Does Marvel have a problem with their villains?

[Mjölnir]

Apocalypse certainly isn't as bad as the other ones on that list, but I included him because I honestly think he's on the same level as the MCU's worst villains. If people bring up Malekith as an example of a poorly handled villain (which I won't defend too vehemently, I didn't dislike him but he was sorely under-utilized), I think Apocalypse should be in that same conversation. I'm going to back and edit that post though because you're right, on the list of truly awful villains, I don't believe Apocalypse fits.
I also only included movies from the past few years, but yes, DeadpoolINO would be right at home on that list.

For me the crime with Apocalypse was worse than Malekith, at least what we ended up with.

Malekith was cut out too much so his backstory wasn't there to support the character, and he was made into a looming threat more than really being active in the story. Eccleston imo did nail the acting though, in the sense of that his presence and voice was on point.

Apocalypse got all the time he needed, but for me he's one of the most boring villains I've seen. He didn't get many interesting things to say, he felt off when he said things (voice and intonation), he didn't look good and had powers that just felt weird instead of cool. Many of his scenes were so boring that I got taken out of the movie by wondering how much time that was left of the movie.

I think Malekith's issue is that he didn't bring enough things to elevate the movie, while Apocalypse instead actively drags the movie down. Apocalypse is more ambitious than some but ends up ultimately worse than all the MCU villains for me.

 

[TeeKay]

Malekith was more intimidating and you could feel his presence especially when he attacked Asgard. His costume and make up were spot on and added to the overall presence of the character. I could not take Apocalypse seriously. Awful costume design and wasted Oscar Issac. When he said "Leaaaaarrrrnniiiinng" I was lol'ing hard.

 

[Zant]

Thor's mum owned Malekith in a fight. Very intimidating indeed. I agree Oscar was kinda wasted but so was Chris, on another level.

 

[Flint Marko]

Agreed, Teekay and Mjolnir. Malekith gets points off for what he wasnt able to do in the movie, while Apocalyspe gets points off for what he was able to do. Not to mention that Malekith didn't look or sound like a power ranger villain.

 

[Web-Head]

I still liked X-men Apocalypse but I agree that Apocalypse himself was boring. I don't think it's just Marvel Studios that has problems with the villains. I mean, Magneto is the villain in just about every X-men movie...Not to mention Lex Luthor in BvS was soo bad

 

[MadVillainy]

I said in another thread everyone has a problem with their villains it's not just Marvel or even superhero movies

 

[NotNickFury]

But the question here is about Marvel specifically, and a common theme with many of the MCU films is that their villains aren't very memorable. More often than not, they're right. Yes, the same applies to other studios, but this was asked about Marvel.

 

[MadVillainy]

OK... I didn't say it wasn't asked on Marvel. I see the thread title. I said they all do which still answers the thread question while adding a new angle on the convo

 

[Web-Head]

But the question here is about Marvel specifically, and a common theme with many of the MCU films is that their villains aren't very memorable. More often than not, they're right. Yes, the same applies to other studios, but this was asked about Marvel.

Yeah, but if we're asking if Marvel has a problem it's easy to see that it's not just them.

 

[Shikamaru]

DC didn't really have a villain problem pre-MoS when you think about it. All of their successful films - the first two Donner films, the Burton films which arguably had a hero problem instead, MOTP, the Nolan films - all had at least one memorable villain.

The only DC films that were exceptions were for the most part the bad ones. Whereas Marvel made plenty of good films that have lackluster villains. That's the difference.

 

[Loki882]

And again, Marvel gets more flak for this BECAUSE they do so much else right. So when people keep finding a lot of their villains underwhelming, it tends to stick out more. It's like "you do so much else well, so why can't you get this right?"

 

[Victarion]

Lex had a pretty good bodycount and the daddy is God/daddy beat me thing that made him interesting. I don't think Marvel has a problem per say - you have the fan-favorite Loki, and I really loved what they did with the Mandarin in Iron-Man 3. They can do good villains - I think maybe they're afraid of going too far where writing a villain that is actually a villain is concerned, thus alienating a large portion of their online fanbase.

Money talks - its a valid concern on Marvel's behalf, assuming it is actually a concern. Again, its just my theory based on my interaction with Marvel fans online, away from the Hype. I'm just hoping that, with Mads in Dr Strange, Marvel stops pulling its punches where villains are concerned and gives us a really evil son of a *****.

 

[NotNickFury]

On a somewhat unrelated note, I think some of the henchmen in Marvel Studios or second-tier antagonists sometimes stand out more. Like I remember much more about Arnim Zola or Justin Hammer, for example, than I would Red Skull or Ivan Vanko.

 

[Web-Head]

DC didn't really have a villain problem pre-MoS when you think about it. All of their successful films - the first two Donner films, the Burton films which arguably had a hero problem instead, MOTP, the Nolan films - all had at least one memorable villain.

The only DC films that were exceptions were for the most part the bad ones. Whereas Marvel made plenty of good films that have lackluster villains. That's the difference.

Sony too. Goblin and Doc Ock were great. Sandman and Lizard were alright too. But I agree that since Marvel seems to do everything else well, the villains stand out. I liked Zemo and I hope phase 3 is when the villains finally become a little more interesting.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Thor's mum owned Malekith in a fight. Very intimidating indeed. I agree Oscar was kinda wasted but so was Chris, on another level.

This, so much this, Malekith wasn't intimidating in the slightest. Apocalypse was 100 times more intimidating in the nuke scene alone than Malekith was the entire movie. Including having to be saved from Thor's mum by Kurse.

 

[Spiderine]

My biggest problem with Malekith was when he actually got a major power upgrade from the aether. He turns around and just walks off instead of destroying Thor right there on the spot. He did nothing worthwhile when having an infinity stone in his possession and was still getting his arse whupped.

But then again.......I really didn't expect much from a villain like Malekith anyways. So it wasn't too much a let down. They better really make a hell of a show when Thanos gets all six of these stones.

 

[First Avenger]

And again, Marvel gets more flak for this BECAUSE they do so much else right. So when people keep finding a lot of their villains underwhelming, it tends to stick out more. It's like "you do so much else well, so why can't you get this right?"

This,so much this.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

My biggest problem with Malekith was when he actually got a major power upgrade from the aether. He turns around and just walks off instead of destroying Thor right there on the spot. He did nothing worthwhile when having an infinity stone in his possession and was still getting his arse whupped.

But then again.......I really didn't expect much from a villain like Malekith anyways. So it wasn't too much a let down. They better really make a hell of a show when Thanos gets all six of these stones.

Exactly, even with an infinity stone in his possession he come across as a threat, Thor was openly mocking him during the fight. I can't agree with anyone who says Malekith was intimidating, he wasn't in the slightest. He is a really, really poor villain all around. Which is a shame, as they got a great actor to play him.

 

[Loki882]

Also that final battle between him and Thor seemed pretty evenly-matched for most of it to me. For a guy who had the power of an Infinity Stone, it wasn't like Malekith was dominating the whole time.

Also one example of his underwhelmingness that stands out to me is this. He takes one of those black hole grenades and uses it to destroy Odin's throne. He's destroying the symbol of power of his ancient enemy. And then, he just keeps walking. No gloating, no standing for a few seconds to watch it happen, no nothing. He just walks away like nothing happen, which makes him taking the time to do that at all even weirder.

Also getting half of his face burned to a crisp also doesn't seem to effect his personality at all, I don't even know if he noticed it at all given his utter lack of a reaction.

 

[Darth_Spock]

Thor's mum owned Malekith in a fight. Very intimidating indeed. I agree Oscar was kinda wasted but so was Chris, on another level.

Freyja Freyrdottir is the Queen of Asgard, she can wield magic, is a former warrior and falls in the 20 ton range as far as strength. So this isn't Aunt May we're talking about here.

 

[Victarion]

^I'm gonna need to see her do some damage with that before I take her seriously.

That's what I wanted from Ronan. I would've loved to see him come close to actually killing Thanos with his gem.

 

[Doctor Octopus]

Freyja Freyrdottir is the Queen of Asgard, she can wield magic, is a former warrior and falls in the 20 ton range as far as strength. So this isn't Aunt May we're talking about here.

lol agreed. She is a very powerful being of Asgard.

 

[TeeKay]

I believed it when Malekith got his ass kicked my the Queen of Asgard. Shes the queen, the wife of Odin. How could she not know how to fight. Come on people.

And Thor is always mocking villains. It's within his character trait. He has done it in all the films he's been this far. He's a cocky character. Not sure how this somehow makes his villains look weak just because he mocks them.

 

[Mjölnir]

Freyja Freyrdottir is the Queen of Asgard, she can wield magic, is a former warrior and falls in the 20 ton range as far as strength. So this isn't Aunt May we're talking about here.

Exactly. Seeing people dismissing her as just "Thor's mum" is really surprising on a board like this, regardless of opinion about Malekith.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Also that final battle between him and Thor seemed pretty evenly-matched for most of it to me. For a guy who had the power of an Infinity Stone, it wasn't like Malekith was dominating the whole time.

Also one example of his underwhelmingness that stands out to me is this. He takes one of those black hole grenades and uses it to destroy Odin's throne. He's destroying the symbol of power of his ancient enemy. And then, he just keeps walking. No gloating, no standing for a few seconds to watch it happen, no nothing. He just walks away like nothing happen, which makes him taking the time to do that at all even weirder.

Also getting half of his face burned to a crisp also doesn't seem to effect his personality at all, I don't even know if he noticed it at all given his utter lack of a reaction.

Exactly, he wasn't intimidating at all, he was a joke of a villain.

I believed it when Malekith got his ass kicked my the Queen of Asgard. Shes the queen, the wife of Odin. How could she not know how to fight. Come on people.

And Thor is always mocking villains. It's within his character trait. He has done it in all the films he's been this far. He's a cocky character. Not sure how this somehow makes his villains look weak just because he mocks them.

Her being able to fight was not a problem, as you say she should be tough, but completely own the villain, was a poor choice. Her fighting him to a draw before Kurse intervened would have been much better. As the scene is, it just makes Malekith all the less threatening and effective as a villain. He wasn't even intimidating with an infinity stone in his possession. So I literally couldn't disagree more that he was more intimidating than Apocalypse.