The Dark Knight "Five dead, two of them cops"

[TromaFreak64]

Joker also stabs batman in the wound he stabbed him with the knife in boot during the party sequence.

And Joker has the dogs barking at the checyan when he makes his final threat to him and he is carried out.

Lots of little things... like he calls in to the tv station starting with a womans voice, then revealing it is him.

 

[HanaBi]

okay so i read the script today and the shot of joker in the car would have been immediatly after the party as he was getting away.. there are only two lines, when the clown driving says to him "What about Dent?" (cause he didn't kill him), and Joker responds with "I'm a man of my word" then we later cut to the two guys whos name spell HARVEY DENT killed.

And is this scene where we got the still of the Joker in the car with blurry goon in foreground?

http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=13384233&postcount=76

Anyway, glad I'm not the only one who was stymied by this line...

 

[coleyhinson]

1. Wuertz (shot by Harvey)
2. Ramirez (I am assuming she was either murdered later or committed suicide)
3. Maroni (in the crash)
4. Maroni's Driver (shot by Harvey)
5. Harvey Dent (pushed off the building by Batman)

This is my interpretation of Gordon's line, and I think it's pretty clear that he's including Dent in these five.

watch the scene when Maroni gets into his car again... look to the extreme left...somone grabs the goon standing by the car... he probably died

 

[Banquet]

reading the script even more, it made me realize, it is Ramirez the second cop -- she is also missing from the breaking of the signal because of what i said before -- and Gordon does think she died or something happened to her -- thus how they tie up the two face lose ends by batman taking the blame... it specific she is missing, so I assume, it's kind of an open ended fear that eventually she could tell the world about two face. I mean, someone else read this, from reading teh script it seems almost a 100% to me, he meant Ramirez who he thinks is dead thus how batman can take all the blame without anyone finding out -- and they specifically left Ramirez out there as a potential threat to Gotham. Like an ominous fear. Anyone else who has this book read it, and see if you can see the same thing

You know, that makes me wonder if Ramirez drops off the radar out of shame and changes her name to...

Montoya. t:

I can dream...

Joker also stabs batman in the wound he stabbed him with the knife in boot during the party sequence.

I was wondering why he said "all the familiar places." I really like that line but I had no idea why he said it.

Thanks Troma!

 

[David Rice]

1. Wuertz (shot by Harvey)
2. Ramirez (I am assuming she was either murdered later or committed suicide)
3. Maroni (in the crash)
4. Maroni's Driver (shot by Harvey)
5. Harvey Dent (pushed off the building by Batman)

This is my interpretation of Gordon's line, and I think it's pretty clear that he's including Dent in these five.

What about Maroni's third guy? The dude that get taken out just before Maroni get in the car?

 

[David Rice]

watch the scene when Maroni gets into his car again... look to the extreme left...somone grabs the goon standing by the car... he probably died

Yes!

 

[coleyhinson]

Yes!

See...you and I get Batman...do you know why?

 

[The_Raganork]

See...you and I get Batman...do you know why?

Cause you have Eyes?


I mean the guy getting grabbed is obvious

 

[TromaFreak64]

What about Maroni's third guy? The dude that get taken out just before Maroni get in the car?

In the script the third guy does not exist.

 

[coleyhinson]

Cause you have Eyes?


I mean the guy getting grabbed is obvious

I was not talking to you

 

[Banquet]

In the script the third guy does not exist.

coley just got owned.

 

[coleyhinson]

coley just got owned.

You are outta your sick mind... **** changes from script to film... Hey, I know you saw that guy... You don't gotta lie to me

 

[TromaFreak64]

You are outta your sick mind... **** changes from script to film... Hey, I know you saw that guy... You don't gotta lie to me

I just think because his character is not in the script, and that line already existed - it is unlikely that the count includes him -- like I said when re-reading the script it seems like the 2nd cop is Ramirez, because she has disappeared since whatever happened to her and they assume no one else could possibly know about two face (thus no survivors to tell on Batman). And if you stop and think about it, that makes sense.

 

[Lazlo Panaflex]

1. Wuertz (shot by Harvey)
2. Ramirez (I am assuming she was either murdered later or committed suicide)
3. Maroni (in the crash)
4. Maroni's Driver (shot by Harvey)
5. Harvey Dent (pushed off the building by Batman)

This is my interpretation of Gordon's line, and I think it's pretty clear that he's including Dent in these five.

Why would Gordon care about criminals such as Maroni and his driver (he didn't know the driver) might as well have included Gamble and the copy cat Batman.

 

[TLH]

Just seems strange that they would script Gordon's line in such a way that it was ambiguous, at least regarding the cops. If the line were "4 dead, 1 a cop" then it would not have generated this.

Maybe they originally planned for Ramirez to die and shot two scenes, one where she was killed and one where she wasn't. During the process of organizing the film, they might have decided against her death, forgetting that it was inconsistent with the last line of the film. These kinds of inconsistencies happen in films all the times.

 

[TromaFreak64]

Just seems strange that they would script Gordon's line in such a way that it was ambiguous, at least regarding the cops. If the line were "4 dead, 1 a cop" then it would not have generated this.

Maybe they originally planned for Ramirez to die and shot two scenes, one where she was killed and one where she wasn't. During the process of organizing the film, they might have decided against her death, forgetting that it was inconsistent with the last line of the film. These kinds of inconsistencies happen in films all the times.

Trunks this is what I thought until I read the script -- and its very clear that Ramirez is not to be around and heard of after Twoface spares her.. but Gordon does learn she is the one who lead her to them -- I mean the script isn't as ambiguous about him assuming her dead as the film is.

But it's still strange to me.

 

[Un1que]

Just seems strange that they would script Gordon's line in such a way that it was ambiguous, at least regarding the cops. If the line were "4 dead, 1 a cop" then it would not have generated this.

Maybe they originally planned for Ramirez to die and shot two scenes, one where she was killed and one where she wasn't. During the process of organizing the film, they might have decided against her death, forgetting that it was inconsistent with the last line of the film. These kinds of inconsistencies happen in films all the times.

I Dont Think Ramirez And Wurtz Were the Two Gordon were Mentioning Because If You Remember During The Interrogation Scene, Joker Said To Batman, "You Let Five People Die, And Then You Let Dent Take Your Place". Its Not The Murders that Dent Actually comitted, Because Remember Dent Only Killed 3 People, Wurtz, Maroni, And His Driver. I Think Gordon Was Mentioning The 5 People Joker Killed When Demanding Batman Take off His Mask

1. Brian Douglass
2. Judge Nancy Surillo
3. Comissioner Loeb

-Then When Joker Warned Gordon and Batman That Mayor Garcia Would Be Next - He Killed Two More People - GPD Officers...

4. Richard Dent
5. Patrick Harvey

In Other Words - Batman Isnt Taking The Blame Saying He Actually Killed Them, More Like He's taking Full Responsibility For Not Meeting Joker's Demand Sooner and Risking innocent civilian Lives, as Harvey Assumed The Identity Of Batman At the press Conference - Which Was for Batman to Reveal himself and Turn Himself Into police custody, Thus Taking The Blame For The Murders - And It Just Caught me That as Gordon gives That line, Batman Then Takes the Blame Back...

 

[StrainedEyes]

You are outta your sick mind... **** changes from script to film... Hey, I know you saw that guy... You don't gotta lie to me

So you think that, in the time it took Maroni to get in the car and shut the door. Two-Face grabbed the goon, flipped the coin, shot him, and then got in and sat comfortably? He's magic.

 

[David Rice]

See...you and I get Batman...do you know why?

Yes.

Cause you have Eyes?


I mean the guy getting grabbed is obvious

Ummmm, no it's not actually. I can be missed because it's a quick cut.

In the script the third guy does not exist.

Yeah, so?

I just think because his character is not in the script, and that line already existed - it is unlikely that the count includes him -- like I said when re-reading the script it seems like the 2nd cop is Ramirez, because she has disappeared since whatever happened to her and they assume no one else could possibly know about two face (thus no survivors to tell on Batman). And if you stop and think about it, that makes sense.

Not really.

 

[David Rice]

So you think that, in the time it took Maroni to get in the car and shut the door. Two-Face grabbed the goon, flipped the coin, shot him, and then got in and sat comfortably? He's magic.

Good point, but he could have just broke the guys neck or something. Who know?

 

[Kal-El_Kenobi]

un1gue is right because the interrogation happens after 5 people were killed and two face doesnt start his rampage untill after that so the count is

1. Brian Douglass
2. Comissioner Loeb
3. Judge Surillo
4. Richard Dent
5. Patrick Harvey

believe me i watched it with this in mind

 

[Rincewind]

All of them were killed by the Joker, not Two-Face.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

So anyone watching Gordon's family?

 

[Anita18]

Joker also stabs batman in the wound he stabbed him with the knife in boot during the party sequence.

...what? Isn't that the first time Batman and Joker have met?

reading the script even more, it made me realize, it is Ramirez the second cop -- she is also missing from the breaking of the signal because of what i said before -- and Gordon does think she died or something happened to her -- thus how they tie up the two face lose ends by batman taking the blame... it specific she is missing, so I assume, it's kind of an open ended fear that eventually she could tell the world about two face. I mean, someone else read this, from reading teh script it seems almost a 100% to me, he meant Ramirez who he thinks is dead thus how batman can take all the blame without anyone finding out -- and they specifically left Ramirez out there as a potential threat to Gotham. Like an ominous fear. Anyone else who has this book read it, and see if you can see the same thing

Hmm, that's an interesting observation. I wonder what they'll do with her character later.

It's possible she fled Gotham out of shame, since we see how she feels totally guilty about the whole thing.

 

[believe_batman]

I'm surprised there's not more posts here... is there a plot holes thread somewhere I'm not seeing?

Anyway, I think that Harvey HAS to be one of the 5 dead, or Batman wouldn't be able to take the blame for the killings. The big question Gordon has to answer is, how did Harvey end up dead, with Gordon's family there? The solution is that Batman kidnapped them and Harvey was killed trying to save them - which then leads to the conclusion that Batman executed the other people on Harvey's killing spree. If it wasn't for Harvey's death, Batman wouldn't have been able to take the fall. (Allowing that Harvey could be alive and in Arkham... not likely, but not impossible, imho).

So, the five dead, I think, are

1. Harvey
2. Ramirez (assumed dead, but probably not)
3. Maroni
4. Maroni's driver
5. Wuertz