Fan Review Thread SPOILERS INSIDE - Part 2

[DA_Champion]

I don't think Marvel only makes weak villains. Malekith was no more cliche than Zod.<==For the record, I didn't like either of those two.

Loki doesn't strike many as a weak character. Neither did Stane. I agree that the rest are mediocre at best, but I don't think it's a part of some strategy. I chalk it up more to various writers either understanding what makes a good villain or not.

Zod had far more depth than malekith. He had an origin explained in terms of a eugenics program, we saw what krypton was and what his role on it was, he had some clever lines ("and I'm arguing its merits with a ghost"), we got to know some of his team, and his character arc ends with a suicide by cop, which makes sense for the character.

 

[Feenix]

I've had this discussion with Marvel fans before and many if not most admit that the rogues gallery in the Marvel universe, at least the non X-men or Spider-man ones, aren't nearly as rich as they are on the DC side. This is why I think there was such a blow up over The Mandarin, it looked for all intense and purposes that they elevated one of those villains to an A-list level - but it was literally a joke. I'm not quite sure what their strategy is for villains, it seems to me they're not worried about it which seems odd. A hero is only as good as the villain he comes up against.

Ah, yes, classic DC villains like Parallax and Zod and Mr. Freeze.

I don't think Marvel has weak villains at all.

 

[DA_Champion]

I've had this discussion with Marvel fans before and many if not most admit that the rogues gallery in the Marvel universe, at least the non X-men or Spider-man ones, aren't nearly as rich as they are on the DC side. This is why I think there was such a blow up over The Mandarin, it looked for all intense and purposes that they elevated one of those villains to an A-list level - but it was literally a joke. I'm not quite sure what their strategy is for villains, it seems to me they're not worried about it which seems odd. A hero is only as good as the villain he comes up against.

Red Skull is another good villain that they screwed up.

If there is really nothing good in the comics, which I will take your word for, then they should just make up a villain.

 

[jmc]

I don't think Marvel only makes weak villains. Malekith was no more cliche than Zod.<==For the record, I didn't like either of those two.

Neither film does either character a great deal of justice but Zod is an integral part of the story of MoS, you can't do that movie without him. The execution may be off but who Zod is and what he stands for is an important learning curve for Superman, a vital cog in him becoming the beacon of hope for humanity. Malekith is cardboard cut out of a character in comparison with a one dimensional plan, you can throw in any evil bad guy who wants to destroy the universe and it won't make a difference.

 

[Endeavor]

Red Skull is another good villain that they screwed up.

How did they screw RS up?

 

[cherokeesam]

The Thing is if you call off Loki you are killing off Marvel's most popular Villain in the Movie world. Well unless you count Magneto but t Loki is the most popular Villain because none of the other villains have really stood out that well as Loki has.

Yes, Loki is the most popular villain in the MCU by far, and second only to Magneto in the Marvel movies as a whole. And yes, it was inevitable that his sizeable fanbase would want him to return in future movies. But do you do have to do that at the expense of Odin? Odin is the most powerful character in the Thor universe; how they gonna nerf him down to an off-hand off-screen murder by Loki, when Odin could kick Loki's ass all over the Nine Realms and still have time enough and energy to make it home for supper? It's a complete disservice to Odin.

Why do you guys think marvel only makes weak villains? Is it a narrative strategy to focus on building the heroes, because they are owned by Disney, or because the best villains in the marvelverse are property of fox and Sony?

Loki is not a weak villain. He's the most interesting and best-written of all the MCU villains; nobody else even comes close. I think Winter Soldier will feature more fleshed-out villains, and probably GOTG and AOU. But for now, any MCU villain *not* named "Loki" is still a cardboard cutout.

 

[Feenix]

Neither film does either character a great deal of justice but Zod is an integral part of the story of MoS, you can't do that movie without him. The execution may be off but who Zod is and what he stands for is an important learning curve for Superman. Malekith is cardboard cut out of a character in comparison with a one dimensional plan, you can throw in any evil bad guy who wants to destroy the universe and it won't make a difference.

Yes, quite like an evil bad guy who wants to destroy Earth (Zod).

 

[jmc]

Ah, yes, classic DC villains like Parallax and Zod and Mr. Freeze.

I don't think Marvel has weak villains at all.

Wow, you seem to have missed about 2 dozen villains above those 3.

 

[jmc]

Yes, quite like an evil bad guy who wants to destroy Earth (Zod).

Are you really incapable of seeing the difference between the two characters?

 

[Feenix]

Are you really incapable of seeing the difference between the two characters?

No, I'm not. I just don't think Zod is any better of a villain than Malekith.

 

[Feenix]

Wow, you seem to have missed about 2 dozen villains above those 3.

Those were the first 3 to come to mind.

And they're pretty effing terrible.

 

[DA_Champion]

Yes, quite like an evil bad guy who wants to destroy Earth (Zod).

Zod does not want to destroy Earth, he wants to rebuild Krypton, where the movie communicates what Krypton is, why it matters, and why it matters to Zod.

 

[jmc]

Red Skull is another good villain that they screwed up.

If there is really nothing good in the comics, which I will take your word for, then they should just make up a villain.

I don't think it's a case of there being nothing good to mine, I just don't think Marvel has the confidence to explore them and try to elevate them to the level of some other rogues. Fans want an arch rival of some sort.

 

[jmc]

Those were the first 3 to come to mind.

And they're pretty effing terrible.

Mr Freeze's got a much revered reinvention in the early 90's that has lasted ever since so I don't know where you've gotten the idea he is terrible.

 

[jmc]

No, I'm not. I just don't think Zod is any better of a villain than Malekith.

Which story collapses the easiest without the villain?

 

[Feenix]

Which story collapses the easiest with out the villain?

What? Well, without Zod, then it's just another lame Superman story (which we've all heard already). So, the movie essentially becomes one massive bore fest. The same re-hashed material.

Also, Zod is bad at math. "There's only one way this ends: Either you die or I do."

That's 2 ways.

 

[Marvolo]

What? Well, without Zod, then it's just another lame Superman story (which we've all heard already). So, the movie essentially becomes one massive bore fest. The same re-hashed material.

I know people have their favorites but your immediate need to tear down DC wreaks of obnoxious fanboyism. DC and marvel are both rich in story and characters. No need to flame either one.

 

[Feenix]

I know people have their favorites but your immediate need to tear down DC wreaks of obnoxious fanboyism. DC and marvel are both rich in story and characters. No need to flame either one.

Have you not noticed the tearing down of Marvel before this? If someone wants to make a point out of calling Marvel villains weak, I'll answer back with a comparison to DC. Both have riches and both have major faults.

Obnoxious fanboyism is not reading carefully

 

[Mjölnir]

You don't say? Thanks for pointing that out.

He/she apparently needed to point it out to you because if you're aware that it's just your opinion, how can it be puzzling? Do you actually think it's strange that people can have differing opinions?

 

[jmc]

What? Well, without Zod, then it's just another lame Superman story (which we've all heard already). So, the movie essentially becomes one massive bore fest. The same re-hashed material.

Also, Zod is bad at math. "There's only one way this ends: Either you die or I do."

That's 2 ways.

I shouldn't be surprised of this type of response. Another day on the Hype.

 

[DA_Champion]

What? Well, without Zod, then it's just another lame Superman story (which we've all heard already). So, the movie essentially becomes one massive bore fest. The same re-hashed material.

Also, Zod is bad at math. "There's only one way this ends: Either you die or I do."

That's 2 ways.

He is saying death is the only way.

 

[DA_Champion]

He/she apparently needed to point it out to you because if you're aware that it's just your opinion, how can it be puzzling? Do you actually think it's strange that people can have differing opinions?

All opinions are equally valid ;-)

 

[Marvolo]

Have you not noticed the tearing down of Marvel before this? If someone wants to make a point out of calling Marvel villains weak, I'll answer back with a comparison to DC. Both have riches and both have major faults.

Obnoxious fanboyism is not reading carefully

I read carefully and didn't see anyone "tearing down" Marvel. The poster made a legitimate level headed observation about the marvel films. The films do have weak villians, and no where did he say DC had stronger villains. In his post he didnt say "Marvel teh suck DC rules all!" But that is apparently how you read his post based on your response. Defend the marvel films on their own merits not by tearing down DC or some other comic brand.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

I really wouldn't consider

Stane, Red Skull, Loki, General Ross, or Malekieth "weak" by any means...

Red Skull and Malekieth are a bit one dimensional in the "I want to take over the world" kinda way.. but skull was portrayed exactly how he was in the comics... if and when he returns.. im sure he will have more depth.

Malekieth at least proved how much of a threat he was... why he wants to take over the realms and make them look like a dark wasteland.. i don't really get, but eh.. that's most villains, logic typically escapes them.

I do feel the same way about Zod though, learning more about his past fleshes the character out more, but he still wants to kill millions of people turn earth into a bizzare world and rule over everyone. "just cuz and stuff"

 

[Marvolo]

I really wouldn't consider

Stane, Red Skull, Loki, General Ross, or Malekieth "weak" by any means...

Red Skull and Malekieth are a bit one dimensional in the "I want to take over the world" kinda way.. but skull was portrayed exactly how he was in the comics... if and when he returns.. im sure he will have more depth.

Malekieth at least proved how much of a threat he was... why he wants to take over the realms and make them look like a dark wasteland.. i don't really get, but eh.. that's most villains, logic typically escapes them.

I do feel the same way about Zod though, learning more about his past fleshes the character out more, but he still wants to kill millions of people turn earth into a bizzare world and rule over everyone. "just cuz and stuff"

I think we can all agree comic movies regardless of brand have dropped the villain ball at times. One thing ill say tho is "thats how he was in the comics" is no excuse for a one dimensional villain. They should strive to be better.