Gordon: "Five people dead two of them cops"

Discussion in 'The Dark Knight' started by Two-Face, Jul 26, 2012.

  1. Two-Face Harvey Dent

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    Now all I know is Dent killed Wuetz a cop at the bar but who was other cop?

    People Dent killed:

    Weutz, Maroni, his bodyguard and his driver? Who else did he kill? Ramirez didn't die. Does Gordon mean the cops were outside his house?
     
  2. Mandalore464 New User

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    Edit : Deleted
     
    #2 Mandalore464, Jul 26, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2012
  3. henzINNIT Registered

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    It's a big old plot hole. Massively frustrating to me because it could have so easily been more ambiguous. The number doesn't make sense because surely the cops at the hospital could be attributed to the Joker (seeing as he, you know, did it).
     
  4. Anno_Domini Registered

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    Could be a plot hole, but not really.

    For as we know, the other cop wasn't around Dent's room while there is at least one cop in Dent's room that is dead.
     
  5. Mister H. I Saw A Broken Labyrinth

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    Exactly. Weurtz and the officer nurse Joker shot were the two dead cops. Then Maroni, his driver, and Dent himself.
     
  6. CraigJG Registered

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    I noticed this too, probably goes un-noticed by people who havent seen it ten of more times lol
     
  7. Drizzle Yesferatu

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    I've just taken it to be these people:

    1. Cop at Hospital
    2. Wuertz
    3. Maroni's driver
    4. Maroni
    5. Dent
     
  8. Two-Face Harvey Dent

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    Well I didn't count Dent but yeah that makes sense.
     
  9. Team Andino The Paragon of Virtue

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    While it's not always reliable the viral marketing for TDKR had that wanted poster where it blamed Batman for 6 deaths, including Dent in the original 5 that Gordon mentioned at the end of TDK. I can come up with an answer with a few ideas, but I really wished this would of been addressed in TDKR. Years of me wondering let to no definitive answer. Nolan even made mention that this would be answered one day.
     
  10. henzINNIT Registered

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    There were 3 in Maroni's entourage. The driver and Maroni were killed in the crash, but one silently disappears before he gets into the car (replaced by Dent himself). He could easily be the 3rd non-cop victim.

    The cops are the real trouble though. One is obviously Wuertz. Two disappeared (likely died) at the hospital. For those who say that the cop Joker shot was the other victim, what about the other cop: the one the Joker's victim was looking for when he is killed? That officer gets no response from his partner and rushes into Dent's room to investigate.
     
  11. Team Andino The Paragon of Virtue

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    Perhaps Gordon doesn't even know about Wuertz since it was his "day off". Gordon though for sure knows that the cops that are suppose to be guarding him in the hospital, maybe even the cops guarding his family since he probably didn't know Ramierez had done what she did. It's a subject that I've discussed with friends for years hoping to be cleared up in TDKR. Alas it's up to our imaginations to know the truth.
     
  12. Midnight Black Defender of the Universe

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    Yeah this is confusing. Since it is never really shown that Gordon knows the two cops in the hospital were killed by Dent or the Joker or that Wuertz was killed by Dent given the timeline I assumed he was referring to the cop that was flying the helicopter and the commissioner. But if not the commissioner then the cop flying the copter, a beat cop driving a car, or Wuertz...2 out of those 3.
     
  13. Team Andino The Paragon of Virtue

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    The cop from the chopper and Commisioner Loeb were killed by the Joker or traps set by the Joker, neither of which had anything to do with Dent let alone it being anywhere near the time frame of when Dent had gone mad by then.
     
  14. Midnight Black Defender of the Universe

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    So if Wuertz then who would the other cop be? The two hospital cops could be said to be killed by the explosion?
     
  15. Team Andino The Paragon of Virtue

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    We can only make some educated guesses on who the two cops were, it's possible that one was Wuertz and the other was the cop Joker shot in the hospital. Assuming the other cop wasn't killed and showed up alive. Either way there are quite a few possibilities with the given circumstances.
     
  16. Spiderine Sho nuff

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    Why would Commissioner Gordon know that he killed Maroni, the bodyguard, and his driver in the first place with all the chaos going on with Joker? Can somebody explain that? He says that right after Dent falls to his death. No one would have known what happened immediately to Maroni, especially Gordon.

    Maybe I missed something here.
     
  17. the last son Registered

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    good question
     
  18. Baramos Registered

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    Another theory is he thought Ramirez was dead at that point, whereas she was just unconscious and therefore missing. Dent was referring to Wuertz and Ramirez both as Gordon's "deal with the devil", thus Gordon probably assumed he had killed them both.

    So Maroni's bodyguard, Maroni's driver, and Maroni, added to Wuertz and Ramirez for the two cops, solves the equation. If Ramirez actually died from getting pistol whipped it might explain the newspaper article.

    I dunno. I guess it's a plot hole, really. Maybe there was a scene in the script that explained it, but I've read the script a couple of times and I can't remember anything that would solve this mystery, unlike the mystery of what happened after Batman jumped out the Penthouse window after Rache, for instance, which IS covered in the script, but not actually in the movie. This doesn't seem to be explained in the script.
     
  19. Brother Jack The Third Revelation

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    I've always thought that he must have heard that Maroni and his driver were involved in a car crash and the driver had been shot. Considering Maroni was the biggest crime boss in Gotham at the time it makes sense for that kind of news to make its way to Gordon even if it was in a very short period of time. It's the same with Wuertz and Ramirez (or whoever was the second cop), Gordon would have been told by someone that Wuertz had been killed and that Ramirez had gone missing. Considering Dent had a vendetta against those particular cops and Maroni it would be easy to surmise that he killed them.
     
  20. Anno_Domini Registered

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    He's the commissioner. If he doesn't know what's going on during the day when the siege of the building was going to be at night, then he shouldn't be the commissioner.
     
  21. Dr. From parts unknown

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    It probably falls into the “continuity error” category - a repeated detail that isn’t depicted consistently. A “plot hole” (imo) is a narrative mistake/omission that interferes with internal logic. E.g.: “How could the hero start his car when he was shown losing his keys in the previous scene?” (Well, perhaps a sloppy writer didn’t notice the problem; or perhaps a sloppy editor deleted the explanation. In any case, it’s a plot hole.)

    But in TDK, nothing particularly crucial to the narrative depends on Gordon getting the body count exactly right. So at worst… a continuity error.
     
  22. hellblazer103 Nasty Piece of Work

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    rewatching it the other day made me think the exact same thing. all i could come up with was maybe he was talking about either the bartender or the 2nd bodyguard of maroni's that "disappeared" for the 5th person.
     
  23. Midnight Black Defender of the Universe

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    Or perhaps he was just talking in general about all those that have died and how things had escalated....not necessarily blaming Harvey for what he had done or what he thought he did, but everything that had transpired.
     
  24. Baramos Registered

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    Had a thought: has anyone ever included Dent in this equation? Gordon is mostly talking about how it's hard to sweep what had happened under the rug. Dent also is killed in the whole situation. The reason why is part of the lie in TDKR.
     
  25. Anno_Domini Registered

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    They're talking about the people Dent killed though.
     

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