🌎 Discussion: Civil Rights, Affirmative Action, Critical Race Theory, Systemic Inequality, and Racism - Part 4

[Lily Adler]

 

[Lily Adler]

 

[CaptainWagner]

I ******* hate it when The Onion is just printing straight facts.

I knew this verdict was coming, and that's why I tried to avoid the coverage of the trial. I just can't deal with the rhetoric. Not just because it's so scary. But because it shows JUST HOW CLOSE we were to real change happening. All this overt reactionary overload from the past year is the system desperately going mask off to halt change. And they've won. There's really no way else to say it.

They've scared and/or lulled the people back into compliance. Cities are reversing their budget cuts, reform motions are getting voted down. And you've got the fresh new Rittenhouse precedent giving fascists of every size and shape the go ahead to pull up to the next protest and start shooting. That after GOP lawmakers nationwide had already launched an onslaught on the right to protest and handed out a license to commit vehicular manslaughter.

I don't know how this gets fixed

 

[NotNickFury]

Not built to hold supremacists accountable? This is more a response to the tweet, but wasn't Derek Chauvin found guilty? Assuming he's a supremacist at all, but he was held accountable for his actions.

 

[NotNickFury]

So clearly we aren't going to see the other side here. I fully believe Rittenhouse should have been convicted. He inserted himself into a situation with a gun and then was surprised when people felt threatened. There's no self defense there, he instigated the whole thing merely by showing up with a gun. He didn't have the right to play cop and walk around "protecting" Kenosha.

If you're sitting at home and you hear that a protest a few clicks away has gotten violent, why the **** would you show up with a gun? That's asking for trouble. The only reason I can see someone doing that is to kill people. Why go otherwise.

Then we'll just agree to disagree, because I don't believe he should've been convicted, even if everyone in the press or those who have demonized Rittenhouse were out for blood. You say he inserted himself in a situation, yet there was no evidence shown either before or during the trial that he went out with a gun with the sole intention to kill. More so when you consider the owner of the shop Rittenhouse went to stand guard of stated he didn't want him or the others there. He was as much asking for trouble as those who were actually causing trouble and mayhem in Kenosha that night.

You say he has no right to 'protect' Kenosha, you may as well tell anyone who is legally allowed to own a firearm that they have no right to protect their community. If that's what you believe, I'm not going to try and change your mind, but obviously I disagree with that train of thought and clearly you and I are on opposite sides of this issue. That's perfectly fine.

 

[InCali]

There are at least two problems that come immediately to my mind. The system of criminal justice favors those who have means and, frankly, favors white people. This isn't to say that no white people are convicted or that no poor or black people gain acquittal. Think of those scales of justice and think of someone with their finger on that scale. Could enough weight be put on the other side to counterbalance it or tip it the other way? Of course, but that isn't "justice".

If you can afford a good attorney, you have that finger on the scale that someone who is being represented by an overworked public defender doesn't. How is that justice? I haven't surveyed juries, but in these high profile cases, I see mostly white people. I think that, in addition to ability to pay an attorney, the process itself is biased in both the selection and how verdicts are reached; the second because of the first.

I don't believe that most white people are thinking "I gotta let the white guy off" or "I gotta convict the black/brown guy" (and, yes, I realize that all defendants are not men). People with different experiences see things differently and if you don't think the black experience is different than that of a white person, I have nothing to say to you. All of this adds up to unequal treatment under the law.

WRT, the Rittenhouse decision, virtually every attorney I heard said the prosecution had a difficult road in front of them; partly because of how the law was written and partly because of the facts of the case. I generally don't like to comment on specific cases because I wasn't listening to the testimony. I watched quite a bit of this trial and what I saw was someone who went looking for trouble and found it.

I see the same in the Arbery case, but those defendants are in trouble IMO.

 

[Babillygunn]

You say he has no right to 'protect' Kenosha, you may as well tell anyone who is legally allowed to own a firearm that they have no right to protect their community.

Being untrained in deescalation techniques and walking around a tense and emotional situation with an assault rifle isn’t protecting the community, it is escalating tensions and causing problems. It also isn’t helping people. It’s being a vigilante; and not a good one either.

 

[Lily Adler]

Rep. Cori Bush calls for expulsion of House Republicans who offered Kyle Rittenhouse an internship, says her job feels 'more and more dangerous' every day

 

[Protagonist]

Not built to hold supremacists accountable? This is more a response to the tweet, but wasn't Derek Chauvin found guilty? Assuming he's a supremacist at all, but he was held accountable for his actions.

Looks like short term-memory span.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Not built to hold supremacists accountable? This is more a response to the tweet, but wasn't Derek Chauvin found guilty? Assuming he's a supremacist at all, but he was held accountable for his actions.

And it was touch and go on getting that conviction despite literal footage showing a government employee cutting off the airflow to a downed person for minutes and there was no action taken THEN.

And I mean... We have a plethora of other cases where it's been rather evident that holding LEOs accountable is difficult in the extreme. This is not a case that happened that is unique unto itself.

And this didn't start last year. 16 year olds with Skittles get to play against grown men armed with guns who just don't like to see them in the neigborhood, shoot them after said teen does what anyone would when someone with zero authority attempts to stop their freedom to, uh, WALK THE **** HOME, and then is killed and the killer gets to walk away scott free.

Or we can talk about the myriad cases where there's still no accountability because, follow me here... There seems to be little accountability by choice, honestly, regardlesss of the color of the LEO's skin. The Blue trumps, no pun, everything else.

Don't talk to me about one's objection to marginal tax rates or the "tyranny" of mask mandates when in regards to Cops getting away with murder, literally, is apparently cool beans and one makes like it's no biggie in the grand scheme because you can't contemplate that the heroic sheen we've put on LEOs clouds the reality of policing in this country or that community's of color are seeing that if someone makes a claim at self defense regardless of context and circumstance, they can get away with it no matter the reckless actions that put events into motion.

Then we'll just agree to disagree, because I don't believe he should've been convicted, even if everyone in the press or those who have demonized Rittenhouse were out for blood. You say he inserted himself in a situation, yet there was no evidence shown either before or during the trial that he went out with a gun with the sole intention to kill. More so when you consider the owner of the shop Rittenhouse went to stand guard of stated he didn't want him or the others there. He was as much asking for trouble as those who were actually causing trouble and mayhem in Kenosha that night.

You say he has no right to 'protect' Kenosha, you may as well tell anyone who is legally allowed to own a firearm that they have no right to protect their community. If that's what you believe, I'm not going to try and change your mind, but obviously I disagree with that train of thought and clearly you and I are on opposite sides of this issue. That's perfectly fine.

It would seem then that it's not just Donner saying he inserted himself into a situation he had nothing to do with and not at the behest of anyone...

"More so when you consider the owner of the shop Rittenhouse went to stand guard of stated he didn't want him or the others there."

Because what you wrote and what the owner of the shop said is in no way in conflict with what those of us outraged have stated so I ask... What's your point?


"He shouldn't have been there, like the owner of the store said... I don't get why everyone is mad he was there though."

This is a big "huh?"

If anywhere in your argument is "He shouldn't have been there...." that's the end of it.

He shouldn't have been there to play militia member.

And now that he got off scott free, expect there to be more untrained and chomping at the bit to kill some dirty coloreds/Libs/Progs/Commies/BLMs/Hippies/"Demorats" and now with the cover of thinking it will provoke no meaningful legal response.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Looks like short term-memory span.

Do you even believe that somehow that one case invalidates all the other times LEOs were never called on to the carpet for their actions? How about when these cases involve LEOs that have a laundry list of priors? Not dealing with the civilian complaints before is how a cop thinks he can get away with physical abuse to the point it's allowed to escalate to murder and then they get off. Lather, rinse, repeat.

I and others can't take this response seriously because it is so bovine excrement filled in that it pretends as though history began as soon as a news story hits.

 

[Protagonist]

Being untrained in deescalation techniques and walking around a tense and emotional situation with an assault rifle isn’t protecting the community, it is escalating tensions and causing problems. It also isn’t helping people. It’s being a vigilante; and not a good one either.

There is no debate about him being in Kenosha. It was wrong for him being there, just like many other people, who had no business of being there as well.

 

[Lily Adler]

'I Am Not': Trump Lawyer Lin Wood Threatens to Sue Rittenhouse Lawyer for Calling Him 'Idiot'

 

[NotNickFury]

Being untrained in deescalation techniques and walking around a tense and emotional situation with an assault rifle isn’t protecting the community, it is escalating tensions and causing problems. It also isn’t helping people. It’s being a vigilante; and not a good one either.

If the cops aren't and weren't going to do anything, which they clearly weren't.

I mean, for all the talk of many saying they can police themselves and don't need the authorities in their communities...then when that actually comes to pass and people do police their communities when you've got folks causing a ruckus and burning in Kenosha, it's a problem. Actually, considering Rosenbaum's child molestation (can that word be said here? I'm not sure. If not, I'll remove it- charges- even though it wasn't allowed to be mentioned during the trial- it's one less problem his victims have in their lives.

 

[Donner]

If the cops aren't and weren't going to do anything, which they clearly weren't.

I mean, for all the talk of many saying they can police themselves and don't need the authorities in their communities...then when that actually comes to pass and people do police their communities when you've got folks causing a ruckus and burning in Kenosha, it's a problem. Actually, considering Rosenbaum's child molestation (can that word be said here? I'm not sure. If not, I'll remove it- charges- even though it wasn't allowed to be mentioned during the trial- it's one less problem his victims have in their lives.

You said yourself the shop owner didn't want Rittenhouse there. So he didn't go to protect his community, he went to **** people up.

And killing isn't okay just because someone has a criminal record, FYI.

 

[InCali]

Community Policing =/= a minor breaking the law to "enforce" the law. Let's stay away from the false equivalencies here.

 

[Babillygunn]

Actually, considering Rosenbaum's child molestation (can that word be said here? I'm not sure. If not, I'll remove it- charges- even though it wasn't allowed to be mentioned during the trial- it's one less problem his victims have in their lives.

So, you are in favor of a 17 year old kid killing someone who has been indicted for a heinous crime through vigilante justice?

 

[DarthSkywalker]

If the cops aren't and weren't going to do anything, which they clearly weren't.

I mean, for all the talk of many saying they can police themselves and don't need the authorities in their communities...then when that actually comes to pass and people do police their communities when you've got folks causing a ruckus and burning in Kenosha, it's a problem. Actually, considering Rosenbaum's child molestation (can that word be said here? I'm not sure. If not, I'll remove it- charges- even though it wasn't allowed to be mentioned during the trial- it's one less problem his victims have in their lives.

Wow, and I thought your admittance of breaking COVID restriction to go to the movie theater was a bad take. This was somehow worse.

Conflating a fear of police and protesting for reform do to their horrendous track record with people traveling hundreds of miles so they can get a chance to shoot someone is about as obviously crappy as it gets. Especially when it ends in murder.

 

[Sithborg]

If the cops aren't and weren't going to do anything, which they clearly weren't.

I mean, for all the talk of many saying they can police themselves and don't need the authorities in their communities...then when that actually comes to pass and people do police their communities when you've got folks causing a ruckus and burning in Kenosha, it's a problem. Actually, considering Rosenbaum's child molestation (can that word be said here? I'm not sure. If not, I'll remove it- charges- even though it wasn't allowed to be mentioned during the trial- it's one less problem his victims have in their lives.

No crime deserves summary execution from the state, much less from vigilantes. And given the unlikely hood of Rittenhouse having something to access the criminal records of those he saw that night, it really should not come into any discussion.

 

[Mani-Man]

Its the narrative the right gone with.
Rittenhouse the boy from a good family, who was just helping his community and ended up killing those evil, evil people.
The Hero of America the Liberals want to paint as a unamerican, racist monster.

What bull****.

A 17 year old boy that for some lunatic reason is allowed to walk around with an Assault Rifle, involved himself because of delusional patriotism in a Civil Unrest a incompetent Police force didnt knew how to handle.
Untrained, unexperienced...arrogantly thinking he knew what he does, ending up with dead people.
Afterwards finding out that the people he killed arent saints, doesnt change the immense danger Rittenhouse was.
A Danger, not a hero, not a patriot...he is an arrogant fool who thought it was his place to play cowboy.
Its pure luck he didnt kill "innocent", but it doesnt change the fact that nobody that day deserved to be killed.

He is the result of many problematic things in the country that are wrong imo.

 

[Babillygunn]

Its the narrative the right gone with.
Rittenhouse the boy from a good family, who was just helping his community and ended up killing those evil, evil people.
The Hero of America the Liberals want to paint as a unamerican, racist monster.

What bull****.

A 17 year old boy that for some lunatic reason is allowed to walk around with an Assault Rifle, involved himself because of delusional patriotism in a Civil Unrest a incompetent Police force didnt knew how to handle.
Untrained, unexperienced...arrogantly thinking he knew what he does, ending up with dead people.
Afterwards finding out that the people he killed arent saints, doesnt change the immense danger Rittenhouse was.
A Danger, not a hero, not a patriot...he is an arrogant fool who thought it was his place to play cowboy.
Its pure luck he didnt kill "innocent", but it doesnt change the fact that nobody that day deserved to be killed.

He is the result of many problematic things in the country that are wrong imo.

This. 100%.

Rittenhouse is exhibit A of many of our nation’s problems right now. Exhibit B would be those people who hail him as a hero. Those who want a real life Frank Castle in their community. They want him so bad that they have propped up a trigger happy kid who went into a sensitive, emotional powder keg with gasoline and a blowtorch, as their newest right wing superhero. Folks in Washington use this kid as a means to an end. And then end is to further their own interests. And the populace is buying it all hook like and sinker.

 

[Erzengel]

I think he had some sort of romanticized fantasy that he'd help keep law and order in a City being overrun by looters and protestors. In the end, he ended up in over his head, got scared and killed 2 people.

 

[Lily Adler]

 

[Lily Adler]

Oh lord Conservative twitter must be losing their collective ****.

 

[Sithborg]

One hopes, after being taken advantage of by unstable grifter Lin Wood, he has a bit more clearer view of the right wing sphere.