavier got the shaft.

 

[Loganbabe]

Ok.

 

[pyromaniac]

Uh, I'm not judging it. I'm speculating about it, or about some characters, just like the majority of people here. It's not a crime.


They're not "conclusions". I think it's quite obvious that I don't know how the situation develops, but it's in my right to - again - speculate about it. I just find it a bit strange how one character goes from one point to the other, especially when it involves something as serious and deep like a friendship that started when Charles and Raven were kids. If she were just a girl he met in Oxford I really wouldn't give it a second thought, but Vaughn decided to make Xavier and Raven share this strong bond, which is intriguing to say the least.
Anyway, you believe it was well explained. Right, I'll see the movie and come to my own conclusions.

Actually other people believe that it was well explained too. So logic follows you can draw similar conclusions.

And where in my post did I say he said that? What he actually said was "It was Magneto I was obsessed with". So maybe he should go and propose a solo MagnetoBond film to FOX - but this is me saying it, not Vaughn. I never read anywhere that he wanted to do a solo film.
But not even Singer, who we all know really loves Wolverine, never singled out the character as "the one I'm obsessed with". He always talked in terms of the team. Maybe he loved Wolverine more, but I never got this vibe from him. Vaughn has all the right to say he's more interested in such and such characters, but it still bugs me, sorry.

Just singling you out for saying that Vaughn dreams of making a solo film. Good to clarify that this is you saying it.

So why did he say "Magneto needs another nemesis now that Xavier is in a wheelchair"? I mean, way to put the character who's supposed to be the other half, the antithesis, down. Maybe if he had said "Xavier now has the school and the kids, and his own situation to worry about, Magneto will fight some other villain" etc, it wouldn't bother me. What bothers me is the impression that he's always removing Xavier from the picture.
I think that Xavier/the school is more of a Bryan Singer thing. Vaughn would probably be perfectly happy to get away from all that and concentrate only in Magneto and the Brotherhood.

They're not full on nemeses. They have a fair bit to go in the sequel before they officially part ways. That's my speculation though. Besides they were always still nemeses in the later films, in a true sense of the word if you think about it. Besides, it's not a cardinal rule that you must have only one nemesis. Someone else will come long to fill in Shaw's shoes.

Spoiler

In fact Shaw was already a nemesis long before Xavier came along.

I'm not trying to make him a anything. Vaughn is doing it himself. There's really a thin line between being blunt and being obnoxius. He was, I have to say, obnoxious when he said "James is still in the film...just." or "James is an actor and actors don't necessarily know what's best for them. That's on the record.", when there was this discussion about the British Film Council. Anyway, maybe it's a case - for me, personally - of liking a film but not necessarily liking its director.

Are you saying Vaughn doesn't recognise McAvoy's talents, or if he does, he seems to concentrate on Fassbender's a bit more??

On an aside, Bacon the veteran actor has lamented that Vaughn can be 'borderline insulting' but that he's 'right on the mark.' So you aren't the only one who feels that way, at least in the former. As for being on the mark, perhaps that's true too, in terms of a filmmaker's perspective.

 

[pyromaniac]

And all these reviews saying how compelling the relationship of the films 2 leads are. How necessary they both are. How fantastically cast they are.

It's just overwhelmingly obvious that Xavier got the shaft.

Lol, your reverse psychology sarcasm is Kryptonite to Loganbabe.

Loganbabe, in all fairness is more concerned with Vaughn's comments rather than critics. Vaughn, as a director sets an example, I suppose.

 

[Genosha]

Patrick Stewart was iconic in the role and McAvoy has taken it, and by all accounts, did something completely wonderful with it. I've always felt Professor X could one of the hardest characters to translate to the screen and it looks like we X-Men fans got incredibly fortunate with these 2 outstanding actors.

 

[Loganbabe]

Lol, your reverse psychology sarcasm is Kryptonite to Loganbabe.

Yes, because I love writing for one hour straight just to be treated like a babbling idiot through one-second liners. So I'm not going into this anymore.

 

[pyromaniac]

Yes, because I love writing for one hour straight just to be treated like a babbling idiot through one-second liners. So I'm not going into this anymore.

I understand you actually. I just see both sides of the story, that's all. They aren't mutually exclusive.

 

[Project862006]

logan you might have to get used to vaughn he is an ******* he does'nt hide it he embraces it and he does'nt care

 

[danoyse]

OK, I think everyone needs to chill out a little bit...

 

[Loganbabe]

logan you might have to get used to vaughn he is an ******* he does'nt hide it he embraces it and he does'nt care

Maybe. I understand that some people love to treat others based on irony and crude bluntness.
Anyway, like I said, I don't have to like him to like his film.

 

[JP]

 

[danoyse]

[YT]PB-wmOYelnM[/YT]

 

[c-saw]

logan you might have to get used to vaughn he is an ******* he does'nt hide it he embraces it and he does'nt care

oh noes he speaks his mind therefore he's a ********

We need more directors who are about as diplomatic as they come where their words hold zero weight because what they say and what they would want to say are too different things.

The guy doesn't have much sympathy for actors and james is no exception. The fact that he was the first actor vaughn picked and that all those other who tried for the part of magneto needed to be a perfect match with james should signal you in the most obvious manner how crucial he was.

So he prefers the cooler and more complicated character. He did the same in kick-ass.

 

[X-Maniac]

Uh, I'm not judging it. I'm speculating about it, or about some characters, just like the majority of people here. It's not a crime.

Of course not but I'm explaining that some of your speculations don't match up with what we saw on screen and therefore not to get too worried about things you think may happen, because they don't happen in that way.

They're not "conclusions". I think it's quite obvious that I don't know how the situation develops, but it's in my right to - again - speculate about it. I just find it a bit strange how one character goes from one point to the other, especially when it involves something as serious and deep like a friendship that started when Charles and Raven were kids. If she were just a girl he met in Oxford I really wouldn't give it a second thought, but Vaughn decided to make Xavier and Raven share this strong bond, which is intriguing to say the least.
Anyway, you believe it was well explained. Right, I'll see the movie and come to my own conclusions.

I think the point of this film is very much that certain characters go from one point to the other. We see them changed by events. They make choices.

And where in my post did I say he said that? What he actually said was "It was Magneto I was obsessed with". So maybe he should go and propose a solo MagnetoBond film to FOX - but this is me saying it, not Vaughn. I never read anywhere that he wanted to do a solo film.
But not even Singer, who we all know really loves Wolverine, never singled out the character as "the one I'm obsessed with". He always talked in terms of the team. Maybe he loved Wolverine more, but I never got this vibe from him. Vaughn has all the right to say he's more interested in such and such characters, but it still bugs me, sorry.

Okay. Well, whatever Vaughn says about Magneto, he does also show the journeys of other characters. Considering there was at one point an X-Men Origins: Magneto being developed (and not an X-Men Origins: Xavier), I'm not surprised that Magneto's journey is a strong part of this film. But it's not at the expense of everyone else.

So why did he say "Magneto needs another nemesis now that Xavier is in a wheelchair"? I mean, way to put the character who's supposed to be the other half, the antithesis, down. Maybe if he had said "Xavier now has the school and the kids, and his own situation to worry about, Magneto will fight some other villain" etc, it wouldn't bother me. What bothers me is the impression that he's always removing Xavier from the picture.
I think that Xavier/the school is more of a Bryan Singer thing. Vaughn would probably be perfectly happy to get away from all that and concentrate only in Magneto and the Brotherhood.

Well, Xavier won't be a physically active team member if/when he is in wheelchair. But he might still be able to be active on the astral plane in psychic battles, for instance if he battles Emma again. We see a very physically active Xavier in this film. Clearly we can't see that if/when Xavier ends up in a wheelchair.

I'm not trying to make him a anything. Vaughn is doing it himself. There's really a thin line between being blunt and being obnoxius. He was, I have to say, obnoxious when he said "James is still in the film...just." or "James is an actor and actors don't necessarily know what's best for them. That's on the record.", when there was this discussion about the British Film Council. Anyway, maybe it's a case - for me, personally - of liking a film but not necessarily liking its director.

Vaughn speaks his mind and he does so in a way that doesn't pander to the extreme fans. That's a good thing, in my view. His concerns are making a good film that represents the X-Men mythos and he has done that, in my view. There are many elements from the comic books, even though this is not a tale taken from the comics. Vaughn has proved that he and his team have a good grasp on the X-Men of the comics and films.

 

[pyromaniac]

Vaughn speaks his mind and he does so in a way that doesn't pander to the extreme fans. That's a good thing, in my view. His concerns are making a good film that represents the X-Men mythos and he has done that, in my view. There are many elements from the comic books, even though this is not a tale taken from the comics. Vaughn has proved that he and his team have a good grasp on the X-Men of the comics and films.

Brett Ratner springs to mind...

 

[X-Maniac]

Brett Ratner springs to mind...

Well, whatever else Ratner is deemed to have done wrong, I can fully understand his frustration with the fanboy/fangirl contingent, or his desire to ignore them completely. It simply isn't helpful during such a huge production to get sidetracked by the nitpicks, demands and anxieties of fans.

Vaughn's approach has worked (judging by the end result) and his dismissal of obsessional behaviours online is the right way to go. I had to laugh at a quote where he said he wasn't going to listen to some anonymous internet person who might turn out to be an eight-year-old kid. (I've often felt exactly the same!)

 

[The Original Bamfer]

Oh, as have I!

 

[mclay18]

I'm more surprised how many cinematographers Vaughn went through while shooting X-Men: First Class -- five? And John Mathieson is the sole credited one since he did the most (about 45-50%).

Makes me wonder who were the other four...

 

[pyromaniac]

Well, whatever else Ratner is deemed to have done wrong, I can fully understand his frustration with the fanboy/fangirl contingent, or his desire to ignore them completely. It simply isn't helpful during such a huge production to get sidetracked by the nitpicks, demands and anxieties of fans.

Vaughn's approach has worked (judging by the end result) and his dismissal of obsessional behaviours online is the right way to go. I had to laugh at a quote where he said he wasn't going to listen to some anonymous internet person who might turn out to be an eight-year-old kid. (I've often felt exactly the same!)

Oh, I know. I agree wholeheartedly.

A lot of these fans think they can 'own' these properties and have it in their heads they are the absolute authority on what goes. It baffles me.

Yeah, Vaughn was surprised that he was meeting all these different DOPs on set every day. That's unusual. Either they were unavailable on other days, it's new Fox policy or it's a new form of time-share.

Whatever it is, it doesn't seem to have affected the visuals of the film at all, considering that no reviewer has broached this technical aspect.

 

[Loganbabe]

Considering there was at one point an X-Men Origins: Magneto being developed (and not an X-Men Origins: Xavier), I'm not surprised that Magneto's journey is a strong part of this film. But it's not at the expense of everyone else.

Maybe his mind was settled into doing a Magneto movie? I don't know. I'm glad he managed to keep the focus on Charles and the kids as well, because from his interviews it seems he only had eyes for his Bondesque Magneto.

Well, Xavier won't be a physically active team member if/when he is in wheelchair. But he might still be able to be active on the astral plane in psychic battles, for instance if he battles Emma again. We see a very physically active Xavier in this film. Clearly we can't see that if/when Xavier ends up in a wheelchair.

It's kind of sad, I wish Charles hadn't gone there so early. I would have loved to see the more adventurous side of Xavier in at least one more film - like maybe him travelling around the world to find other mutants, his encounter with little Storm in Africa...
Oh well. I think that Vaughn is fascinated with (physically) dynamic characters, that's what worries me about Xavier and his next arc. We'll see.

You've said it's great that Xavier's characterisation has been deepened to make himself more interesting, yet you seem to have accepted Stewart's version in the films. Because that's exactly what he ends up doing. However Vaughn's direction of the character would mean that McAvoy remains more interesting than the later sequels.

Maybe, maybe not. Although I have some idea of what Vaughn wants for Magneto, I have no idea about what he plans for Charles, he never talks about him, other then "he's in a wheelchair now and Magneto has to find another nemesis".

Now, I have a good idea about what James wants for the character. I've seen/read some interviews in which he talks about Charles Xavier with great passion. So I have to disagree that the concept of a more dynamic Charles is purely Vaughn's. Of course, there was a script to follow, but knowing James, and how much he impersonates the characters he plays, I can see him adding a million of little things to Charles, his manneirisms, even one-liners, thus helping to recreate the character and making him his own.
James said once that not all directors like actors offering ideas and trying to collaborate with the creative process, but he does it anyway, even when he pisses them off. t:

Now, in First Class, Vaughn has made sure Xavier is more compelling. And all reviews indicate that. You cannot have it both ways. It's just that, in your eyes, Magneto always seems to 'win out', but you still feign surprise just because he's a bad guy? And that automatically makes the audience want to follow him more, and ergo his ideals?

Actually, I'm not surprised that the "villain", "the bad guy", "the badass" is more popular. Hell, my favorite character is Wolverine, I know exactly how it is. My problem isn't Vaughn being attracted to Magneto, or the audience being attracted to him. My problem is Vaughn saying he's obsessed with Magneto, and that Xavier is boring, which made me worry about that great actor I know so well being all invested in the character while deep down Vaughn is "whatever, I didn't get this gig because of Xavier anyway". I understand that maybe it's a way of Vaughn saying he's a badass at heart, "hey, Magneto is the man, who cares about boring crippled teachers like Xavier, yo?" a "boys will be boys" attitude.

I know Vaughn doesn't hate Xavier. My reaction to things is emotional before it's rational, and I'm pretty much emotionally invested in the film, and I have no problems admitting I'm emotionally invested in McAvoy. I've been reading so much stupid things the fanboys keep saying about him (although the stupid comments are slowly ceasing now), and the "Magneto is the man" tone of Vaughn's interviews was the straw that broke the camel's back.

Anyway, I'd like to thank both you and X-Maniac for debating this in a manner that was both respectful and interested in a dissident opinion. There's nothing I hate more in a discussion than irony as a form of insult just for the sake of it.

 

[The Original Bamfer]

Vaughn seems to have a slight edge for Magneto, yes, but he's made it more than evident that the main character of the film, really, is the relationship between Erik and Charles. I've watched and read all of his interviews and he doesn't seem obsessed with Erik, but he's his favorite character. I watched a ten-minute exchange between Vaughn and Singer where Singer said he relates most to Xavier. Just because he has a character he digs does not mean he's going to overshadow other characters - especially not half of the dynamic of the entire film.

 

[pyromaniac]

Maybe his mind was settled into doing a Magneto movie? I don't know. I'm glad he managed to keep the focus on Charles and the kids as well, because from his interviews it seems he only had eyes for his Bondesque Magneto.

Since that's speculation, there's no point dwelling on the solo film - it's not going to be made anyway since some of his origins were intertwined with First Class.

It's kind of sad, I wish Charles hadn't gone there so early. I would have loved to see the more adventurous side of Xavier in at least one more film - like maybe him travelling around the world to find other mutants, his encounter with little Storm in Africa...
Oh well. I think that Vaughn is fascinated with (physically) dynamic characters, that's what worries me about Xavier and his next arc. We'll see.

I see your point. 'One more film' wouldn't hurt. Well, I'd have to be decidedly optimistic and offer that since McAvoy has already made the character his own, it's very likely that that will continue into the sequel: surprising us with what he can do just from being in a wheelchair. Perhaps it'll be a chance to explore the astral plane. We've never even seen that fully realised. I hear this film touches upon it, but only in a battle context.

Also perhaps psychologically, he'll be still adjusting to life in a wheelchair. We've never really seen a Prof X having to deal with help in going to the bathroom now.

Besides, who's to say Wheels can't travel to Africa regardless anyway? Maybe he'll now be advocating disabled access! Ha ha.

As for your comments that Vaughn is probably fascinated with only physically dynamic characters, well, that's a bit hard to gauge. His tactless way of speaking might make you think that being handicapped equals 'boring' and 'sanctimonious.' I think that maybe it's more of a reflection on his character (before XMFC that is) than anything else. Otherwise handicapped people who read his interviews might have been upset by that.

At any rate, any director doesn't necessarily feel that they have a lot to work with in terms of people restricted by mobility. Although I'm trying to think of prominent characters in movies and television: Avatar and Dark Angel (poor reference but that's all I can think of!) spring to mind. Still, there's a reason that wheelchair-bound characters are rare. But yes, it doesn't mean that they can't be interesting.

Now, I have a good idea about what James wants for the character. I've seen/read some interviews in which he talks about Charles Xavier with great passion. So I have to disagree that the concept of a more dynamic Charles is purely Vaughn's. Of course, there was a script to follow, but knowing James, and how much he impersonates the characters he plays, I can see him adding a million of little things to Charles, his manneirisms, even one-liners, thus helping to recreate the character and making him his own.

I didn't mean that the concept was all Vaughn's. I should've worded it to explicate that it was McAvoy's input as much as his, if not more so.

James said once that not all directors like actors offering ideas and trying to collaborate with the creative process, but he does it anyway, even when he pisses them off. t:

Was he speaking for Vaughn, or in general? It's nice that he contributes because he's emotionally invested in whatever character he plays, rather than stand on the X (pun intended )

Actually, I'm not surprised that the "villain", "the bad guy", "the badass" is more popular. Hell, my favorite character is Wolverine, I know exactly how it is. My problem isn't Vaughn being attracted to Magneto, or the audience being attracted to him. My problem is Vaughn saying he's obsessed with Magneto, and that Xavier is boring, which made me worry about that great actor I know so well being all invested in the character while deep down Vaughn is "whatever, I didn't get this gig because of Xavier anyway". I understand that maybe it's a way of Vaughn saying he's a badass at heart, "hey, Magneto is the man, who cares about boring crippled teachers like Xavier, yo?" a "boys will be boys" attitude.

I know Vaughn doesn't hate Xavier. My reaction to things is emotional before it's rational, and I'm pretty much emotionally invested in the film, and I have no problems admitting I'm emotionally invested in McAvoy. I've been reading so much stupid things the fanboys keep saying about him (although the stupid comments are slowly ceasing now), and the "Magneto is the man" tone of Vaughn's interviews was the straw that broke the camel's back.

Fair enough. I just can only hope Vaughn calling Xavier 'boring' had no bearing on the fact that he's a cripple, but rather than his traditional sort of one-note characterisation from the comics.

Anyway, I'd like to thank both you and X-Maniac for debating this in a manner that was both respectful and interested in a dissident opinion. There's nothing I hate more in a discussion than irony as a form of insult just for the sake of it.

JP, are you taking notes?

 

[psylockolussus]

I hope he directs X-Men: Second Class or X-Men 4.

 

[Loganbabe]

I see your point. 'One more film' wouldn't hurt. Well, I'd have to be decidedly optimistic and offer that since McAvoy has already made the character his own, it's very likely that that will continue into the sequel: surprising us with what he can do just from being in a wheelchair. Perhaps it'll be a chance to explore the astral plane. We've never even seen that fully realised. I hear this film touches upon it, but only in a battle context.

The astral plane could be wonderful, if well made. With scenes of Xavier walking or even helping in battles, as mind projections on the astral plane.
Because I really hate the idea of a very dynamic, cheeky and funny Prof. X going away so soon. But I know it's the kind of role destined to some interesting drama and deep personal changes, if nicely worked.

Also perhaps psychologically, he'll be still adjusting to life in a wheelchair. We've never really seen a Prof X having to deal with help in going to the bathroom now.

I think it's quite interesting, and something I really would like to see. But that's what worries me about the character arc in the second film, because I really would like to see him adjusting to this new reality. To an actor, it's fantastic material, so hopefully to Vaughn and the writers it's not something boring they don't want to deal with

At any rate, any director doesn't necessarily feel that they have a lot to work with in terms of people restricted by mobility. (...) Still, there's a reason that wheelchair-bound characters are rare. But yes, it doesn't mean that they can't be interesting.

I wonder if you have seen one of James' films in which I believe he gave one of his greatest performances, "Inside I'm Dancing" (or "Rory O'Shea was here"). He played a young, punkish guy who was confined to a wheelchair due to severe muscular dystrophy. He was superb in it; it was actually when I became a fan of his work. His character was quite dynamic and fulll of life, even if he could only move one finger. And he wasn't really a nice, sweet guy, so that we would feel sorry for him due his condition.

I think James would revell playing the complexities of the young and dynamic Charles Xavier suddenly losing his ability to walk. But then, like I already said, I'm not worried about what James can do with the character. What worries me is Vaughn being interested enough to give him some wonderful material to work on.

Was he speaking for Vaughn, or in general? It's nice that he contributes because he's emotionally invested in whatever character he plays, rather than stand on the X (pun intended )

He wasn't taking especifically about Vaugh, although Vaughn himself said he and James discussed how they would work on Xavier to make him different from his older self. He was talking about other directors he worked with, and that some like actors giving suggestions, others don't. Michael Hoffman from "The Last Station" said James was a great writer, and he used many of his suggestions of dialogues in the film.
James is very collaborative - not only with directors, with the other actors as well. He will easily take a backseat in favour of a fellow actor, if he feels the movie as a whole will benefit from it.

Fair enough. I just can only hope Vaughn calling Xavier 'boring' had no bearing on the fact that he's a cripple, but rather than his traditional sort of one-note characterisation from the comics.

Exactly. Hopefully he knows that that both him and James came up with a fascinating new version of an established character, so that Xavier will be prominent and have an even better arc than in First Class.

 

[PWN3R]

I'm more surprised how many cinematographers Vaughn went through while shooting X-Men: First Class -- five? And John Mathieson is the sole credited one since he did the most (about 45-50%).

Makes me wonder who were the other four...

Yes! I want to know, guesses:

Roger Deakins
Robert Elswit
Matthew Libatique
Wally Pfister

No, but seriously -- I can't find anything about this. I mean, that's absurd. 4 DPs?? It's a testament to Vaughn as a director that the film came out so good.