The Amazing Spider-Man 2 Does this movie really deserve the hate it gets?

Gwen's death would have been much more effective if it wasn't for the :

A) All the marketing material that literally pointed over to her death
B) Constant "hey Gwen will die" bashing over the head
C) Web....hand
D) Slo Mo


Seriously. Wanna make the death of a character feel like a punch in the nuts? Do what Nolan did. Quick, and precise.

Lol Gwen might as well have been singing "I like being alive" during her graduation speech. Right then her fate was very obvious.

I felt no emotion when she died. It didn't have the kick I was expecting the death of Gwen Stacy to have. It felt all too staged like the movie had been building to it.
 
That's not the same. For a start Connors knew he was The Lizard, and continued to do what he was doing anyway. Peter also tried to warn Captain Stacey that Connors was The Lizard and he didn't believe him. That's twice in this franchise that Peter tried to convince a Stacey of imminent danger, and they ignore his warnings.

It's not even comparable to the comic book situation.

Only reason he continued being the lizard was because of the side effects.

George just came to the crime scene of the high school and was too busy chasing spiderman while he thought his swat team can easily take down a giant lizard with bullets.

Also let's not forget that because of Peter Connor's life was ruined.

Speaking of which I wish he came back in the next movie probably being involved with the six and be in the third movie. I felt that his importance was missing in the movie because let's face it, Peter owed him a visit for ruining his life.
 
Yeah but not everything that comes from the comics should had been portrayed as well.

I'm not asking for "everything" just the important stuff.

Doing that instantly death would be so messed up,like with TDK Rachel's death,it was so quick that I didn't even had the time to care about it and when it's about such important character to the franchise Gwen's death was pretty much well handled and is hard to picture someone that doesn't give a damn about it besides Levi.

You care about the death in the aftermath of it. When the character has died that's when the audience cares. That should be obvious.

I don't know why it's hard to imagine anyone disliking it or not being wowed by it. It was predictable, dragged out, and Garfield crying over her body after didn't save it.

I meant that the Slow mo was their goodbye since after that her death was straight on,that's why quick snap whatever people call would be messed up,I would had completely hated,it just brought even more desperation,it was quick and effective,didn't needed the head hitting the floor though.

No the slow mo was not their goodbye since Peter was trying to save her not say goodbye to her. The slow mo was them dragging out the scene for tension purposes to try and make it last as long as they could milk it.

The fault is shared between them both,Peter for not letting her go which would had saved her and Gwen from like you said being stubborn, it's 50/50 and on the context of their relationship on the franchise it worked well.

I'm sorry but that is just totally untrue. Peter is not to blame whatsoever for her death. Stopping her from leaving is not what killed her. She would have been just fine if she listened to him and stayed away from the danger of the super villain who was powerful enough to short circuit the whole city. That's common sense.

That's what killed her. It was her fault because she was.....wait for it.....there by her own choice. Her decision. Gwen's words. Can't argue with them.

And it was her choice,the choice that helped defeat Electro but resulted on her death,she knew the risks.

If she knew the risks then she only has herself to blame for being killed.

It's even a odd topic to discuss since it's what most people praised.

Nothing is above criticism, mate.
 
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You had to.....

Gwen's death was wayyyy handled better than Rachel's,just do some surveying.


hE92497A9
 
Speaking of which I wish he came back in the next movie probably being involved with the six and be in the third movie. I felt that his importance was missing in the movie because let's face it, Peter owed him a visit for ruining his life.

That could work.

Plus, wasn't Connors upset with Richard in TASM1? That could be a little added motivation.
 
Lol Gwen might as well have been singing "I like being alive" during her graduation speech. Right then her fate was very obvious.

I felt no emotion when she died. It didn't have the kick I was expecting the death of Gwen Stacy to have. It felt all too staged like the movie had been building to it.

Yep. Then there was the continuous freakin' use of the word "Time"


Like

We get it

Just stop Webb/Sony
 
Only reason he continued being the lizard was because of the side effects.

How is that Peter's fault? He didn't tell Connors to inject himself with it. It wasn't even supposed to be tested on humans. It was strictly at animal testing phase. Even Connors didn't want to test it on humans because it was too risky. Ratha fired Connors and decides to test Connors' serum at a VA hospital under the guise of a flu shot. In an act of desperation, Connors tries the formula on himself.

Ratha and Connors are to blame more than Peter. Connors knew it was dangerous but he did it anyway. And he did it because of Ratha.

George just came to the crime scene of the high school and was too busy chasing spiderman while he thought his swat team can easily take down a giant lizard with bullets.

Yeah....and?

Also let's not forget that because of Peter Connor's life was ruined.

No Connors did that by using an untested formula he himself believed was too dangerous for human testing on himself.
 
You ever get the vibe that most of the problems TASM2 had are only viewed by hardcore comic nerds like us? Almost everyone I know in real life either really enjoyed the film or was mostly indifferent to it. I know maybe two or three people who genuinely disliked it, and, even then, it's more "not a fan" than "kill it with fire."

Just rewatched the film, after months of hearing all the hate loaded on it. I get why it's hated, but I still can't agree with it. The film had me from start to finish, invested in the conflicts and characters and all that good stuff.

Now, one thing I noticed this time through was a bit of the thematic transitions between scenes. A lot of people on here act as though the several plots are only linked superficially. Electro and Harry meet up because the plot says so, or what have you. But the scenes overlap a lot more. To use a few examples...

- Aunt May's speech scene leads into the Harry Osborn being rejected by Spider-Man scene. The two scenes, in theory, are very different, but then you take into account, in essence, what each scene is about. Aunt May tells Peter about how his father was branded a traitor, which throws his entire world view to this point in jeopardy. On the other hand, Harry is let down by Spider-Man. Both scenes share the same thematic sense of betrayal.
- Harry breaking Electro out of prison is overlapped with Peter listening to his father's last recording. Both feature characters being screwed over by Oscorp trying to take circumstances into their own hands, in a sense.

That's a couple. There are more, but I'd need to more thoroughly analyze the film to better articulate the links. Now, are these strong links? Not really, but there are thematic links connecting the various scenes together as stand alone scenes. The overall plots are still not quite as well threaded together as they could be, but individual scenes link into one another well enough to not ruin the pace of the movie.

Another huge complaint is the tone, which, admittedly, is all over the place. One can argue they didn't know what kind of film they wanted to make, or were just sloppy with the writing, or something else. Now, when taken as a whole, the awkward tone shifts are apparent, but, when taken along the course of the film, I didn't feel the shifts were all too jarring...except when we cut to Electro.

Electro's scenes, throughout the whole film, felt like they belonged to a different movie. Even the Rhino's bits weren't so bad, considering that, at the time of the movie when the Rhino showed his mug, more light-hearted moments were necessary. However, Electro pops up at moments where it's rather...weird. The majority of the film focuses on Oscorp as the bad guy, so Electro feels very separate from the rest of the movie. His characterization makes sense to me, but, for me, it's his dialogue that feels the most awkwardly rushed. He talks like a total nerd while Max Dillon, but, when he's Electro, he goes full-blown badass. While I can believe that he'd see himself more as a god, language patterns don't change that rapidly, especially overnight.

That said...there's nothing truly bad about the movie. Cheesy? Yeah, but that's part of why I love Spider-Man. He's corny. He's fun. He's a superhero. His stories, while they can be dark, are gloriously silly and fun.

While the numerous plots sometimes are a little rough, not all of them are bad. The Peter/Gwen arc is awesome, and Harry's storyline throughout the film is actually pretty compelling. A lot of people keep arguing that Harry's arc was rushed, and maybe it could have been paced better, embellished more, but it isn't rushed. It's clear from Harry's first scene that he's vindictive, used to being betrayed, and has a dark side. It's also clear throughout that Harry and Peter used to be super close, but are awkwardly trying to get closer again. This is not James Franco and Tobey Macquire, where they were best friends since childhood. It doesn't need three films to gradually build the rivalry between these two characters. The circumstances are different, which, considering the biggest criticism against TASM is that it was too similar to the Raimi films, is refreshing.

If Electro was not in the movie, it would have been better.

But, again, to each their own.
 
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That could work.

Plus, wasn't Connors upset with Richard in TASM1? That could be a little added motivation.

Oh yeah that too. Infant if he dies become the lizard again in sinister six, the amazing spiderman 3 or TASM 4 he might go reach his breaking point and I hope we see him evolve into a real monster both physically and mentally. I want him to act just like an animal once he evolves.
 
I was about to leave but Joker had to reply on the exact time :dry: here we go.


Saving of what? Being bad? If so we should just stop here because that isn't even debatable.

No the slow mo was not their goodbye since Peter was trying to save her not say goodbye to her. The slow mo was them dragging out the scene for tension purposes to try and make it last as long as they could milk it.

That was the way how I interpreted,even if the slow mo was out the "fight" still created the tension before that so I don't think it was to create even more tension since it's a sad and calm pre death (Wtf..)


I'm sorry but that is just totally untrue. Peter is not to blame whatsoever for her death. Stopping her from leaving is not what killed her. She would have been just fine if she listened to him and stayed away from the danger of the super villain who was powerful enough to short circuit the whole city. That's common sense.

That's what killed her. It was her fault because she was.....wait for it.....there by her own choice. Her decision. Gwen's words. Can't argue with them.

It was her choice and Peters too.

I deeply disagree with this but breaking the promise didn't got Gwen killed? That might be Peters and is for some people Peter's fault.

Gwen knew the risks of dating the guy who is Spider-Man but she continued it anyway,no matter how it happened it would still be her fault.

Yeah Joker...you are not an easy one :dry:
 
Oh yeah that too. Infant if he dies become the lizard again in sinister six, the amazing spiderman 3 or TASM 4 he might go reach his breaking point and I hope we see him evolve into a real monster both physically and mentally. I want him to act just like an animal once he evolves.

I hope they reuse more villains in this series. If they show him descending into his animal mindset, it would be terrifying. Imagine if they did that storyline where he eats his kid? I mean, they cut his kid from the movie, so i wonder how faithfully they'd translate it, but still, something twisted like that would be horrifying.
 
Sorry but that's the truth.

Don't blame me :o

Rachel's death was entirely devoid of emotion. I love TDK trilogy, but they are cold films. They aren't tear-jerkers filled with warm characters you fall in love with. Webb's style is vastly different than Nolan's, which works for both directors I feel.

When Rachel died, no one in the theater cared. Gwen's death? The entire theater was struck by it.
 
I was about to leave but Joker had to reply on the exact time :dry: here we go.

I have a magnetic personality :cwink:

Saving of what? Being bad? If so we should just stop here because that isn't even debatable.

I'm not sure what in my post you're responding to here...

That was the way how I interpreted,even if the slow mo was out the "fight" still created the tension before that so I don't think it was to create even more tension since it's a sad and calm pre death (Wtf..)

I don't see how you could have interpreted it that way unless both characters knew she was going to die and that look as they were falling was them saying goodbye. But Peter thought he could save her.

It was her choice and Peters too.

No, it was hers. Peter's choice was for her not to be there. Gwen ignored it. Ergo the choice was hers.

I deeply disagree with this but breaking the promise didn't got Gwen killed? That might be Peters and is for some people Peter's fault.

No it didn't, because again that isn't what killed her. Again the movie dialogue spells it out for you; them being together was their decision not Gwen's father's. And them being together is not what killed her. She would have been fine if she just listened to Peter and did the sensible thing and did not accost a super villain.

Gwen knew the risks of dating the guy who is Spider-Man but she continued it anyway,no matter how it happened it would still be her fault.

Going into super villain battles of your own free will is not part of dating Spider-Man. Hence why Peter tried to stop her.

Yeah Joker...you are not an easy one

If the Joker was easy he would not be Batman's greatest villain :hoboj: ;)
 
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Rachel's death was entirely devoid of emotion. I love TDK trilogy, but they are cold films. They aren't tear-jerkers filled with warm characters you fall in love with. Webb's style is vastly different than Nolan's, which works for both directors I feel.

When Rachel died, no one in the theater cared. Gwen's death? The entire theater was struck by it.

In a nutshell :up:

Nolan did good with Batman's style,there's no denying but about the characters Marc completely nailed with compelling character that you could care about it.

That last sentence summed everything.

Gwen death had a lot more impact than Rachel's one by a miles of distance.
 
Da Games Elite, you're going to get in trouble for comparing Raimi's Spider-Man with Webb's. It is against the rules here. You should edit your post before one of the moderators sees it.

Sorry but that's the truth.

Don't blame me :o

It's not the truth. I liked Rachel's death more than Gwen's. I don't think any of the death scenes in the TASM movies have been done well. Most comic book movies beat them at doing emotion with characters.
 
Rachel's death was entirely devoid of emotion. I love TDK trilogy, but they are cold films. They aren't tear-jerkers filled with warm characters you fall in love with. Webb's style is vastly different than Nolan's, which works for both directors I feel.

When Rachel died, no one in the theater cared. Gwen's death? The entire theater was struck by it.

I could not disagree more. Bruce, Alfred, Gordon etc are warmer than every character in the TASM franchise. Only Gwen could be comparable to them.

The aftermath of Rachel's death has more emotion and drama than watching Peter sulk for months in a montage of clips. When Alfred told Bruce about Rachel's letter in TDKR, that scene alone had more emotion, and better acting than both TASM movies combined. And that's just one of many examples.

I don't want to turn this into a Batman thread, but I had to address that opinion you made.
 
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Da Games Elite, you're going to get in trouble for comparing Raimi's Spider-Man with Webb's. It is against the rules here. You should edit your post before one of the moderators sees it.



It's not the truth. I liked Rachel's death more than Gwen's. I don't think any of the death scenes in the TASM movies have been done well. Most comic book movies beat them at doing emotion with characters.
Thanks for the heads up. xD Editing now.

The Joker said:
I could not disagree more. Bruce, Alfred, Gordon etc are warmer than every character in the TASM franchise. Only Gwen could be comparable to them.

The aftermath of Rachel's death has more emotion and drama than watching Peter sulk for months in a montage of clips. When Alfred told Bruce about Rachel's letter in TDKR, that scene alone had more emotion, and better acting than both TASM movies combined. And that's just one of many examples.

I don't want to turn this into a Batman thread, but I had to address that outrageous opinion you made.

Eh, I dunno. I think Nolan in general is a very cold director. Mind you, not criticizing his films for this. I feel it works with him, but I always felt, with a lot of his films, that the characters are gears in a machine. Not arguing that the acting was bad, but the way those scenes were edited and shot just felt too...distant.
 
I'm not sure what in my post you're responding to here...

Garfield not being able to save the scene.

don't see how you could have interpreted it that way unless both characters knew she was going to die and that look as they were falling was them saying goodbye. But Peter thought he could save her.

If it wasn't for the character at least for me was,when Gwen closed her eyes it's when she finally accepted her fate,it's their moment IMO.


No, it was hers. Peter's choice was for her not to be there. Gwen ignored it. Ergo the choice was hers.

Not only that but going after he but yeah yeah I see your point.

No it didn't, because again that isn't what killed her. Again the movie dialogue spells it out for you; them being together was their decision not Gwen's father's.

I'm glad you don't think that the promise was the fault but Captain Stacy words were foreshadowing for Peter "People will get hurt,sometimes even people closest to you",Gwen stubbornness got her killed and I do agree and understand that but Peter like I said before have his half, let's agree to disagree here.


Going into super villain battles of your own free will is not part of dating Spider-Man. Hence why Peter tried to stop her.

I agree but even the Gwen knew the risks of dating someone with a large gallery of enemies like Spider-Man, she could have been kidnapped anyway.

If the Joker was easy he would not be Batman's greatest villain

The best villain of all time of you ask me.

Seriously, I can't stand when people says that GG is better than him.
 
Da Games Elite, you're going to get in trouble for comparing Raimi's Spider-Man with Webb's. It is against the rules here. You should edit your post before one of the moderators sees it.



It's not the truth. I liked Rachel's death more than Gwen's. I don't think any of the death scenes in the TASM movies have been done well. Most comic book movies beat them at doing emotion with characters.

Then it's not the truth that Rachel death was handled better either.
 
Then it's not the truth that Rachel death was handled better either.

Really, there is no "truth" as to which death is better. All people respond to different things more in film. It's more about which one you liked more.

...and, so far, TASM's death scenes felt more real and powerful to me than most other superhero death scenes. Or, at the very least, made me feel sad. That's more than I can say for most death scenes in most movies.
 
I did not say it was truth. Only you used that word for your opinion.

I used because there's always people using that word when pointing the movies allegedly flaws.

But I see your point,it's a matter of opinion and sorry if i came a bit rude.
 
Garfield not being able to save the scene.

He didn't. Some convincing crying acting doesn't make all the other issues vanish, mate.

If it wasn't for the character at least for me was,when Gwen closed her eyes it's when she finally accepted her fate,it's their moment IMO.

Closing your eyes and accepting your fate is not saying goodbye. She only did that when she came close to the bottom and probably realized she wasn't going to be saved, or saved in time.

Not only that but going after he but yeah yeah I see your point.

Middle ground. It feels good to stand there with you, Andrew :yay:

I'm glad you don't think that the promise was the fault but Captain Stacy words were foreshadowing for Peter "People will get hurt,sometimes even people closest to you",Gwen stubbornness got her killed and I do agree and understand that but Peter like I said before have his half, let's agree to disagree here.

Yeah that's the risks of being with Spider-Man that you mentioned. Every girlfriend who knew his secret said the same thing. Even you know who at the end of a certain Raimi sequel.

If you're dating a superhero there is always an element of risk. But the difference is the risks they speak of is not them ignoring their superhero bfs and going running into super villain battles.

I agree but even the Gwen knew the risks of dating someone with a large gallery of enemies like Spider-Man, she could have been kidnapped anyway.

Possibly yeah. That's one of the risks they speak of. I can't think of a Spidey love interest who has not been kidnapped by a villain lol.

The best villain of all time of you ask me.

:highfive:

Seriously, I can't stand when people says that GG is better than him.

Well to each their own. Goblin is a great villain, one of the top 10 comic book villains so I don't see it in an insulting way. Even though I highly disagree with it.

But I don't want to turn the thread into a Joker vs Goblin thread either lol.
 
I think people look past the impact of Rachel's death sometimes. Not only did it effect Bruce and Harvey, but Gordon as well. That's what made their final confrontation at the end of TDK personal and emotional for everyone involved. As far as no one caring about Rachel's death, I think they were more in shock about what had happened and didn't have time to react emotionally to her death. I didn't shed a tear over her dying, but you could feel the impact of it watching the rest of the movie.

I really felt nothing during Gwen's death. It was handled poorly. If they had made it more of Peter's fault for her being at the power plant, then that would have been a start. This is just one of many things they got wrong with the movie.
 

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