🌎 Discussion: Civil Rights, Affirmative Action, Critical Race Theory, Systemic Inequality, and Racism - Part 4

[Travesty]

There was a lot of stuff that went against logic. That note looked like a comical version of a ransom note that you saw in an 80s movie. The fact that it was -20F, and he was attacked for just walking around, when NOBODY was out, is a bit illogical. It was just a "coincidence" that the racist, homophobic Trump supporters found a gay black guy walking around at 2am during a Polar Vortex? His scrapes/scars didn't look all the believable, to be beaten by 2 men. He wasn't even heavily bruised or swollen, which you'll see that more than light scrapes. The so-called bleach wasn't on his clothes, even though he was bundled up from head to toe, due to the weather. Also, he lives in Chicago. There's no racist Trump supporters prowling the streets looking to jump someone. Hell, if you're a Conservative in Chicago, YOU'RE the outlier. You'll more than likely get jumped for being a Trump supporter in Chicago, not the other way around. It's the complete opposite of logic. That's why the shouting of "this is MAGA country" in Chicago was comically absurd. Maybe if it was in the back roads of Mississippi, but Chicago? lol, ok.

This all sounded like a laughable caricature of what someone thinks a Trump supporter really is. Way too contrived.

 

[terry78]

I know we're in the midwest but the Northwest Indiana/Chicago area is pretty liberal sans a few suburban rural pockets. I genuinely assumed it was some guys that weren't even from the area that had been stalking him for a minute.

 

[Holiday]

There was a lot of stuff that went against logic. That note looked like a comical version of a ransom note that you saw in an 80s movie. The fact that it was -20F, and he was attacked for just walking around, when NOBODY was out, is a bit illogical. It was just a "coincidence" that the racist, homophobic Trump supporters found a gay black guy walking around at 2am during a Polar Vortex? His scrapes/scars didn't look all the believable, to be beaten by 2 men. He wasn't even heavily bruised or swollen, which you'll see that more than light scrapes. The so-called bleach wasn't on his clothes, even though he was bundled up from head to toe, due to the weather. Also, he lives in Chicago. There's no racist Trump supporters prowling the streets looking to jump someone. Hell, if you're a Conservative in Chicago, YOU'RE the outlier. You'll more than likely get jumped for being a Trump supporter in Chicago, not the other way around. It's the complete opposite of logic. That's why the shouting of "this is MAGA country" in Chicago was comically absurd. Maybe if it was in the back roads of Mississippi, but Chicago? lol, ok.

This all sounded like a laughable caricature of what someone thinks a Trump supporter really is. Way too contrived.

Yeah, he's out in that weather with his head/face covered up presumably but was still somehow recognized from a television show that two racist homophobes wouldn't even watch. He's on the phone with his manager who overheard the attack but didnt call the police. He somehow keeps a hold of his phone and a week later it was reported he managed to keep the sandwich as well. Lol Just doesn't make sense.

 

[MaceB]

Fair enough. You're right. It sounded thin from the very beginning. I don't think I fell for anything. I was certainly skeptical as soon as more info came out. I'm happy to say, I never used this against conservatives. I wanted the situation to settle first to see what was going on.

But I'll admit I didn't doubt it when I first heard it. I didn't really look into it deeply. It wasn't one of those stories that really interested me, so I was waiting for authorities to give me the low down. Luckily they did. Like someone else said, this is an example of the system working.

 

[Aximili86]

His story was investigated and it was uncovered that he lied. That's the system working as it should.

Bingo.

Only this "the system works as it should" isn't exactly the type of line a guy like Smollett's going to push. He's one of these "the entire system's broken, start anew!" justice-isn't-even-a-thing type of guys. It's ne nice to apply a little consistency regarding the 'generally the system works' notion.

And bwaha, Dave's take there is pretty funny. Love his point about doubting the "aren't you that f****t Empire n*****" because it sounds more like something one of his comedy characters/racist impersonations would say. That was what sort of concerned me over this early on, it sounded so...not even just exaggerated, but cliche with how he described it. Like the most obvious example of a hate crime one could conjure up, between happening to be wearing MAGA hats to the language used, to happening to have rope on them for a lynching, it all kind of felt a little much. Hate crimes happen, but white guy + maga hats + bleach + rope, in a supposedly majority-black neighborhood with a major gay population? A few of those things you can buy, when it's all of it together it just feels too convenient.

Oh well. All the same the people accusing him of making it up 3 or 4 days ago, that was unwarranted. Now though, seems it's probably a matter of the other guys rolled on him when found & questioned, better being charged with conspiring to fake an assault than be charged with a real one.

 

[jolldan]

Bingo.

Only this "the system works as it should" isn't exactly the type of line a guy like Smollett's going to push. He's one of these "the entire system's broken, start anew!" justice-isn't-even-a-thing type of guys. It's ne nice to apply a little consistency regarding the 'generally the system works' notion

Im not to well versed on laws in the US but wouldn't he still be liable for some sort of punishment for falsifying a police report if proved to be complete BS?

Dude better hope nothing like this actually ever happens to him cause it will be a case of the boy who cried wolf.

 

[Aximili86]

No idea what the laws are on that stuff, but you'd figure he's opened himself up to action of some sort. Whether that's the city authorities able to sue him over intentional misleading/wasting of time or whatever, or hell, maybe ABC has some avenue at him over the interview. The latter I'm thinking probably not, it's their responsibility what they put on the air and don't, just spitballin' here.

There's probably consequences for him of some sort other than just divebombing his acting career (I'm suspicious that'll even be the case - guy'll come back in 2 or 3 years claiming it was mental illness or some breakdown over Trump being president or something, and he'll be cool again with half the country), doesn't seem too apparent yet what they'll be though.

 

[Holiday]

Oh well. All the same the people accusing him of making it up 3 or 4 days ago, that was unwarranted. Now though, seems it's probably a matter of the other guys rolled on him when found & questioned, better being charged with conspiring to fake an assault than be charged with a real one.

It wasn't unwarranted at all. People are allowed to apply common sense and reason to the news.

 

[jolldan]

No idea what the laws are on that stuff, but you'd figure he's opened himself up to action of some sort. Whether that's the city authorities able to sue him over intentional misleading/wasting of time or whatever, or hell, maybe ABC has some avenue at him over the interview. The latter I'm thinking probably not, it's their responsibility what they put on the air and don't, just spitballin' here.

There's probably consequences for him of some sort other than just divebombing his acting career (I'm suspicious that'll even be the case - guy'll come back in 2 or 3 years claiming it was mental illness or some breakdown over Trump being president or something, and he'll be cool again with half the country), doesn't seem too apparent yet what they'll be though.

Yeah true probably down to studios to proof read their stuff before putting it on air. At least people are making some funny meme's out of it now

 

[Iceman]

No idea what the laws are on that stuff, but you'd figure he's opened himself up to action of some sort. Whether that's the city authorities able to sue him over intentional misleading/wasting of time or whatever, or hell, maybe ABC has some avenue at him over the interview. The latter I'm thinking probably not, it's their responsibility what they put on the air and don't, just spitballin' here.

There's probably consequences for him of some sort other than just divebombing his acting career (I'm suspicious that'll even be the case - guy'll come back in 2 or 3 years claiming it was mental illness or some breakdown over Trump being president or something, and he'll be cool again with half the country), doesn't seem too apparent yet what they'll be though.

It’s surely got to be an outrageous intentional waste of police resources at the very least.

And he has burned his bridges with many potential fans if this turns out to be true. The half of the country thing you are referring to is a poor effort. There is no universal love for Hillary or other flawed characters by the half of the country you’re referring to. Before Trump both sides would reject the standard bearers on their own side when they crossed lines. And yes there are many on the right who can’t stand Trump. It is the extremes that are the problem, the guys on either side who have a fixed opinion that can’t change with real events and can’t take account of differing situations.

 

[Travesty]

Im not to well versed on laws in the US but wouldn't he still be liable for some sort of punishment for falsifying a police report if proved to be complete BS?

Dude better hope nothing like this actually ever happens to him cause it will be a case of the boy who cried wolf.

Ive looked into it, and he can get up to 3 years in prison, but he’s rich enough to afford good lawyers, so I doubt anything will happen, other than the money he’ll have to spend. Oh, but I do think his career is on life support, though.

 

[jolldan]

Ive looked into it, and he can get up to 3 years in prison, but he’s rich enough to afford good lawyers, so I doubt anything will happen, other than the money he’ll have to spend. Oh, but I do think his career is on life support, though.

Yeah unless they've done something really bad or its a collection of things celebs generally avoid jail.

Like you said I think his punishment will probably be the lack of calls for new gigs as I imagine many will want to distance themselves from him.

 

[Aximili86]

It’s surely got to be an outrageous intentional waste of police resources at the very least.

And he has burned his bridges with many potential fans if this turns out to be true. The half of the country thing you are referring to is a poor effort. There is no universal love for Hillary or other flawed characters by the half of the country you’re referring to. Before Trump both sides would reject the standard bearers on their own side when they crossed lines. And yes there are many on the right who can’t stand Trump. It is the extremes that are the problem, the guys on either side who have a fixed opinion that can’t change with real events and can’t take account of differing situations.

Oh, c'mon. He's a black dude in Chicago, surrounded by people of a similar take on politics in 2019. If Smollet comes out claiming he's had anxiety since he was a little kid or whatever, and it's been exacerbated by the Orange Guy in office, and he was just trying to raise awareness over racial issues, plenty of people are going to accept that. He'll have to do his time away in the naughty corner, but the "anything goes!, "this is a war over the country itself!" crowd will forgive it so long as he verbally checks those "I have issues!" boxes. He'll act again so long as he bends the knee, it'll just necessitate time away first.

No different to the *does something horrible - SAFE! REHAB!" bit Craig Ferguson does in his act. People will forgive a lot, even of people not particularly sorry about it. Just takes a conveniently-cynical "out" and time for people to move on to the next hot-button issue.

Yeah, Travesty, no way he does 3 years. And probably shouldn't, that seems excessive even if it's theoretically possible. Something like 6 months in a white-collar not-seen-as-dangerous facility would be more than enough, compounded with shaming him bigtime in the public eye. Tend to think it'll just be monetary though, if Chicago can raid his pockets and put it toward something good like hate crime counselling/assistance, whatever, that'd be enough.

 

[Schlosser85]

At least he should be disgraced and never work in Hollywood again, nor be allowed to ever hold himself up as any kind of representative for either the black or LGBT community.

 

[Holiday]

His twitter account is getting trolled hard right now. Lol He just needs to come completely clean about everything and start the apologies, to people in Chicago and the police as well as many others. Not that I think it will save his career.

I saw where Michael Cohen's lawyer dropped him.

 

[Schlosser85]

When Michael Cohen's lawyer drops you.....ouch.

 

[Travesty]

His twitter account is getting trolled hard right now. Lol He just needs to come completely clean about everything and start the apologies, to people in Chicago and the police as well as many others. Not that I think it will save his career.

I saw where Michael Cohen's lawyer dropped him.

That would be the best thing he can do, but instead, he's just making himself look worse and worse.

If you try to claim you're a victim of something, but end up needing a defense attorney, something is wrong.

 

[terry78]

This whole thing makes my head hurt.

 

[RockSP]

At least he should be disgraced and never work in Hollywood again, nor be allowed to ever hold himself up as any kind of representative for either the black or LGBT community.

He's not a huge star or box office draw so that would be the only reason that would happen. Rapists, murderers and domestic abusers work in Hollywood all the time after all.

 

[MaceB]

He's not a huge star or box office draw so that would be the only reason that would happen. Rapists, murderers and domestic abusers work in Hollywood all the time after all.

Ehh, when celebrities get bad coverage or are exposed for something reprehensible, Hollywood is not above exiling them. It's true that they ignore a lot of stuff... but once it hits the press and gains traction with the public, then they cut off the arm, tie a tourniquet, and keep moving on.

 

[Iceman]

Oh, c'mon. He's a black dude in Chicago, surrounded by people of a similar take on politics in 2019. If Smollet comes out claiming he's had anxiety since he was a little kid or whatever, and it's been exacerbated by the Orange Guy in office, and he was just trying to raise awareness over racial issues, plenty of people are going to accept that. He'll have to do his time away in the naughty corner, but the "anything goes!, "this is a war over the country itself!" crowd will forgive it so long as he verbally checks those "I have issues!" boxes. He'll act again so long as he bends the knee, it'll just necessitate time away first.

No different to the *does something horrible - SAFE! REHAB!" bit Craig Ferguson does in his act. People will forgive a lot, even of people not particularly sorry about it. Just takes a conveniently-cynical "out" and time for people to move on to the next hot-button issue.

So big city guys with similar political opinions/plenty of people rather than half the country, gotya. No point throwing around exaggerations like that just to try and lump in everyone with that kind of drone-thinking. There are guys on this very thread who have similar political opinions who have expressed their outrage at him and I guess you're calling all of them out as being robots who will change their minds if Smollet claims anxiety. For me it's clear. Setting something like this up doesn't happen by accident and takes too much premeditation and organisation to be put down to a spur of the moment emotion.

I don't know if you're understanding why this is so wrong towards the guys who you're expecting to forgive everything so easily. Noone wants people to fake serious crimes. There are people out there doing horrific things. Let's vilify those who deserve it rather than making up situations like this which will undermine those real victims. A high profile case like this causes a lot of damage to anyone else bringing forward a claim where there is little or no evidence. Imagine someone bringing an identical claim today with the circumstances totally matching (but real of course). Or imagine if he was himself assaulted for real today. Noone would believe him. We had a case recently in the UK of a high profile claim of a man beating a woman which was proven false by cameras. She has been condemned from all quarters (even after playing the anxiety card), so let's not pretend with this half the country BS.

Yeah, Travesty, no way he does 3 years. And probably shouldn't, that seems excessive even if it's theoretically possible. Something like 6 months in a white-collar not-seen-as-dangerous facility would be more than enough, compounded with shaming him bigtime in the public eye. Tend to think it'll just be monetary though, if Chicago can raid his pockets and put it toward something good like hate crime counselling/assistance, whatever, that'd be enough.

Fraudulent claims undermine the whole system for real victims, and there will be some who decide not to report when they get attacked due to things like this. He needs to see the error of his ways by coming totally clean, taking his punishment and voluntarily making a HUGE donation to a cause like you've mentioned. ​

 

[samsnee]

This thing sounded fishy to me from the very start which is why I didn't want to comment on it. The idea that a celebrity happens to get attacked in Chicago at 2 am when it's freezing out, and the perpetrators just happened to have bleach and rope on them?

Sad situation all around as this will only make true victims even more scared to come forward in the future, not that the truly racist would have believed them anyway.

 

[RockSP]

Ehh, when celebrities get bad coverage or are exposed for something reprehensible, Hollywood is not above exiling them. It's true that they ignore a lot of stuff... but once it hits the press and gains traction with the public, then they cut off the arm, tie a tourniquet, and keep moving on.

More like bandage the arm, tell the patient to get some rest, then let them return to work after said "rest" period.

 

[MaceB]

More like bandage the arm, tell the patient to get some rest, then let them return to work after said "rest" period.

Tell that to Lindsey Lohan. This guy's career is gone for the foreseeable future. The fact that he's not a gigantic movie star just makes him more expendable.

 

[RockSP]

Tell that to Lindsey Lohan.

That actress who still works to this day? Even after crazed incident after crazed incident (which is not quite the case with Smollett...that we know of)?

This guy's career is gone for the foreseeable future. The fact that he's not a gigantic movie star just makes him more expendable.

Which is what I said in the first place...