Doctor Who - Not a Hugging Type of Thread

[Great Mind(s)]

So...what about Orson Pink?

 

[SpideyFan866]

So...what about Orson Pink?

Great........ Great Great Grandson of Clara and Danny from a future that never came to be.


The future is always changing, and that changed.

 

[Pink Ranger]

So...what about Orson Pink?

Well, we never really heard what Clara intended to tell the Doctor, did we? Perhaps there was a different reason she can't go on adventures anymore.

 

[Jennifer Walters]

Osgood was kind of a cheap shock tactic death that really had no merit actually happening (Please have been the Zygon Osgood) and the [BLACKOUT] Brig-Man[/BLACKOUT] just flying off leaves me worried.

But other wise it was a solid finale I thought. It was dumb senseless fun but also an emotional finale. Hopefully Clara's story is wrapping up soon I can't see how this poor woman could go through any more in her travels.

Also Moffat should probably bow out soon too. Leave the reigns to Peter, a new companion, and a new showrunner soon please.

 

[Jennifer Walters]

Also Michelle Gomez should become the new Roger Delgado. She was brilliant as The Master. The perfect mix of old school Master dangerous brilliance and New Who insane joker Master.

 

[Gold Samurai]

The Master's been dead before. He always comes back.

Like Moffat said in the extra bit. There's a bit of hand-waving at the beginning of the conversation and then it's dropped

The Doctor- How did you escape blah blah?

The Master- Oh there will be plenty of time to explain that.... Now where was I? Ah yes

*Initiates plan*

 

[Jennifer Walters]

Seriously. What actually happen to the [blackout] Brig [/blackout] after he flew off? All the other Cybermen were long gone and had burned up the atmosphere. If Moffat DARES to take that beyond that little moment he'll instantly become known as the biggest hack to every write Doctor Who.

There's somethings you just can't get away and that's one of them.

 

[Pink Ranger]

Seriously. What actually happen to the [blackout] Brig [/blackout] after he flew off? All the other Cybermen were long gone and had burned up the atmosphere. If Moffat DARES to take that beyond that little moment he'll instantly become known as the biggest hack to every write Doctor Who.

There's somethings you just can't get away and that's one of them.

He will meet up with Rusty, and they will form an adorable cybernetic pair who constantly find themselves at the centre of major galactic events. It's their lot in life.

 

[Gold Samurai]

Seriously. What actually happen to the [blackout] Brig [/blackout] after he flew off?

He went to Malibu and started building more Cybermen to store in his Hall of Armor.

 

[wobbly]

I enjoyed the finale, however as ever with Moffat questions left open within it (I'll come to them later..). Best put what follows in spoilers as it's rife with them:

Spoiler

I liked the fake out intro with Clara's 'I am the Doctor', followed by Jenna being billed first and her eyes in the titles. For a brief minute it had me wondering if they were going the full on silly buggers. Thankfully not.

On the 'rain' resurrecting the dead, I figured the controlled flowing liquid was a 'nanite' composition attaching to corpses, re-animating required tissue, and building the Cyber shells over them. The minds stored in the Gallifreyan computer thingie were then dropped into the shells.

No explanation given for why the minds would be needed (or even the bodies for that matter), so left for us to fanwank around that one (I'd go with Missy's creations being based on the same techno organic basis as prior cybermen, and they needed the existing brain patterns she'd swiped for each stiff as a basic operating system for the Cyber-men to function...or something like that).

Though I wasn't a fan of the character Osgood's death was a bit of a surprise, coming right after the Doctor gave her a subtle promise she'd be welcome to travel with him.

And Missy...OTT at times, but oddly I liked her in spite of that (and the Master being OTT, singing & dancing about and so on, was something I didn't care for much with Simms' version, but it just seemed to fit better with Missy somehow).

Cyber-Danny's dig at the Doctor after his speech, exposing his hypocrisy somewhat, was a nice touch, as was the Doctor's 'I'm just an idiot in a box, passing though, helping out' revelation in response to it all.

Did Cyber-Brigadier kill Missy? Well, he tried to that's for sure. She could have teleported out just at the moment his blast hit though (think the effect was similar to when she ported out from the plane). I wouldn't think she is done with in any event as they never explained how she got away from Gallifrey.

And the ending, with both Clara and the Doctor lying to each other so they could both (try to) move on.

So the questions..Where is Gallifrey? Well, I think the Doctor may have missed the huge clue Missy gave him: She said it was in a different dimension, but not lost. So the co-ordinates she gave him could well be correct, but he simply couldn't detect or see his homeworld as it's still locked in another dimension. Another reason to assume Missy will return as she is the only Timelord to have found their way back.

And what about the future Orson Pink? How is he related to Danny, or Clara as the case may be? Since we know Danny could have come back from wherever he was, but chose to send the boy he'd killed in Iraq instead, the door is still ajar for his return.

Lastly, was that Simon Pegg as one of Nick Frosts (Santa's ) elves in the xmas promo?

 

[wobbly]

Seriously. What actually happen to the [blackout] Brig [/blackout] after he flew off? All the other Cybermen were long gone and had burned up the atmosphere. If Moffat DARES to take that beyond that little moment he'll instantly become known as the biggest hack to every write Doctor Who.

There's somethings you just can't get away and that's one of them.

They didn't show it but I'd assume he blew himself up like the others. Least that's where I'd hope they leave it.

 

[TheComicbookKid]

I wanted to see the Master f--k with the Doctor about Gallifrey but that was probably the most heartbreaking part of the episode. Seeing him smash up the console after choosing to believe his old friend wasn't lying.

 

[wobbly]

Well, we never really heard what Clara intended to tell the Doctor, did we? Perhaps there was a different reason she can't go on adventures anymore.

Had not thought of that. Could be the Xmas one would be her last hurrah if Clara is preggers.

 

[Jennifer Walters]

Remember when companions left just because they didn't feel like traveling anymore? Remember that? I mean without any other precursory b.s. The closest we've had to that in the New Series was Martha. And even she has the fact that the Doctor was a complete jerk to her because he was hung up on Rose and the fact her family was held hostage for a whole year by The Master.

Everything is pain and doom and gloom when a companion says goodbye in the new stuff.

So Clara being pregnant by her dead boyfriend and having to stop traveling to be a single mother sounds about right to go with being trapped in alternate universes, losing all your memories of The Doctor, being time displaced with your husband and fellow companion and then dying but never seeing your best friend again.

Still it would just be nice to someone to go. ''Well, it was fun, but I think after the fifteenth time battling the Daleks/Cyberman/The Master, Doctor? It's time to bow out." for once.

 

[RetroNaz]

Really enjoyed this ending, for a season that had many ups and downs.

Personally, I haven't really taken to Capaldi's Doctor like some in here, and in some ways have found his interpretation to be a little hollow. Not a slight on Capaldi, but more, the writing wasn't quite sure what kind of Doctor they wanted him to be.

I'm still in love with Matt's introduction and entire first season - and even though I've been a life long fan, felt he was actually my Doctor.

I hope the next season continues to push the boundaries, without the expense of sacrificing the mainstream audience. Love them or hate them, it's the fact that they're watching which allows BBC to put the money and quality into the show that makes it so special.

I'm concerned Capaldi's take is a little tough to connect with - nothing to do with his age.

 

[Jennifer Walters]

Oddly enough? I wasn't big on Twelve most of the season, he towed a line with me the entire time, and not because of Capaldi's acting, but the character himself was just...as you said tough to connect with.

I really enjoyed him in this two part finale though.

 

[RetroNaz]

Agreed. I hope to see more of the traits that are more familiar with the character shine through to help us reconnect with him.

 

[Upset Spideyfan]

That was a pretty darned good finale, the best one since the Pandorica Opens and the best Master episode of New Who by far.

The scene where the Doctor goes to the coordinates and finds nothing and flies into a rage was particularly amazing and if that is Clara's goodbye than it was a pretty darned good one.

And bring back Gomez, she was fantastic.

 

[haephestus]

So very confused! But, mostly entertained.

So, the Master has a TARDIS. The Master uses her TARDIS to travel to different points of time in Earth's history to establish the idea of an afterlife (and presumably the accompanying religions). Although Part 1 of the Master's plan requires humans to bury their dead (instead of cremating them), the Master doesn't introduce the idea of the dead "feeling" their bodies until early in the 21st century.

Part 1 of the Master's plan seems to basically involve using magic rain to create cybershells for skeletons. And also using a Gallifreyan super-computer to take digital copies of the brainwaves/personalities of dead bodies (somehow ... magically). The faux afterlife then convinces every single digital "soul" to agree to wipe their emotions so that they can be downloaded into a cyber body as a soldier.

Part 2 of the the Master's plan then involves using a variant of the magic rain to create cybermen from all living humans. Or this was simply a ruse by The Master to get the Doctor's attention (again)? I don't understand why the Master couldn't have simply proceeded with Part 2 of the plan as Part 1 really didn't seem necessary. Unless, the "whole" plan was simply Part 1 and equipping the Doctor with a cyber army in the hopes that the Doctor would agree that he and the Master are more alike than the Doctor wants to admit. I guess the Master believed that the Doctor would never lead an army of recently deceased humans turned into cyber soldiers, but if they were just a bunch of skeletons (and a few thousand rotting corpses), then he wouldn't mind as much?

And cyber-Dan and cyber-Brig were the only two humans who could overcome their cyber programming? Even though Danny's love for Clara was a pretty crucial part of the Doctor's final solution to the second evil cloud of magic rain?

Or were there some other former companions (e.g. Amy and Rory Pond) engaging in cyber vs. cyber battles in New York and other cities around the world?

And magic Gallifreyan computer plus a magic bracelet = resurrected little boy (but not resurrected, possibly baby-daddy Danny Pink)? Even though the boy's body was long gone and the boy's soul, if the idea of a soul simply wasn't a construct of the Master's influence on human thinking, would also presumably be long gone. Or the soul has only ever been the digital copy of people's brain waves/personalities/behaviours which were being stored in the Gallifreyan computer?

I kind of hope that they don't undo the "sad" ending. Not every companion should have a happy ending (or near happy ending). Clara got to go on some great adventures, but she paid a heavy price for that adventuring. And she has to live with the fact that her actions contributed to the future which she saw with Orson Pink never happening (unless, as heavily speculated, she is pregnant and that was the reason for the call to Danny which caused his death).

And I hope that the Missy version of the Doctor isn't gone forever. I was really open to the idea of a season of the Doctor and the Master in an uneasy alliance travelling throughout time and space looking for Gallifrey. Of course, the Master would betray the Doctor as soon as they found Gallifrey, but just imagine all the fun adventures that they would have in the interim!

 

[Upset Spideyfan]

I really loved she couldn't resist lying about Gallifrey. Its such a treacherous bit of lying, Moffat writes a seriously good Master.

Also Cyber Brig saving Kate and "killing" the Master was awesome and boo on anyone who says otherwise!

 

[RetroNaz]

Cyber Brig was fantastic, IMO. Genuine emotional point in the show, and series.

Moffat is clearly a real fan of that character.

 

[Jason Kane]

I really loved she couldn't resist lying about Gallifrey. Its such a treacherous bit of lying, Moffat writes a seriously good Master.

Also Cyber Brig saving Kate and "killing" the Master was awesome and boo on anyone who says otherwise!

Cyber Brig was fantastic, IMO. Genuine emotional point in the show, and series.

Moffat is clearly a real fan of that character.

 

[Silvermoth]

I loved that brig scene but I thought overall the episode didn't pay off. I mean the new master was set up so wonderfully but she could almost have been removed from the script without their being much of a change.

I hope she comes back as soon as possible, if not sooner

 

[COMPO]

I was a little gutted that we never saw Missy's TARDIS, or was the Nephersphere that?

 

[TheComicbookKid]

Part 2 of the the Master's plan then involves using a variant of the magic rain to create cybermen from all living humans. Or this was simply a ruse by The Master to get the Doctor's attention (again)? I don't understand why the Master couldn't have simply proceeded with Part 2 of the plan as Part 1 really didn't seem necessary. Unless, the "whole" plan was simply Part 1 and equipping the Doctor with a cyber army in the hopes that the Doctor would agree that he and the Master are more alike than the Doctor wants to admit. I guess the Master believed that the Doctor would never lead an army of recently deceased humans turned into cyber soldiers, but if they were just a bunch of skeletons (and a few thousand rotting corpses), then he wouldn't mind as much?

I might have to watch that again. I thought the master wanted the Doctor to admit that they both are callous about human lives. The Doctor wants to stop the Daleks or any other threat then make more Cybermen from the population of Earth.

The Doctor has shown he will let others die to complete his mission. He just never goes as far as murdering people like the Master.

And cyber-Dan and cyber-Brig were the only two humans who could overcome their cyber programming? Even though Danny's love for Clara was a pretty crucial part of the Doctor's final solution to the second evil cloud of magic rain?

Or were there some other former companions (e.g. Amy and Rory Pond) engaging in cyber vs. cyber battles in New York and other cities around the world?

One, no matter how much rain the Master uses, you aren't bringing every person back. Some bodies would have just turned to dust anyways. So I doubt Amy and Rory even have bodies.

I mean, of course not every companion was in this one graveyard. Plus, I figured the idea was that the Brig and Danny didn't give up their emotions in the Nethersphere.