Fant4stic Fant4stic: Reborn! - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 31

[Urich Leeds]

So is the marketing for the movie going to increase?

Probably not. We'll few a spots, and maybe another trailer, but don't expect a significant marketing blitz.

 

[Spiderine]

This! Sinister 2 may also be a possibility to as far as far as late Summer movies go.

Both are day one 3D IMAX with the fam.

Aw and things were going so smoothly, no arguing or bickering and then this just tore everything down. Talk about irony and party pooping all in one small little post.

Since when is wanting all Marvel films under the MCU a bad thing? Daredevil is proof of the opposite and now Spider-man is on board.

When more than 50% of Fox's Marvel films are still unanimously considered to be crap with this one shaping up to be no better in many people's opinion. How is routing for the Studio that usually get things right blind loyalist.

The issue is lumping people up into groups in the first place. I personally may strongly disagree with you in this thread and grive you the thumbs up in a thread in another section here. I don't have time to be holding bitter grudges while profiling people.

I don't get this either. FF is the one last property Marvel doesn't have that could actually be taken to new heights and given an injection of life with its interaction with other Marvel characters. Out of the ones that actually reverted this one definitely fits better than any of them. It not just about the four either, but all the supporting characters and villains. Talk about potential................but right now the future for the four looks......Grimm.

 

[Mike Murdock]

Yeah, I think Marvel could do far more with the Fantastic Four - both the characters themselves and their villains. I think they would happily try to make them stars.

With the X-Men, I'm fine with them as a separate world. I'd love it if the two got along better and could coordinate on things, but Fox is aggressively pursuing X-Men spinoffs and can ensure that diverse world appears in their movies (I just wish they'd embrace the fantastical more readily, but New Mutants might do just that). By leaving Fox with the X-Men, we'll do a better job ensuring both a lot of X-Men stuff and ensuring that everything else gets its fair shake.

 

[starscream22]

So what if some find the 2 F4 films better than some of the X-Men films....it's an opinion.

Why do people take this kind of thing so personally?

I just don't get it.

Willie Lumpkin is like the unofficial "Yoda" amonst those who have issue with this reboot. So to discredit him somehow will win the anti-Fourstic war, or something....

 

[Spiderine]

Yeah, I think Marvel could do far more with the Fantastic Four - both the characters themselves and their villains. I think they would happily try to make them stars.

With the X-Men, I'm fine with them as a separate world. I'd love it if the two got along better and could coordinate on things, but Fox is aggressively pursuing X-Men spinoffs and can ensure that diverse world appears in their movies (I just wish they'd embrace the fantastical more readily, but New Mutants might do just that). By leaving Fox with the X-Men, we'll do a better job ensuring both a lot of X-Men stuff and ensuring that everything else gets its fair shake.

Yeah....FOX can keep all that. But its totally weird to me that some of these people support a FF/Xmen crossover. Them dudes don't even belong anywhere near Xmen.

If you really want to see a meaningful crossover doesn't it make sense to be in the MCU? Doesn't that make a lot more sense? I mean seriously, they on board with them appearing in the darker Xmen, but those MCU characters....that would never work!

 

[Dasher10]

I don't get this either. FF is the one last property Marvel doesn't have that could actually be taken to new heights and given an injection of life with its interaction with other Marvel characters. Out of the ones that actually reverted this one definitely fits better than any of them. It not just about the four either, but all the supporting characters and villains. Talk about potential................but right now the future for the four looks......Grimm.

Even with Spider-Man, Black Panther and Captain Marvel rounding out the Avengers roster? And if Doctor Strange takes off, expect Ghost Rider to be very related to Strange. Thunderbolts also works pretty well in the MCU considering that the only major character they're missing is Juggernaut.

 

[Dasher10]

Yeah, I think Marvel could do far more with the Fantastic Four - both the characters themselves and their villains. I think they would happily try to make them stars.

With the X-Men, I'm fine with them as a separate world. I'd love it if the two got along better and could coordinate on things, but Fox is aggressively pursuing X-Men spinoffs and can ensure that diverse world appears in their movies (I just wish they'd embrace the fantastical more readily, but New Mutants might do just that). By leaving Fox with the X-Men, we'll do a better job ensuring both a lot of X-Men stuff and ensuring that everything else gets its fair shake.

Are you implying that M and Penance are somehow fantastical if Emplate is the villain or that Magik is fantastical if Selene is the big bad? That New Mutants is somehow not a grounded, gritty series that has demon bears, superheroes who can function normally despite having their jaw blown off and shapeshifting evil rats?

 

[Eddie]

I was taking a peek at the book Fantastic Four: The Universal Guide earlier. For those who don't know, this book has quite a bit of information on the Fantastic Four comics, and it covers a wide variety of stuff (there's even a page on the 2099 version, which, oddly enough, feels like it may have been an influence on Fant4ststic- more on that later). It was also included with one of the DVDs for a previous film, so this was a Fox Fantastic Four promotional item.

Looking at the contents, it's so bizarre that it seems there was a time when Fox didn't want to disguise the Fantastic Four in an unrecognizable adaptation that's somehow "better" than everything that came before it. This book features an introduction by Stan Lee, it goes into detail about the characters, it has family trees, breakdowns of classic stories, and more. In short, it feels like a love letter to fans of Marvel Comics' The Fantastic Four.

These days, we get presented with a "new take" from filmmakers that seem as embarrassed of the source material as they could be. We get a director that tells us, in an incredibly pretentious way, that we don't know the definition of the word fantastic. He tells us it means David Cronenberg's The Fly. Fans are told that the characters had to be changed, not because they found actors that would knock it out of the park even though they were a bit different than their comic counterparts, but because it was written that way to be "more interesting". Gone is the tale of Ben Grimm, summarized in this book. No more large street tough that makes a better life for himself. Now he's intentionally written as a scrawny guy that got bullied. So many things are nust unrecognizable.

What do fans get? They get called racists. Fun fact: Stan's description of Johnny goes, "I'd make him a typical teenager, impatient, hot-blooded and overly impetuous. He likes girls and sports cars as much, and maybe more, than saving the world." I've seen the trailers. MBJ is the one actor in them that actually reflects their traditional description. It's the rest of the cast that doesn't (scrawny Ben and man in a suit Mole Man being two of the big ones). The fans are told their version isn't interesting. The fans are told they shouldn't say anything bad about a version of the story that doesn't feel much like a Fantastic Four story.

In short, a lot has changed since Fox was slapping their logo on the back of a piece of cardboard that contained a DVD of their film and a book that celebrated decades of Fantastic Four comics.

Now for that 2099 thing I mentioned earlier. I'm not personally familiar with Fantastic Four in the 2099 comics, but part of their description in the book caught my eye: a large corporation (in 2099, corporations have replaced governments) "declared that the FF were genetic experiments that had gone astray and claimed them as escaped property." That kinda feels like the role the military seems to play in this film. Just something I noticed while skimming.

 

[Kelly]

Interesting...

 

[Loden Greatstorm]

Probably not. We'll few a spots, and maybe another trailer, but don't expect a significant marketing blitz.

Such a shame.

 

[Marvin]

I'm not 'spinning' anything, and I frankly don't care what you or anyone else thinks. I'm not trying to craft an argument, I'm venting.

hmm
well, knowing this(I didn't before), I'll make more of an attempt to stay out of your way.

Am I a bit irrational? Probably so. The word 'fan' comes from 'fanatic' and my interest in these characters is emotional, not rational.

Again, not every detractor fan does this thing you are describing, at least not unabashedly.

But he didn't say that. He said he didn't like Ben as he was in the comics and made a conscious decision to make him more 'interesting'.

And even that, by itself, wouldn't be terrible, but add it to everything else and it's clear these film-makers have no interest in portraying the characters I had hoped to see.

That pisses me off, and I'm going to express it.

I get and understand ranting and ranting about not getting what you want, or want to see rather. I find myself however compelled to contend when this takes the form of arguing for something's lack of quality as opposed to simply claiming it's not for you.
Case in point, I want Batman a certain way given what I read growing up. However there is a difference between me going on about the last film series overall quality and my simply not liking them. Same with DD.
I'm curious if you are at all talking about quality or simply you not getting what you want is all.

And again, the term 'more interesting' doesn't actually negate the level of interesting of what came before. Me finding(and saying) Tony Stark developing Ultron 'more interesting' than Hank Pym doing so, doesn't AUTOMATICALLY mean I find the original approach utterly non interesting. The term 'more'. I digress.
I just think you are putting too many words in their mouths and painting a picture in this regard. And then when this much is pointed out you start talking about venting and fanaticism. That's all well and good but you could still do your thing in a more accurate way. Just saying.

 

[Docker2.0]

Yeah, I think Marvel could do far more with the Fantastic Four - both the characters themselves and their villains. I think they would happily try to make them stars.

With the X-Men, I'm fine with them as a separate world. I'd love it if the two got along better and could coordinate on things, but Fox is aggressively pursuing X-Men spinoffs and can ensure that diverse world appears in their movies (I just wish they'd embrace the fantastical more readily, but New Mutants might do just that). By leaving Fox with the X-Men, we'll do a better job ensuring both a lot of X-Men stuff and ensuring that everything else gets its fair shake.

Yeah Xmen seems to be a different world or even universe than Marvel so it's better if Fox kept them but had some kind of working arrangement where they could consider working together. I don't think Fox realizes that this hurts them more than Disney.

Yeah....FOX can keep all that. But its totally weird to me that some of these people support a FF/Xmen crossover. Them dudes don't even belong anywhere near Xmen.

If you really want to see a meaningful crossover doesn't it make sense to be in the MCU? Doesn't that make a lot more sense? I mean seriously, they on board with them appearing in the darker Xmen, but those MCU characters....that would never work!

I don't get the F4/Xmen crossover either. They don't fit together at all. I don't get why Fox just doesn't expand the Xmen universe instead of everything being on Earth. Bring on the Starjammers and a time traveling Cable. Everything they do seems to be gritty........hopefully Deadpool changes all that.

 

[Zarex]

Willie Lumpkin is like the unofficial "Yoda" amonst those who have issue with this reboot. So to discredit him somehow will win the anti-Fourstic war, or something....

Yeah, Willie is one of the few actual FF fans (I'm not counting FOX/Marvel cheerleaders or DC rooters) who have tried keeping an open mind about this production. I know mine was shut years ago.

 

[fixxxer]

I think a lot of folks are over-complicating this crapfest. Here's what I know...

1. Fox had absolutely no interest in putting out a FF movie and were woefully unprepared to do so. The only reason it wasn't shelved was that they would lose the rights to the characters. This was a cheap rights grab.

2. The only reason Trank was hired was that he made a visually impressive (and overall quite good) movie on a shoestring budget. The original FF budget was on the extreme lower end of the norm for the Marvel/DC CBM genre in this day and age. Even more so when one considers the source material. Again, this was a cheap rights grab.

3. Trank's behavior over the past several months has (at a minimum) been bizarre. Trank was clearly not emotionally/psychologically ready to helm even a medium-high budget movie. He screwed things up royally (at the very least from Fox's perspective) necessitating major re-shoots, possibly cutting into the 3D conversion budget. The cheap rights grab started to get more expensive.

4. The cast has collectively behaved like buffoons every single time they've talked to the press about this movie. From Mara who didn't seem like she knew she was in the movie despite Kinberg telling everyone that they were going to start shooting in a couple of days to "they'll see it anyway" to "he hate me" to BLOGGER ****ING DOOM. Except possibly Jamie Bell, who said... nothing.

5. The source material has been thrown out the window. There's a reason folks here are calling it FFINO. This has been discussed many many times on this and other threads so I won't go into it in depth. Making changes to the source material can often be a good thing. And at times it is an absolute necessity. However, in this case, the source material has simply been thrown out. That's a big, disgusting difference.

6. Fox has mishandled the marketing of this movie. From sheer apathy to not putting out a consistent message to the "Meet Mark Millar: FMCU Overlord" fiasco (LMAO... remember that?) to talking about grandiose FF/X-Men crossover plans only to hastily backpedal to... gods, I just realized I could just drone on and on and on about this and not even scratch the surface. Jeez, this is really starting to depress me. Let's just move on.

7. Everyone surrounding the movie pretend that all of the people who are critical of this production are critical only because a black actor is playing a white character. Ironically, I think the MBJ casting (class-A jackass and overall dum-dum that he is) might actually be the single only thing that this entire production has gotten right. That leaves me bitter and the following even more so... why not cast a black actress as Sue? Not that adopted siblings are necessarily "lesser" than natural siblings in any way ... but when the entire reason for them to be adopted siblings is so that they can cast a white woman as Sue, it ****ing reeks of tokenism. There is truly much ugliness here.

Look, I could list off a dozen more points, but I really don't have the time, and this is really starting to bum me out. Again, moving on.

This still might be a good movie... Trank (despite everything) has shown flashes of talent... but I cannot in good faith support it. I feel obligated to actively root against it. I hope it crashes and burns at the BO. I hope it offends the public to the extent that they have to apologize for having made this. To the extent that Fox learns lessons from their mishandling of this production. For the absolute hellish WTF-ery they've put long time FF fans through.

To me, this is not the FF and never will be. FFINO 'twill forever be.

 

[TeeKay]

I think a lot of folks are over-complicating this crapfest. Here's what I know...

1. Fox had absolutely no interest in putting out a FF movie and were woefully unprepared to do so. The only reason it wasn't shelved was that they would lose the rights to the characters. This was a cheap rights grab.

2. The only reason Trank was hired was that he made a visually impressive (and overall quite good) movie on a shoestring budget. The original FF budget was on the extreme lower end of the norm for the Marvel/DC CBM genre in this day and age. Even more so when one considers the source material. Again, this was a cheap rights grab.

3. Trank's behavior over the past several months has (at a minimum) been bizarre. Trank was clearly not emotionally/psychologically ready to helm a even a medium-high budget movie. He screwed things up royally necessitating major re-shoots, possibly cutting into the 3D conversion budget. The cheap rights grab started to get more expensive.

4. The cast has collectively behaved like buffoons every single time they've talked to the press about this movie. From Mara who didn't seem like she knew she was in the movie despite Kinberg telling Except possible Jamie Bell, who said... nothing.

5. The source material has been thrown out the window. There's a reason folks here are calling it FFINO. This has been discussed many many times on this and other threads so I won't go into it in depth. Making changes to the source material can often be a good thing. And at times it is an absolute necessity. However, in this case, the source material has simply been thrown out. That's a big, disgusting difference.

6. Fox has mishandled the marketing of this movie. From sheer apathy to not putting out a consistent message to the "Meet Mark Millar: FMCU Overlord" fiasco (LMAO... remember that?) to talking about grandiose FF/X-Men crossover plans only to hastily backpedal to... gods, I just realized I could just drone on and on and on about this and not even scratch the surface. Jeez, this is really starting to depress me.

7. Everyone surrounding the movie pretend that all of the people who are critical of this production are critical only because a black actor is playing a white character. Ironically, I think the MBJ casting (class-A jackass and overall dum-dum that he is) might actually be the single only thing that this entire production has gotten right. That leaves me bitter and the following even more so... why not cast a black actress as Sue? Not that adopted siblings are in any way less connected than natural siblings... but when the entire reason for them to be adopted siblings is so that they can cast a white woman as Sue, it ****ing reeks of tokenism. There is truly much ugliness here.

Look, I could list off a dozen more points, but I really don't have the time, and this is really starting to bum me out.

This still might be a good movie... Trank (despite everything) has shown flashes of talent... but I cannot in good faith support it. I feel obligated to actively root against it. I hope it crashes and burns at the BO. I hope it offends the public to the extent that they have to apologize for it. To the extent that Fox learns lessons from their mishandling of this production. To me, this is not the FF, and FFINO 'twill forever be.

 

[Eddie]

To add to that seventh point, that awful temp dialogue Jeremy Slater tweeted (and then deleted, but we saw it before that happened) confirmed that a black actress was never considered for the role of Sue. She was white and Johnny was black from the very first script, well before they cast Kate Mara.

 

[Dr Tactics]

I think a lot of folks are over-complicating this crapfest. Here's what I know...

1. Fox had absolutely no interest in putting out a FF movie and were woefully unprepared to do so. The only reason it wasn't shelved was that they would lose the rights to the characters. This was a cheap rights grab.

2. The only reason Trank was hired was that he made a visually impressive (and overall quite good) movie on a shoestring budget. The original FF budget was on the extreme lower end of the norm for the Marvel/DC CBM genre in this day and age. Even more so when one considers the source material. Again, this was a cheap rights grab.

3. Trank's behavior over the past several months has (at a minimum) been bizarre. Trank was clearly not emotionally/psychologically ready to helm even a medium-high budget movie. He screwed things up royally (at the very least from Fox's perspective) necessitating major re-shoots, possibly cutting into the 3D conversion budget. The cheap rights grab started to get more expensive.

4. The cast has collectively behaved like buffoons every single time they've talked to the press about this movie. From Mara who didn't seem like she knew she was in the movie despite Kinberg telling everyone that they were going to start shooting in a couple of days to "they'll see it anyway" to "he hate me" to BLOGGER ****ING DOOM. Except possibly Jamie Bell, who said... nothing.

5. The source material has been thrown out the window. There's a reason folks here are calling it FFINO. This has been discussed many many times on this and other threads so I won't go into it in depth. Making changes to the source material can often be a good thing. And at times it is an absolute necessity. However, in this case, the source material has simply been thrown out. That's a big, disgusting difference.

6. Fox has mishandled the marketing of this movie. From sheer apathy to not putting out a consistent message to the "Meet Mark Millar: FMCU Overlord" fiasco (LMAO... remember that?) to talking about grandiose FF/X-Men crossover plans only to hastily backpedal to... gods, I just realized I could just drone on and on and on about this and not even scratch the surface. Jeez, this is really starting to depress me. Let's just move on.

7. Everyone surrounding the movie pretend that all of the people who are critical of this production are critical only because a black actor is playing a white character. Ironically, I think the MBJ casting (class-A jackass and overall dum-dum that he is) might actually be the single only thing that this entire production has gotten right. That leaves me bitter and the following even more so... why not cast a black actress as Sue? Not that adopted siblings are necessarily "lesser" than natural siblings in any way ... but when the entire reason for them to be adopted siblings is so that they can cast a white woman as Sue, it ****ing reeks of tokenism. There is truly much ugliness here.

Look, I could list off a dozen more points, but I really don't have the time, and this is really starting to bum me out. Again, moving on.

This still might be a good movie... Trank (despite everything) has shown flashes of talent... but I cannot in good faith support it. I feel obligated to actively root against it. I hope it crashes and burns at the BO. I hope it offends the public to the extent that they have to apologize for having made this. To the extent that Fox learns lessons from their mishandling of this production. For the absolute hellish WTF-ery they've put long time FF fans through.

To me, this is not the FF and never will be. FFINO 'twill forever be.

Say it again. Nobody has ever addressed this. And there really isn't a precedence in when has a black family adopts a white child. As much as folks call this diversity I call b******t. Diversity would have been served had Johnny and Sue had stayed blood brother and sister.. Of a black family. But let me stop. Somebody will have a problem of what was said. Just stop the madness the MBJ was hired for the purposes of a diverse cast..

 

[fixxxer]

^

I have zero problem with a *insert race here* family adopting a *insert other race here* child. Or that being portrayed on screen in any way shape or form. Irrespective of how rare it is or isn't. My problem is that I posit that the entire reason for Sue to be adopted was so that Sue can be white while Johnny can be black.

And horsecrap dialogue like "you black son! that yo' sister? haha!" does not rise to the level of being a "reason".

 

[Dr Tactics]

^

I have zero problem with a *insert race here* family adopting a *insert other race here* child. Or that being portrayed on screen in any way shape or form. Irrespective of how rare it is or isn't. My problem is that I posit that the entire reason for Sue to be adopted was so that Sue can be white while Johnny can be black.

And horsecrap dialogue like "you black son! that yo' sister? haha!" does not rise to the level of being a "reason".

Tru dat. It's whatever though in the end.

 

[kevork89]

Fair question yes I will tell you what has me interested. I personally was a fan of the F4 ultimate run. Growing up I never really connected with the F4 characters as I did with X-Men. Which is why I'm a huge X-Men fan. Based on what we have seen so far with the way they are going with a younger cast it feels very much like the ultimate F4. Which I loved.

Nothing wrong with the original stories of F4 but they were definitely a product of their time. I like a younger approach because the actors are only a few years older then me. Makes me connect with them more. I'm also a big fan of MBJ and Miles Teller. I loved Friday Night Lights, Fruitvale Station, Whiplash. They have bright futures. I was never crash on Jamie or Kate's casting but I can deal with it. Yes Trank on board really had me interested. I did love Chronicle a lot and the first trailer released gave me a Chronicle/Interstellar vibe which I was looking forward to seeing in a comic book adaptation. I like when they seem a bit more dark and grounded. The F4 do feel like they should be more in line with the Avengers style of movie but I'm willing to see how it plays out on screen first. Yes there has been issues with Trank and all that talk but it doesn't mean he isn't a good director who's put together a great movie. I honestly think he buckled under pressure of a big studio and he wasn't ready for that type of movie just yet. Which would make sense with the whole Star Wars/Disney fiasco. So what else I thought the trailers looked awesome. I honestly don't care about Doom being a hacker/blogger like everyone else. It's 2015. Doesn't mean he won't be a menacing villain or won't turn into one. I don't know what else I can say. I know Fox have made some major mistakes but I'm hoping that they don't do the same. Are the signs pointing to it? Yes. But I like to see the final product before I make a judgement.

 

[RAE072]

I honestly don't care about Doom being a hacker/blogger like everyone else. It's 2015.

What does that have to do with anything?

There aren't dictators with their own country and an entire population that "loves" them in 2015?

 

[kevork89]

I'm stating my opinion on why I'm interested in the movie. Flint wanted to know why some of us defending it have been and those are my reasons. I personally don't care about that but if other people do that's their thing. I'm ok with that. Can I have an opinion or will I be questioned for it? This is a discussion about who's into it and who isn't. Simple.

Maybe they thought adding that in will give his character "layers" i said its 2015 because it is. In 2015 everyone gets online and chat and crap. We are doing it. Why can't a villain?

 

[RAE072]

I'm stating my opinion on why I'm interested in the movie. Flint wanted to know why some of us defending it have been and those are my reasons. I personally don't care about that but if other people do that's their thing. I'm ok with that. Can I have an opinion or will I be attscked for it? This is a discussion about who's into it and who isn't. Simple.

No one's attacking you.

Discussion happens on discussion boards.

EDIT: Also, you didn't say WHY it was okay or why you liked it, just that it was 2015. That's not really an explanation as to why making Von Doom into Domashev the blogger was an idea you like.

 

[kevork89]

Yeah I edited my post. No attack but I also added why I'm fine with it. Cause everyone does it. I don't see why he wouldn't now. That's why I said its 2015. Everyone is online. Even crazy villains and dictators lol.

My defense for this mainly stems from not being loyal to fox because I love marvel. I love their properties and their movies. But I know Fox have it in them to do good. We've seen it. Maybe it isn't in this project. I will stand corrected. I've said many times I wish Fox would switch the rights for F4 to Marvel and get something else. I thin X-Men should standalone and Fox could focus on that. But we are here now and I'm still genuinely interested in seeing the final product. Like I've said many times I'll wait to see how it is. Troubled production doesn't equal a bad movie.

 

[RAE072]

Yeah I edited my post. No attack but I also added why I'm fine with it. Cause everyone does it. I don't see why he wouldn't now.

...

I can't NOT attack this reasoning so I'll just excuse myself from the conversation now.