The Dark Knight For those of you who prefer Heath's Joker over Jack's. What makes you like his more?

[Diemtay]

What is it about The Joker from TDK (in terms of Heath's performance, the Joker's actions, dialogue, etc) that makes you hold his character higher than Jack's from 89?

For me, The Joker from TDK did not even seem human, he really did seem as though he was some force of nature, as if he was an embodiment of chaos and evil. Not only that, but the way in which he viewed the world, and the motives behind his actions, I found all of these aspects to be extremely interesting and thought provoking.

Many people write off TDK's Joker as merely some insane person with no depth to his character, but I beg to differ. I've said many times previously that The Joker in that film is easily one of the deepest, interesting characters in film, once you really look at what he does and says.

One of the highlights of his character that intrigues me the most is the fact that he spends the entire film orchestrating these elaborate methods in which he wreaks havoc and chaos into Gothem, yet all the while, he demonstrates various times that he's more than willing to die in order to achieve his goal, which "seems" completely illogical considering the extent of how detailed his plans are. It raises a question, of what kind of person would go out of his way to make so many attempts at corrupting Gothem, if he's more than happy to die at any moment? (Joker strapping bombs to himself - Demanding Batman to run him over - Giving Harvey a loaded gun)

I think the moment that really shows just how twisted of a person he is, and answers why he's fine with dying, is towards the end. As he plummets to his death off the skyscraper, he laughs hysterically. Even though he's about to die, he doesn't care, he merely laughs at the fact that he's won, that he has gotten Batman to take a life, that he's finally corrupted what was supposed to be pure good. Very few people laugh as they face their death, it's just a testament to how deranged he truly is. For the Joker, death is merely a joke, as long as his death proves his points, he's more then fine with dying. He truly is an agent of chaos, and unstoppable force.

 

[Godzilla2014]

What is it about The Joker from TDK (in terms of Heath's performance, the Joker's actions, dialogue, etc) that makes you hold his character higher than Jack's from 89?

For me, The Joker from TDK did not even seem human, he really did seem as though he was some force of nature, as if he was an embodiment of chaos and evil. Not only that, but the way in which he viewed the world, and the motives behind his actions, I found all of these aspects to be extremely interesting and thought provoking.

Many people write off TDK's Joker as merely some insane person with no depth to his character, but I beg to differ. I've said many times previously that The Joker in that film is easily one of the deepest, interesting characters in film, once you really look at what he does and says.

One of the highlights of his character that intrigues me the most is the fact that he spends the entire film orchestrating these elaborate methods in which he wreaks havoc and chaos into Gothem, yet all the while, he demonstrates various times that he's more than willing to die in order to achieve his goal, which "seems" completely illogical considering the extent of how detailed his plans are. It raises a question, of what kind of person would go out of his way to make so many attempts at corrupting Gothem, if he's more than happy to die at any moment? (Joker strapping bombs to himself - Demanding Batman to run him over - Giving Harvey a loaded gun)

I think the moment that really shows just how twisted of a person he is, and answers why he's fine with dying, is towards the end. As he plummets to his death off the skyscraper, he laughs hysterically. Even though he's about to die, he doesn't care, he merely laughs at the fact that he's won, that he has gotten Batman to take a life, that he's finally corrupted what was supposed to be pure good. Very few people laugh as they face their death, it's just a testament to how deranged he truly is. For the Joker, death is merely a joke, as long as his death proves his points, he's more then fine with dying. He truly is an agent of chaos, and unstoppable force.

To me, Heath Ledger's Joker is the best comic book movie supervillain yet, because he is very menacing. He is one of a few that actually scared me. He's also a very interesting and complex character, and he plays very well of Christian Bale's Batman.

 

[HisMagicTrick]

What is it about The Joker from TDK (in terms of Heath's performance, the Joker's actions, dialogue, etc) that makes you hold his character higher than Jack's from 89?

For me, The Joker from TDK did not even seem human, he really did seem as though he was some force of nature, as if he was an embodiment of chaos and evil. Not only that, but the way in which he viewed the world, and the motives behind his actions, I found all of these aspects to be extremely interesting and thought provoking.

Many people write off TDK's Joker as merely some insane person with no depth to his character, but I beg to differ. I've said many times previously that The Joker in that film is easily one of the deepest, interesting characters in film, once you really look at what he does and says.

One of the highlights of his character that intrigues me the most is the fact that he spends the entire film orchestrating these elaborate methods in which he wreaks havoc and chaos into Gothem, yet all the while, he demonstrates various times that he's more than willing to die in order to achieve his goal, which "seems" completely illogical considering the extent of how detailed his plans are. It raises a question, of what kind of person would go out of his way to make so many attempts at corrupting Gothem, if he's more than happy to die at any moment? (Joker strapping bombs to himself - Demanding Batman to run him over - Giving Harvey a loaded gun)

I think the moment that really shows just how twisted of a person he is, and answers why he's fine with dying, is towards the end. As he plummets to his death off the skyscraper, he laughs hysterically. Even though he's about to die, he doesn't care, he merely laughs at the fact that he's won, that he has gotten Batman to take a life, that he's finally corrupted what was supposed to be pure good. Very few people laugh as they face their death, it's just a testament to how deranged he truly is. For the Joker, death is merely a joke, as long as his death proves his points, he's more then fine with dying. He truly is an agent of chaos, and unstoppable force.

You explained that all perfectly, and I completely agree. However, I have not seen Batman yet, but I would like to - and I still know that Heath's Joker will always be my favourite character. Not just my favourite Joker, but my favourite character.

I also think one of the great things about TDK Joker is how captivating he is. As soon as he is on screen you just can't look away. You just want to hear what he has to say. And everything he says, while really dark, is also entirely true.

 

[Godzilla2014]

You explained that all perfectly, and I completely agree. However, I have not seen Batman yet, but I would like to - and I still know that Heath's Joker will always be my favourite character. Not just my favourite Joker, but my favourite character.

I also think one of the great things about TDK Joker is how captivating he is. As soon as he is on screen you just can't look away. You just want to hear what he has to say. And everything he says, while really dark, is also entirely true.

You haven't seen Tim Burton's Batman yet? I thought that was a basic requirement to call yourself a Batman fan?

 

[HisMagicTrick]

You haven't seen Tim Burton's Batman yet? I thought that was a basic requirement to call yourself a Batman fan?

Haha I know, I'm terrible! I'm just waiting for it to play on TV, which it never seems to, and I don't know whether I'll think it's good enough to actually buy on DVD.

 

[Ryan]

Alot of it for me had to do with the look. Probably Nicholson's Joker is more in line with comic tradition, or at least what we think of when we think of the joker. Apparently heath's was based more on the original incarnation of the joker. No idea, I"m not that familiar with the early age comics. I just simply could not warm up to the idea of a middle aged, slightly overweight joker. I really enjoyed the edgy, grimy look that nolan gave his joker and how dangerous he appeared on screen. Despite the Oscar, I really don't think either performance has totally captured the essence of the joker. I had really hoped to see Heath again in tdkr to maybe flesh out the character a bit more, maybe add some more gimmicks.

 

[The Joker]

Several reasons for me:

- First I think Heath gave a more impressive performance. I loved Jack but I knew I was looking at Jack in a Joker costume. Heath changed everything about himself. His voice, his mannerisms. The guy spent a month in a hotel room perfecting his Joker persona and it paid off. He was unrecognizable on screen. I was only looking at the Joker and not Heath.
- He was more menacing. That video where he terrorizes the copycat Batman alone felt more menacing and psychotic to me than anything Jack did. It was just so raw and vicious. "LOOK AT ME!!!!".
- His relationship with Batman was much more interesting. The Joker was simply obsessed with Batman because he was another 'freak' like him. He found Batman so much fun to toy with to the point where he would protect his secret identity from being leaked to Gotham because he found a world without Batman "sooooo boring".
- The mysterious background. I love how Joker was a total mystery to everyone, including us viewers of the movie. It added to his menacing aura.

 

[akfj]

To me, I think he just feels like more of a threat, in his personality, in his look, and in his actions.

 

[CConn]

Haha I know, I'm terrible! I'm just waiting for it to play on TV, which it never seems to, and I don't know whether I'll think it's good enough to actually buy on DVD.

If you don't think it's good enough to own, you don't deserve to have the money you'll use to purchase it anyway.

 

[El Payaso]

More than the differences I am always amazed at the similarities between both that so many seem to overlook.

You haven't seen Tim Burton's Batman yet? I thought that was a basic requirement to call yourself a Batman fan?

Or to compare both Jokers.

 

[DarthDaveBanner]

Both are brilliant but I'll give it to Ledger as the script gave him an opportunity to better explore the Batman/Joker relationship.

"Without Batman, crime has no punchline..."

 

[Godzilla2014]

Several reasons for me:

- First I think Heath gave a more impressive performance. I loved Jack but I knew I was looking at Jack in a Joker costume. Heath changed everything about himself. His voice, his mannerisms. The guy spent a month in a hotel room perfecting his Joker persona and it paid off. He was unrecognizable on screen. I was only looking at the Joker and not Heath.
- He was more menacing. That video where he terrorizes the copycat Batman alone felt more menacing and psychotic to me than anything Jack did. It was just so raw and vicious. "LOOK AT ME!!!!".
- His relationship with Batman was much more interesting. The Joker was simply obsessed with Batman because he was another 'freak' like him. He found Batman so much fun to toy with to the point where he would protect his secret identity from being leaked to Gotham because he found a world without Batman "sooooo boring".
- The mysterious background. I love how Joker was a total mystery to everyone, including us viewers of the movie. It added to his menacing aura.

My thoughts exactly! I love the dynamic between Christian Bale's Batman and Heath Ledger's Joker. They play off each other excellently and harmonize in the way that a hero and villain should.

 

[HisMagicTrick]

If you don't think it's good enough to own, you don't deserve to have the money you'll use to purchase it anyway.

I haven't even seen it yet.

 

[HisMagicTrick]

If you don't think it's good enough to own, you don't deserve to have the money you'll use to purchase it anyway.

Ugh, ignore my last comment, I misunderstood what you said.

 

[the_wolf_nears]

Haha I know, I'm terrible! I'm just waiting for it to play on TV, which it never seems to, and I don't know whether I'll think it's good enough to actually buy on DVD.

Try Netflix, if you have or know of someone who has an instant streaming account, last I saw it was there to watch instantly.

'89 Batman brings back all my childhood memories of that movie.

I thought Batman Returns was good as a kid, but seeing it recently, it just seemed like it sorta dragged on, but Michelle Pfeiffer as Catwoman was pretty damn good.

But I still like 1989's Batman. The score was good, the writing was good, even some pretty awesome one-liners like "Have you ever danced with the devil, in the pale moonlight?"

Great movie. If you wanna go really REALLY far back, the movie serial from 1943 was good. Not at all dark as Batman should be, but a decent job was done nonetheless.

On topic, The Dark Knight's Joker is my favorite, hands down.

Would go into further detail, but the above poster had my exact thoughts and I couldn't say it better myself.

 

[QueenChaos]

What about Cesar Romero?
His is a film-adapted Joker too, ya know.

 

[Fake Hero]

I thought Jack nailed the Joker. Heath was a good villain, but he didn't really seem like the Joker to me.

Joker is the Clown Prince of Crime, and Heath didn't really seem to embrace that side of the character. The pencil trick was the closest thing.

Jack brought the humor of the Joker to life, with out coming off as too campy. Scenes like

"You are a vicious bastard Rotelli, and... I'm glad your dead"

"The pen is truly mightier than the sword"

"You wouldn't hit a guy with glasses"

all screamed classic Joker to me.

Joker is supposed to be menacing and scary, but at the same time, a little wacky. I thought Heath was little too much on the psycho scary side, and didn't have enough of the Joker's humor.

Batman '89 had some issues, but I thought that the way they portrayed the Joker was the perfect balance of homicidal maniac, and clown.

 

[Ryan]

I think its always hard to comment on which joker is more in sync with the comic joker. Surely Azzarello's joker is much different then morrison's, which is different then loeb's or o'neils or even kane's. I believe each performance has its merit and again it comes down to personal taste rather then what is the most accurate protrayal. I still love Ceasar Romero's version for what its worth.

 

[El Payaso]

What about Cesar Romero?
His is a film-adapted Joker too, ya know.

1) He wasn't included in then thread's title.
2) His moustache would crash both Nicholson's and Ledger's performances so fast that any debate would become meaningles.

 

[GothamAlleys]

I think its always hard to comment on which joker is more in sync with the comic joker. Surely Azzarello's joker is much different then morrison's, which is different then loeb's or o'neils or even kane's. I believe each performance has its merit and again it comes down to personal taste rather then what is the most accurate protrayal.

AMEN. And that is realy the truth. Some time ago I was trying to prove and be sure which Joker is more accurate and read EVERY Batman and Detective Comics with Joker ever released in Golden, Bronze and Modern Age. And the conclusion is basically what you said. For example (one of millions), lets take Joker falling to his death at the end of the movie, laughing. Joker was falling to his death several times, and the Golden Age Joker was terrified and frantic - as the 89 Joker (who was based on Golden primarily with elements of Bronze). But the Bronze Age version, which, aside from Modern Age, was the blueprint for Heath, was laughing on the way down. So there you go. Im not much familliar with Cesar, as I was never a fan of the TV show (but I respect it) and for other reasons than tastes, but Nicholson is nearly a mirror image of Golden Age Joker with elements of O'Neil's version and Heath personality wise is nearly a mirror image of the Modern Age Joker

To see those traits, check Joker's entire detailed history at http://gothamalleys.blogspot.com/2010/09/complete-history-of-joker.html or in the related articles such as Comic influences on the movies and Batman/Joker relationship, and also for Heath centered spotlight check http://jokerfans.blogspot.com/2011/03/heath-ledgers-joker-comic-book-to-movie.html

 

[Fudgie]

I like him better than Nicholson's because Heath did a better acting job, was scarier, funnier, and more memorable. He captured everything about the Joker that I love. He made a Joker persona. Nicholson just felt like Nicholson to me.

 

[Godzilla2014]

I thought Jack nailed the Joker. Heath was a good villain, but he didn't really seem like the Joker to me.

Joker is the Clown Prince of Crime, and Heath didn't really seem to embrace that side of the character. The pencil trick was the closest thing.

Jack brought the humor of the Joker to life, with out coming off as too campy. Scenes like

"You are a vicious bastard Rotelli, and... I'm glad your dead"

"The pen is truly mightier than the sword"

"You wouldn't hit a guy with glasses"

all screamed classic Joker to me.

Joker is supposed to be menacing and scary, but at the same time, a little wacky. I thought Heath was little too much on the psycho scary side, and didn't have enough of the Joker's humor.

Batman '89 had some issues, but I thought that the way they portrayed the Joker was the perfect balance of homicidal maniac, and clown.

For me, Heath Ledger's portrayal of the Joker succeeds in capturing key points of the Joker in the comics. He is a notorious liar and manipulates people by getting under their skin. He doesn't tell jokes, but he sees things like "law and order" as cruel jokes, a facade held up by denial of an awful truth. That's a big part of my favorite Joker stories, like in The Killing Joke.

I think its always hard to comment on which joker is more in sync with the comic joker. Surely Azzarello's joker is much different then morrison's, which is different then loeb's or o'neils or even kane's. I believe each performance has its merit and again it comes down to personal taste rather then what is the most accurate protrayal. I still love Ceasar Romero's version for what its worth.

Agreed. Both Jack Nicholson's Joker and Heath Ledger's Joker are based on the comics, but different comics and incarnations therein.

 

[Frontier]

It's like the man said.

"You've changed things. Forever."

Heath took a well established character, whom in truth was always more of a caricature whenever portrayed outside of the comics, and brought to life something beyond unique and game-changing.

For the first time, I was actually scared of what he might do next. For the first time, you got the sense of a complete psychotic, yet at the same time, someone very calculating and cunning. Organized chaos. Something unpredictable. And best yet, he wasn't a giggling walking pun.

Don't get me wrong, there are other good jokers. Mark Hamill's from the Animated Series was quite good. But did he really ever scare anybody? Did Jack Nicholson? Or the campy 60s farce?

Heath made the Joker truly frightening.

Nicholson was just Jack Nicholson in white make-up and a purple suit, dancing around like an idiot. Which was what that film needed; it was perfect for it's day. But it falls very flat within a few years.

Likewise, the main point I always make for Heath's Joker: in every film or show, every role, for every actor, you at some brief moment, see the actor beneath. You see through them, their talent, their work, and you see the actor do something familiar. In the entirety of The Dark Knight? I never saw Heath Ledger. Not once. It's something truly special, to never see through their work. It takes a lot...

Everyone else, great as they are? I saw Michael Caine at points, rather than Alfred. Same with Bale, so on. I never once saw Heath Ledger in the entire film. Only the Joker.