Discussion: Legalizing Marijuana II

[jaqua99]

I do have to agree with his thought though on the use of marijuana and then getting in a car, depending on how much you have smoked, etc. The drunk driving laws, I don't necessarily see them as a joke, most judges I know are extremely tough on drunk drivers who have killed someone. Where they are ridiculously stupid is when the person gets a DWI over and over again and gets off with little more than a fine. Those need to be toughened.

IMO, you need to be as tough with marijuana. That is why I would rather decriminalize it first, and move slowly towards legalizing. Colorado and Washington have already run into problems because they legalized it before they had answered all of the questions of how much is too much to drive, etc....and Colorado looks like they are going to go with a ridiculously small amount in the system before you are ticketed with driving...and so they have simply switched from putting people in jail for small amounts of marijuana on them to putting people in jail for small amounts of marijuana IN them....

Decriminalize first, research heavily on the influence on driving, and go from there....to legalization with those questions answered.

If it becomes fully legalized, I think it should still be illegal to drive stoned, and you should face criminal charges. You are technically driving under the influence. I can drive fine high, but there is a limmit. If I have to drive, I won't take more than a few puffs of anything. There are plenty of times when I'll be home, or at someone's house, and I'll think, "there is no way in hell I can drive right now"

some people smoke to get THAT high ALL the time. THAT's why it shouldn't be legal to drive high, even if it's fully legalized. But people will

 

[wiegeabo]

I say just treat it like alcohol.

And, like alcohol, there should be a level determining where you're legally drunk (stoned).

Driving at or above that level incurs the same penalites.

 

[Lantern Venom]

You have no idea what cannabis does to the brain.

There are hundreds of unique cannabis strains and they all effect people differently.

Sometimes a person will be stimulated creatively or spiritually, gain insight or self-awareness, meditate easier, or simply move outside their rigid perspective.

Sometimes it will just make sex, food, sports, tv, music, movies, nature, hiking, games, etc ten times more enjoyable.

That doesn't include the mental illness it can help like anxiety, PTSD. depression, insomnia and even psychosis.

You shouldn't dismiss a drug (at least publicly) or anything in general you haven't researched adequately.

LOL--good call.

I'm in the mental health field, and we are given new information on both prescription and recreational drugs on a constant basis. I've had access to dozens of studies and been a part of numerous MI cases where the patient was a marijuana user. So I've seen the data and the first-hand evidence.

Moreover, I've seen every single disorder/medical problem you mentioned exacerbated by marijuana and I've seen some of the synthetic versions make people suicidal. MI and recreational drug use don't mix.

It's naive to think that there aren't people who have done just as much research as you but come to different conclusions. I also think you are misunderstanding my position. I don't feel that pot should be illegal indefinitely, but I do feel that drug-related offenses aren't properly discouraged/punished. The law needs overhauling in that aspect before another legal drug is added to society.

 

[Alex_Spider]

LOL--good call.

I'm in the mental health field, and we are given new information on both prescription and recreational drugs on a constant basis. I've had access to dozens of studies and been a part of numerous MI cases where the patient was a marijuana user. So I've seen the data and the first-hand evidence.

Who conducted these studies and what was the report for the narijuana users?
You might be in the mental health field but you are still subjected to studies and directives of great corporate interests, so i am not sure how real is the information they provide you with.

Moreover, I've seen every single disorder/medical problem you mentioned exacerbated by marijuana and I've seen some of the synthetic versions make people suicidal. MI and recreational drug use don't mix.

Are you certain those disorders/medical problems are coming solely from the use of marijuana? Of course the synthetic versions do harm as much every synthetic product.

It's naive to think that there aren't people who have done just as much research as you but come to different conclusions. I also think you are misunderstanding my position. I don't feel that pot should be illegal indefinitely, but I do feel that drug-related offenses aren't properly discouraged/punished. The law needs overhauling in that aspect before another legal drug is added to society.

The point is who benefits from that research and what implications are hidden behind the scenes. It's a very complex world and often we forget that there are many strings attached in the shadows. Simply put the official medical establishment wouldn't post a study that would harm the market and the big pharma's profits.

 

[Alex_Spider]

That sort of reminds me of

[YT]sbjHOBJzhb0[/YT]

Typical American media propaganda bull. I couldn't stand watch it to the end.

 

[Kelly]

If it becomes fully legalized, I think it should still be illegal to drive stoned, and you should face criminal charges. You are technically driving under the influence. I can drive fine high, but there is a limmit. If I have to drive, I won't take more than a few puffs of anything. There are plenty of times when I'll be home, or at someone's house, and I'll think, "there is no way in hell I can drive right now"

some people smoke to get THAT high ALL the time. THAT's why it shouldn't be legal to drive high, even if it's fully legalized. But people will

I agree...but like alcohol, how much is too much? Sounds like you think any is too much, and I can respect that for sure.

How many accidents/deaths have been caused by people after smoking marijuana and driving? According to a police officer in my area, not many, and no where near the amount as those with alcohol...but I would still be interested in seeing some percentages.

 

[SV Fan]

Typical American media propaganda bull. I couldn't stand watch it to the end.

Are you kidding me the end is the funniest part........

play faster, faster!

it will make you insane!!!!!

 

[Figs]

If it becomes fully legalized, I think it should still be illegal to drive stoned, and you should face criminal charges. You are technically driving under the influence. I can drive fine high, but there is a limmit. If I have to drive, I won't take more than a few puffs of anything. There are plenty of times when I'll be home, or at someone's house, and I'll think, "there is no way in hell I can drive right now"

some people smoke to get THAT high ALL the time. THAT's why it shouldn't be legal to drive high, even if it's fully legalized. But people will

The only reason I agree with you on this is because some people can't handle their ****. Like you, most of my friends and I can driver perfectly fine when stoned. As others have said, just treat it like Alcohol when it comes to the rules.

 

[Kelly]

The only reason I agree with you on this is because some people can't handle their ****. Like you, most of my friends and I can driver perfectly fine when stoned. As others have said, just treat it like Alcohol when it comes to the rules.

How do you know you are driving perfectly fine you are STONED.....:cwink

As far as treating it like alcohol....I think there is a bigger problem there, and Washington State and Colorado are already seeing this. Colorado is about to start enforcing a very small amount in the system as being "under the influence" that I'm afraid they have simply switched one silly law for another...

That is why I would much rather, decriminalize RIGHT NOW....and research some, and then legalize later with stronger rules ready to go into place, instead of of a "hit and miss" kind of thing that Colorado and Washington State are doing...

 

[wiegeabo]

Is there an equivalent of a breathalyzer that'll work with weed?

 

[wiegeabo]

How do you know you are driving perfectly fine you are STONED.....:cwink

Gotta agree with that one. There are plenty of drunk drivers who thought they were fine to drive until and learned the hard way they weren't.

 

[Kelly]

Is there an equivalent of a breathalyzer that'll work with weed?

I honestly have no clue....absolutely no clue how they are going to do this....

I mean, damn you could just be driving kinda fast, make a wrong turn, get freaked out when you see a police car...(you know your heart skips when you see one, even when you aren't breaking any laws...) and then BAM you get stopped...they smell it on your clothes, wherever, the damn stuff gets into everything....and then they check you, you still have it in your system because that stuff stays in there for freaking EVER....your screwed for smoking some weed 3 days ago.

I worry about that kind of thing...far more than I do it impairing someone's ability to drive...

That happens, and as a teacher, I would be totally screwed...I'd get fired.

 

[Figs]

How do you know you are driving perfectly fine you are STONED.....:cwink

I know I'm driving fine because I'm in control and my judgement isn't off. If I were to get drunk...yeah, I wouldn't be driving so fine. When you're high off of marijuana it's nothing like being drunk where you lose control. If someone says they can't drive when stoned, I'm guessing they're so stoned out of their mind they're lightheaded.

 

[Lantern Venom]

I know I'm driving fine because I'm in control and my judgement isn't off. If I were to get drunk...yeah, I wouldn't be driving so fine. When you're high off of marijuana it's nothing like being drunk where you lose control. If someone says they can't drive when stoned, I'm guessing they're so stoned out of their mind they're lightheaded.

Like any drug, marijuana interacts with each individual's brain chemistry in different ways. That's why there have been over 2,000 studies on the substance without a consensus on whether it's addictive.

Two stories that stick in my mind are from Howard Stern and Richard Lewis. Stern told a story about being at a table of several people who were passing around joints. They were buzzed and laughing, so he decided to try it. He experienced vocal paralysis for several minutes, which caused him to feel panic.

Lewis said that after he tried pot, he became so paranoid (not an uncommon symptom) that he slammed on his brakes in the middle of the road to avoid running into the horizon. These are the kind of reactions that can and will lead to people getting hurt, much like with alcohol.

 

[Figs]

Like any drug, marijuana has interacts with each individual's brain chemistry in different ways. That's why there have been over 2,000 studies on the substance without a consensus on whether it's addictive.

Two stories that stick in my mind are from Howard Stern and Richard Lewis. Stern told a story about being at a table of several people who were passing around joints. They were buzzed and laughing, so he decided to try it. He experienced vocal paralysis for several minutes, which caused him to feel panic.

Lewis said that after he tried pot, he became so paranoid (not an uncommon symptom) that he slammed on his brakes in the middle of the road to avoid running into the horizon. These are the kind of reactions that can and will lead to people getting hurt, much like with alcohol.

I think they just couldn't handle their ****...then again, it was their first time.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Like any drug, marijuana has interacts with each individual's brain chemistry in different ways. That's why there have been over 2,000 studies on the substance without a consensus on whether it's addictive.

Two stories that stick in my mind are from Howard Stern and Richard Lewis. Stern told a story about being at a table of several people who were passing around joints. They were buzzed and laughing, so he decided to try it. He experienced vocal paralysis for several minutes, which caused him to feel panic.

Lewis said that after he tried pot, he became so paranoid (not an uncommon symptom) that he slammed on his brakes in the middle of the road to avoid running into the horizon. These are the kind of reactions that can and will lead to people getting hurt, much like with alcohol.

Do you realize how many people die from intoxicated driving a year from alcohol compared to cannabis?

Or how many people die from medical complications from alcohol and cigarettes compared to cannabis?

Google it...I'll wait.

 

[Alex_Spider]

Do you realize how many people die from intoxicated driving a year from alcohol compared to cannabis?

Or how many people die from medical complications from alcohol and cigarettes compared to cannabis?

Google it...I'll wait.

Nah it doesn't matter even if just one person dies from cannabis every year. It's the plant of the devil we must keep demonizing it lol

 

[Alex_Spider]

Are you kidding me the end is the funniest part........

play faster, faster!

it will make you insane!!!!!

lol Some great acting there though. It could very well be a scene of an intense thriller

 

[Lantern Venom]

Do you realize how many people die from intoxicated driving a year from alcohol compared to cannabis?

Or how many people die from medical complications from alcohol and cigarettes compared to cannabis?

Google it...I'll wait.

Studies conducted in several localities have found that approximately 4 to 14 percent of drivers who sustained injury or died in traffic accidents tested positive for delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol (THC), the active ingredient in marijuana.7

A meta-analysis of approximately 60 experimental studies—including laboratory, driving simulator, and on-road experiments—found that behavioral and cognitive skills related to driving performance were impaired in a dose-dependent fashion with increasing THC blood levels.

http://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/drugfacts/drugged-driving#references

And feel free to keep going with the old "it's safer than alcohol" argument. That's an exercise in futility. It's not an either/or problem, it's all the same problem: how does society get substance users to keep their habits to themselves?

 

[Whiskey Tango]

Marijuana Eradication By Law Enforcement Plummets Over 60 Percent

WASHINGTON -- The number of marijuana plants eradicated by law enforcement has plummeted in the last few years from a record high of over 10 million plants in 2009 and 2010 to under 4 million plants in 2012, according to newly released statistics.

From that peak of over 10 million, the Drug Enforcement Administration said the number of marijuana plants eradicated dropped to 6,735,511 in 2011 and 3,933,950 in 2012, just a fraction of the 9 million marijuana plants the DEA had hoped to destroy.

DEA officials attribute the decline in part to the state of California, declaring in the agency's 2014 budget proposal that California's financial constraints resulted in "the decreased availability of local law enforcement personnel to assist in eradication efforts."

At least one group opposed to the war on drugs cheered the new numbers.

"When the DEA cites the 'decreased availability of local law enforcement personnel to assist in eradication efforts' as a reason it's having a hard time enforcing marijuana prohibition, it validates the state-by-state strategy" put into place by drug policy reform advocates, Tom Angell, chairman of Marijuana Majority, said in an email.

"Just as states repealing their own bans on alcohol made it increasingly difficult for the federal government to enforce Prohibition in the 1930s to the point that national ban was soon repealed, each new law that removes local police from the marijuana enforcement equation hastens the day that Congress is going to have to catch up with the majority of voters that polls show support legalization."

 

[mrvlknight21]

Like any drug, marijuana has interacts with each individual's brain chemistry in different ways. That's why there have been over 2,000 studies on the substance without a consensus on whether it's addictive.

Two stories that stick in my mind are from Howard Stern and Richard Lewis. Stern told a story about being at a table of several people who were passing around joints. They were buzzed and laughing, so he decided to try it. He experienced vocal paralysis for several minutes, which caused him to feel panic.

Lewis said that after he tried pot, he became so paranoid (not an uncommon symptom) that he slammed on his brakes in the middle of the road to avoid running into the horizon. These are the kind of reactions that can and will lead to people getting hurt, much like with alcohol.

^ and that is one reason why I am a bit fearful of its legalization.

 

[wiegeabo]

I see that as punishing people for something they haven't done, or may never experience.

You can't know you'll react badly to something until you actually take the something, unless there's some kind of test for this I'm not aware of.

And even if it does badly effect a few, that's still punishing potentially millions of users (what is the estimated number) who don't have that problem.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

http://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/drugfacts/drugged-driving#references

And feel free to keep going with the old "it's safer than alcohol" argument. That's an exercise in futility. It's not an either/or problem, it's all the same problem: how does society get substance users to keep their habits to themselves?

No it's not the same problem. You are arresting cannabis users based on drunk driving casualties which are astronomical when compared to stoned driving casualties.

and you're study is meaningless. The results are extremely too broad and undefined.

Between 4-14 percent of drivers injured or killed in accident tested positive for THC?

Does that mean the only had THC in their system without any other drugs?

Did they have enough THC in their system to be stoned since THC can stay in your system for a month after the drugs mental impact goes away.

What percentage were killed and why do they combine that percentage with the percentage of injuries? That tells us nothing specific about the percentage of deadly accidents caused by cannabis.

Even if the percentage is over 10 percent of deadly accidents, which in highly unlikely, the percentage of deadly accidents caused by alcohol is 50 PERCENT.

But you don't want to make alcohol completely illegal, just weed.

That makes no sense. It's like making gum illegal because a few people choked on a gumball and allowing everyone to smoke cigarettes which kill 5 million deaths per year.

It's hypocritical and beyond stupid.

Why tolerate something far more destructive while punishing countless people for doing something relatively harmless?

Alcohol kills 75,000 people a year and you still haven't posted a reasonably accurate estimate of how many people a year die from cannabis.

 

[SV Fan]

lol Some great acting there though. It could very well be a scene of an intense thriller

I also love the scene of the girl who just jumps on the bed begging to get laid. Does whoever made that film realize that would entice people to get stoned with a girl around. lol

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

^ and that is one reason why I am a bit fearful of its legalization.

Specifically what is bad about weed effecting people in different ways?

It won't kill them like the millions who die smoking cigarettes ANNUALLY. They won't rape, fight, or speed recklessly like drunks do on alcohol every minute of every day.

So what's the problem?

Why are the problems associated with alcohol and cigarettes perfectly acceptable but cannabis strictly prohibited when it isn't anywhere nearly as destructive or dangerous to the public?

Far more lives are ruined by targeting and arresting cannabis users/growers than the actual use of the drug.

Since 1965, 21 million people have been arrested for cannabis. What did that accomplish other than separating countless children from their parents and destroying countless careers. I bet most of those who arrested and sentenced these harmless people enjoy beer and/or wine on various occasions.