Dr. Lecter Invites you to Dinner. The ''Hannibal'' Thread - Part 4

[antsman41]

I like the change, plus it really wasn't Will who threw

Spoiler

Chilton

under the bus... it was Alana. Yes, Will condoned it but they made a solid reason for the change story wise.

Also, I need a gif/avatar of Mads/Hannibal slurping up that lip piece.

That was the scariest yet funniest thing ever.

 

[hellblazer103]

I like the change, plus it really wasn't Will who threw

Spoiler

Chilton

under the bus... it was Alana. Yes, Will condoned it but they made a solid reason for the change story wise.

Also, I need a gif/avatar of Mads/Hannibal slurping up that lip piece.

That was the scariest yet funniest thing ever.

agreed . that scene gave me legit lol's.

This episode has not aired in the US yet. Please do not post copyrighted material.

 

[antsman41]

Thank You, so much.

See above.

 

[slimshady247]

I think

Spoiler

Freddie burning alive in a wheelchair could have worked in theory, especially if they played up the fact that it was a direct taunt from Dolarhyde to Will. As Bryan Fuller mentioned in an interview during season 2 that he saw the original scheme as a way of Hannibal/Dolarhyde saying "This is how you should have died, this is how you will die." Hannibal himself reflected it in this very episode, so I think it could have worked well as an ironic echo.

I actually think the change comes from gender issues in that specific scene. Obviously there's a level of outrage it would have invoked, especially given some stuff that has happened on other big series when it comes to depiction of violence towards [blackout] women, [/blackout] and no doubt that would have caused ire. But also, Dolarhyde's pathology is very specific. [blackout] He focuses on the women above all others, and they play a central role in his Becoming. [/blackout] What he does to that character is outside of his usual pathology, his needs. Given how...unsettlingly intimate it is the whole scene would become something else, gains another undertone which maybe they were worried about depicting.

Spoiler

Perhaps, but I don't know. Thinking over it, I don't know that it would feel right for them to throw Freddie under the bus like that. And indeed, Freddie being female in this also probably was part of the choice for why they didn't give her such a gruesome death, but like I said, I feel like using the other Fred actually works better for the themes and established character relationships in the show.

To be fair regarding Dolarhyde's pathology, it may be that he focuses more on women in the novel, but the show doesn't really seem to emphasize that aspect of it at all (once again for fear of telling rape stories, as Bryan Fuller put it, which is perfectly understandable). It's more about the family unit. Thus, I think that it makes sense for the show's version of Dolarhyde to do what he does.

But that's just me, lol.

I like the change, plus it really wasn't Will who threw

Spoiler

Chilton

under the bus... it was Alana. Yes, Will condoned it but they made a solid reason for the change story wise.

Also, I need a gif/avatar of Mads/Hannibal slurping up that lip piece.

That was the scariest yet funniest thing ever.

 

[Matt]

Friendly reminder: Until an episode airs in the US, it is generally against Hype policies to post screen grabs, GIFs, etc.

 

[hellblazer103]

appy polly loggies.

 

[Roose Bolton]

Spoiler

Perhaps, but I don't know. Thinking over it, I don't know that it would feel right for them to throw Freddie under the bus like that. And indeed, Freddie being female in this also probably was part of the choice for why they didn't give her such a gruesome death, but like I said, I feel like using the other Fred actually works better for the themes and established character relationships in the show.

To be fair regarding Dolarhyde's pathology, it may be that he focuses more on women in the novel, but the show doesn't really seem to emphasize that aspect of it at all (once again for fear of telling rape stories, as Bryan Fuller put it, which is perfectly understandable). It's more about the family unit. Thus, I think that it makes sense for the show's version of Dolarhyde to do what he does.

But that's just me, lol.

Spoiler

In The novel, no one really liked Chilton either, he was still a slimy person. I'm not really sure that he has become the pseudo Lounds to all of these other characters in the show either. Freddie has done things to piss off the protagonists at various points and still more or less serves the same basic function as the book counterpart. Right now she's kind of become redundant as a character, which just feels like a weird dangling thread that they have no real use for. Fuller can do better than that, I think.

They do actually say this episode that Dolarhyde focuses more on his female victims (along with Zeller's comments in episode 8 about Dolaryhyde placing shards of glass in Mrs Leeds labia) it's why Will chooses to make the remark about the character being impotent. So I think the whole element is still in play, but they just don't out and out say the gruesome details. It's like Mason and the children at his camp.

That's my opinion at least.

 

[Asgard]

Spoiler

Yikes at that lip scene. Graphic as hell.

It made sense for the Dragon to go after Chilton rather than Freddie since Will's lies came from his mouth. Freddie just reported it. Besides, Dollarhyde always goes after the pets first, and in this case Chilton was Will's.

 

[Matt]

I think Roose's point is that there was no real reason to even include Chilton in the scene. It could've easily been Freddie and Will, no one else. Forcing Chilton in for the purpose of him being a surrogate to Freddie...honestly, I don't get why it was done either. I guess the writers just felt Freddie wasn't a major enough character for it to have an impact?

I have to say as a whole I am underwhelmed by the Red Dragon arc. Dolarhyde has been so terribly underdeveloped. There hasn't been a lot of logic behind his actions or natural evolution. In the book, everything Dolarhyde does (why he is killing, why he decides to stop, why he eats the Red Dragon, why he is driven back into killing, why he targets Will, etc)...it all has a natural progression. Fueller hasn't followed that progression. As such, a lot of it feels...empty or random. I mean, at the end, he just kidnaps Reba, because why not? We have to set up a climax for the story. In the novel there is a motivation for that, a catalyst, that makes him want to start killing again. I guess on the show it is Dr. Chilton and Will insulting him? Weak sauce, IMO. Dolarhyde is a much deeper character than he has been portrayed.

Honestly, I'm not even crazy about Armitage's portrayal. It has glimmers of something that could be good, but a lot of it is reduced to him breathing heavily and saying "I'M AM THE GREAT RED DRAGON!" in a melodramatic, Christian Bale-Batman voice.

This arc just feels poorly constructed. BeDelia, Hannibal's seeming cat and mouse game with Alana (that may or may not go anywhere), etc. These things feel like wastes of time that are taking away from what should be a very narrow and focused story.

The show is still beautifully shot, mostly well acted, and compelling..but the flaws are less hidden in this arc. But feel free to discard all of that mean ol'Matt just hates Hannibal.

 

[hellblazer103]

i guess they wanted their take on francis to be a bit more mysterious. i know that sounds like a lame excuse, but it's all i got really lol.

 

[antsman41]

Matt, since NBC (US) doesn't care about Hannibal airing tonight (let alone ever) because of stupid football... can I just have my avatar back?

 

[Maximus One]

I just keep hearing Ben Stein in my head. "Fueller? Fueller?"

 

[antsman41]

I just keep hearing Ben Stein in my head. "Fueller? Fueller?"

Bueller? Bueller?

 

[Matt]

Matt, since NBC (US) doesn't care about Hannibal airing tonight (let alone ever) because of stupid football... can I just have my avatar back?

No. Until it airs in the US it is considered pirated.

 

[antsman41]

No. Until it airs in the US it is considered pirated.

When is that, because it is airing someplaces (?) at 9pm and others at 3am?

 

[Jesse]

Episode 12 "The Number of the Beast Is 666..." Not a bad penultimate episode but for some reason I was expecting a little more. The Chilton and Dolarhyde scenes were massively creepy though and again I really felt sorry for Reba. Dolarhyde biting off Chilton's lips was brutal and the gore looked great. Chilton on fire tied to the wheelchair was just crazy and the special effects makeup used for his burns was gruesome. Can't believe there is only one episode left I will be sad when this amazing series is over.

 

[Slick]

Three seasons in I never turned away from the gore. But that lip biting scene got to me lol. I feel bad for Chilton

 

[KillerMcQueen]

Kinda disappointed that the show, like the films, has pretty much ignored Dolarhyde's childhood, if they'd cut Bedelia from the season and just killed Alana last season instead of her just sorta taking on other character's roles they might have had the time to flesh out Dolarhyde more than they have, he's much more interesting than hearing bedelia pause for an eternity between every other word while spouting some pretentious BS I couldn't care less about. That said I enjoyed the episode overall, I hope the finale explains some of the odd choices they've made recently.

 

[Broseph44]

I just keep hearing Ben Stein in my head. "Fueller? Fueller?"

Me too hahaha. No idea why he continues to spell it this way when he refers to him. Oh well.

 

[Broseph44]

Great episode, that lip biting scene was intense.

 

[Schlosser85]

he's much more interesting than hearing bedelia pause for an eternity between every other word while spouting some pretentious BS I couldn't care less about

Does anyone else think Gillian Anderson is wooden as a log as Bedelia?

She says every single line ever in the same monotone.

 

[Matt]

Does anyone else think Gillian Anderson is wooden as a log as Bedelia?

She says every single line ever in the same monotone.

Agreed. And honestly, I feel like the character as a whole is a waste of time. She doesn't add much of anything to the show. The first season, she was kind of a cool addition, in the sense that she was the only character who had no connection to the FBI and seemed to see Hannibal for what he was, but didn't bring much to the table in terms of the narrative.

The second season, she was set up as someone who would play a role in exposing Hannibal and exonerating Will (the whole "I believe you," scene). But then she just disappeared until she popped back up, flying away with Hannibal. It felt like a twist for twist's sake.

In season 3.0, she basically existed to give Hannibal someone to play off of and say his lines to, but she did absolutely nothing in terms of narrative. In season 3.5 it is even more egregious because she has taken away screen time from more interesting characters (Jack, Dolarhyde, Will, Molly, etc) for no reason other than to spell out things that the audience already gets (I mean, the implication that Hannibal loves Will is about as subtle as being hit with a stack of bricks...do we really need a five minute scene devoted to Fueller and the writers laying it out to us?).

 

[Sawyer]

Does anyone else think Gillian Anderson is wooden as a log as Bedelia?

She says every single line ever in the same monotone.

The character is purposefully controlled. I think that can come across as being wooden.

 

[Schlosser85]

Agreed. And honestly, I feel like the character as a whole is a waste of time. She doesn't add much of anything to the show. The first season, she was kind of a cool addition, in the sense that she was the only character who had no connection to the FBI and seemed to see Hannibal for what he was, but didn't bring much to the table in terms of the narrative.

The second season, she was set up as someone who would play a role in exposing Hannibal and exonerating Will (the whole "I believe you," scene). But then she just disappeared until she popped back up, flying away with Hannibal. It felt like a twist for twist's sake.

In season 3.0, she basically existed to give Hannibal someone to play off of and say his lines to, but she did absolutely nothing in terms of narrative. In season 3.5 it is even more egregious because she has taken away screen time from more interesting characters (Jack, Dolarhyde, Will, Molly, etc) for no reason other than to spell out things that the audience already gets (I mean, the implication that Hannibal loves Will is about as subtle as being hit with a stack of bricks...do we really need a five minute scene devoted to Fueller and the writers laying it out to us?).

At first, she was kind of interesting because as Hannibal's own psychiatrist/confidant she was a way for us to see another side of Hannibal, and their oh-so-mysterious roundabout conversations about the incident with her former patient and the ambiguity of how much she knows about Hannibal was kind of intriguing.

But yea, she doesn't need to still be hanging around. Hannibal either should have eaten her a while ago, or when she initially got out of dodge, she should have just stayed away.

 

[Smilodon]

The lip biting takes the cake as the most frightening thing this show has done. Props to Fuller and Navarro for really pushing the horror at this point in the show's run.

Great episode. Can definitely understand the issues with Chilton standing in for Freddie, as well as him being sidelined in favor of Alana in general, but it didn't hurt the episode to me nonetheless.

Wish we would've gotten a bit more on Dolarhyde's past as others have mentioned, but at this point it's probably a deliberate choice to avoid it, which makes me wonder why? I think it's a fascinating backstory and could definitely have been told had they cut out some of the Bedelia stuff. Though, I guess the purpose of Bedelia is to have someone Will can bounce off thoughts of in a weird, semi-Hannibal way with Hannibal imprisoned. I personally don't think it's necessary, but eh.

The show's gonna end soon and Fuller's gonna try to open talks again. Don't think it'll come back with everyone's obligations to other things, but I do hope in this day and age we can get a miniseries or something. But the only story I really want to see is Silence of the Lambs, and if we can't do that, then this would be a fitting place to end.