Fox’s X-Men Universe Has Come to An End: Will You Miss It?

[CaptainWagner]

Hey at least the MCU gives their characters shine. You tell me when the last time Foxverse Storm, Rogue, Nightcrawler or Cyclops got the same level of dialogue like Cap, Captain Marvel, Rocket or Thor and I'll give you an Infinity Stone.

This is what I am most excited for. Fox had some of the greatest characters in comics and after two decades of movies, Joe Public can still really only recognize Wolverine, Magneto, Professor X and Deadpool. MAYBE Mystique if we're lucky. Whoever the team lineup is, we're guaranteed to finally see a solid lineup of heroes finally hit the big time the way they deserved to all along.

 

[Marvel united]

This is what I am most excited for. Fox had some of the greatest characters in comics and after two decades of movies, Joe Public can still really only recognize Wolverine, Magneto, Professor X and Deadpool. MAYBE Mystique if we're lucky. Whoever the team lineup is, we're guaranteed to finally see a solid lineup of heroes finally hit the big time the way they deserved to all along.

The thing I think people miss when we talk about the centering of Logan in these films, is the context. Singed decided to make the first X-Men film not about the X-Men, but about mutants in general. Logan is the POV/protagonist who is introduced to, and grows through this conflict that is happening between two mutant factions. In 1999, this was the safest way to make an X-Men film.

I can't really blame Singer for building on that foundation for X2, and Ratner/Kinberg for completing Wolverine's arc in X3 and bringing that conflict to it's natural conclusion. For as much flack as we give those films, at least we were invested in the conflict and (some) of the characters. How the OT played out was just a natural byproduct of how Singer chose to introduce us to that world.

X-Men: First Class was a fresh start and an opportunity to shift the narrative focus to the X-Men. That movie was about the origins/beginnings of the conflict. A beautiful film. The sky was the limit for how they could've continued that story... But Singer/Kinberg came back and once again shifted the narrative focus back to the mutant race as a whole.

Everything went downhill from there.

 

[Lip]

X-Men: First Class was a fresh start and an opportunity to shift the narrative focus to the X-Men.

I think FC was a "mistake" too, and I'm not talking about its quality, but the vision and the path they took.

I think making FC a prequel instead of a full reboot was already a mistake. You can argue that fully rebooting could be a risk but they had an entire different cast and the challenge to make the audience root for a new version of this characters. So why not fully new?

FC also started this messy timeline, with "minor" things like building Cerebro, to bigger things like Raven and Charles being siblings, but having virtually no interaction in the OT. And that timeline got progressively worse movie by movie, since it wasn't fixed in DoFP.

Last but not least, FC also shows which characters they have faith and which ones they do not. What you said about Singer making Logan the lead in the OT can be said about Eric, Charles and Raven in first class. So what I'm trying to say is that the movie might be good and all, but the vision and the path was already "wrong", and it wasn't going to be much different from what it turned out to be.

 

[Frodo]

In terms of the topic of the thread, no , I won't miss Fox's X Men. It has its place in CBM history and in geek culture , and the first two X Men films are among the best in the genre in addition to The Wolverine, Deadpool, and XMDOFP.

It had a pretty long run, so its not as if it was cut short.

Like Superman, Batman, Spiderman , etc, I feel the X Men film franchise should get a fresh pair of eyes handling it for each new generation.

I have confidence the MCU will bring a fresh coat of paint to their versions of the Mutants and their myths, and I have faith they'll give us something good.

So while the Fox X Men films are going to be remembered and discussed for years to come, its time to start over with something new.

 

[Lip]

Also, I have to say, I see people expressing concern about the X-Men being "formulaic" in the MCU, while FOX were willing to take certain risks. I certainly understand that criticism about the MCU and I honestly don't see them doing a Logan type of movie (although they seem to be interested in shaking things up a bit). But FOX's X-Men played with the same storybeats ad nauseum for 20 years. Isn't that formulaic?

 

[ironwez20]

In the early 00s it was amazing but then it got tired after first class. The mutants always felt held back and you never got to see them work as full fledge team. The Xmen roster was always the villains for some odd reason in apoc and wolverine and mystique were always front and center. So I’m glad it’s done. After first class I got burnt out and wanted something fresh. I think logan was the only thing that pulled me back in and deadpool didn’t feel like a fox verse film.
So I’m happy for the first couple Xmen films and Logan but fox never truly embraced the potential of the property

 

[Marvel united]

I think FC was a "mistake" too, and I'm not talking about its quality, but the vision and the path they took.

I think making FC a prequel instead of a full reboot was already a mistake. You can argue that fully rebooting could be a risk but they had an entire different cast and the challenge to make the audience root for a new version of this characters. So why not fully new?

FC also started this messy timeline, with "minor" things like building Cerebro, to bigger things like Raven and Charles being siblings, but having virtually no interaction in the OT. And that timeline got progressively worse movie by movie, since it wasn't fixed in DoFP.

Last but not least, FC also shows which characters they have faith and which ones they do not. What you said about Singer making Logan the lead in the OT can be said about Eric, Charles and Raven in first class. So what I'm trying to say is that the movie might be good and all, but the vision and the path was already "wrong", and it wasn't going to be much different from what it turned out to be.

FC ended that way because it was originally X-Men Options: Magneto. After Wolverine's attempt failed, Fox had Singer come up with a treatment and hire Zack Stentz to retool that script into a soft reboot X-Men film. Now, why couldn't they just do a full reboot from the first pass? I have no clue. But there are enough contradictions to the OT as you mentioned, that you can treat it as one in head canon

Tbh I didn't have a problem with them as the leads in FC. Vaughn knew that for particular film, he had a story to tell with Charles, Erik and Raven. And by god did he tell it amazingly well. When Singer came back, he essentially wiped the board clean on those characters; regressing their development to justify the story for DOFP. That was the start of Fox's decline.

Singer doing Apocalypse with another "X-Men becoming" story almost seemed like he was trying to do his own "First Class". He failed imo

 

[metaphysician]

To miss he "Fox X-Men Universe" would require that to be a singular thing to be missed in the first place. Given that it wasn't, well, that answers that.

I'll be honest, I will miss the "Deadpool U", assuming it doesn't get incorporated wholesale. I'll miss a few specific performances. But the overall setting and story, in its variations? Nope.

 

[EnDz0n3]

FC ended that way because it was originally X-Men Options: Magneto. After Wolverine's attempt failed, Fox had Singer come up with a treatment and hire Zack Stentz to retool that script into a soft reboot X-Men film. Now, why couldn't they just do a full reboot from the first pass? I have no clue. But there are enough contradictions to the OT as you mentioned, that you can treat it as one in head canon

Tbh I didn't have a problem with them as the leads in FC. Vaughn knew that for particular film, he had a story to tell with Charles, Erik and Raven. And by god did he tell it amazingly well. When Singer came back, he essentially wiped the board clean on those characters; regressing their development to justify the story for DOFP. That was the start of Fox's decline.

Singer doing Apocalypse with another "X-Men becoming" story almost seemed like he was trying to do his own "First Class". He failed imo

Isn’t the narrative that Vaughn was (heavily?) involved in the DOFP script?

So your constant blaming of Singer of that film’s apparent failures, vs First Class’ supposed wins, really are Vaughn’s failures too.

And this is your 100th reminder that Vaughn’s DOFP scriptment would also have decade-hopped, starring a brand new, continuity-busting Wolverine ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Lip]

FC ended that way because it was originally X-Men Options: Magneto. After Wolverine's attempt failed, Fox had Singer come up with a treatment and hire Zack Stentz to retool that script into a soft reboot X-Men film. Now, why couldn't they just do a full reboot from the first pass? I have no clue. But there are enough contradictions to the OT as you mentioned, that you can treat it as one in head canon

Tbh I didn't have a problem with them as the leads in FC. Vaughn knew that for particular film, he had a story to tell with Charles, Erik and Raven. And by god did he tell it amazingly well. When Singer came back, he essentially wiped the board clean on those characters; regressing their development to justify the story for DOFP. That was the start of Fox's decline.

Singer doing Apocalypse with another "X-Men becoming" story almost seemed like he was trying to do his own "First Class". He failed imo

I love both Eric and Charles, and I loved what they did in FC. What I feel like it was wrong with their vision was a refusal to change, and which characters they trust.

Eric and Charles were already major focus in the OT. As far as I know they added the cure plot in TLS to give Eric a proper arc. And even changing what was supposed to be an Eric movie to an X-Men movies are some of the things that shows an unwilling to let go of their previous vision and trust other characters to lead the story.

If they didn't want to fully reboot and do a prequel instead, there's a number of ways they could've done that. They could have set the story in the 80s or 90s and focus on younger versions of Scott, Jean and Ororo, with other characters joining the team like Beast, Banshee, Alex, Lorna, Sunfire, Thunderbird...

The decision to set the story in the 60s (a time their versions of iconic X-Men weren't born yet in that timeline), and focus on Charles and Eric, is a creative decision connected to which characters they trust and a refusal to change their vision to focus on different characters and different storybeats rather than the ideological conflicts we had seen before.

 

[Airwings]

Foxverse X-Men lacks stuff, yes. It pales compared to MCU.
We can complain a lot about those films but they were actually groundbreaking.

OT gave us the first "comic book superhero team" and proved such a thing can work, and result in good films.
I think the first FC prequel should be included in this because it was out before Avengers.
And not the least, theese films showed us the cast could be interesting too, even the choice of directors (Singer, Vaughn).
There weren't anything else that did the same.

The 00s Fantastic Four didn't do the same. Rather the opposite. With FF, it seemed that team films don't work and will only result in junk.
To acchieve what X-Men did, the people behind must take CBMs seriously
Not treat it is as a joke or a thing for children. Like FF.

After FC, we got DOFP. It did compete against the Avengers films.
Fox could hold their own aganist MCU, if only for a little while.
The decline started with Apocalypse. They couldn't keep up with Marvel Studios anymore and it started to show.
But it's not the bad mess of a film most people claim it is. It's decent, it has some good moments, it brought a new cast, and the film would have been held in higher regard if it wasn't for MCU.
The real stinker is Dark Phoenix. It's like they didn't care to try. It was meant to be the last one anyway.

 

[FlareKnight]

I'll kind of miss it. There were some good moments in there. I enjoyed the first couple movies quite a bit. And while Logan would an issue to have as anything more than a one-off (let's just kill everybody) it was a good movie.

But I am curious to see what the X-Men can be within the MCU. Might get to see some things we lost out on during the Fox era. Things like Rogue actually getting to be awesome. Luckily we've got a Captain Marvel laying around...

But seriously there are plenty of things we could see that we missed out on. Cyclops was painfully underutilized because it always had to be the Wolverine show. And it will be interesting to see how they get incorporated into things. While it is too bad to mostly lose the known factor of the Fox X-Men (although Deadpool should be entirely unchanged) the potential is up there.

 

[SumT]

Eric and Charles were already major focus in the OT. As far as I know they added the cure plot in TLS to give Eric a proper arc. And even changing what was supposed to be an Eric movie to an X-Men movies are some of the things that shows an unwilling to let go of their previous vision and trust other characters to lead the story.

If they didn't want to fully reboot and do a prequel instead, there's a number of ways they could've done that. They could have set the story in the 80s or 90s and focus on younger versions of Scott, Jean and Ororo, with other characters joining the team like Beast, Banshee, Alex, Lorna, Sunfire, Thunderbird...

The decision to set the story in the 60s (a time their versions of iconic X-Men weren't born yet in that timeline), and focus on Charles and Eric, is a creative decision connected to which characters they trust and a refusal to change their vision to focus on different characters and different storybeats rather than the ideological conflicts we had seen before.

you explained it perfectly with your whole comment.

I just wanted to add, as a reply to the bold part, that the only reason they didnt do a prequel set in the 80s with the X-Men is simply............. because they didnt care about them.
and that mindset, mon ami and mes amis, stayed until Dark Phoenix. Singer in, or Singer out.
Kinberg got more power movie after movie, and once he took all control (production, writing & direction), he still didnt care about them.

In resume: none of the directors signed for the job really cared about the X-Men.
the fact that even today some fans dont see it is mindblowing to me.

 

[Marvel united]

Isn’t the narrative that Vaughn was (heavily?) involved in the DOFP script?

So your constant blaming of Singer of that film’s apparent failures, vs First Class’ supposed wins, really are Vaughn’s failures too.

And this is your 100th reminder that Vaughn’s DOFP scriptment would also have decade-hopped, starring a brand new, continuity-busting Wolverine ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Vaughn didn't want to do DOFP until X-Men 3. He wanted that story to have the proper buildup and weight behind so his audience would be invested in such an emotional rollercoaster of conflict.

I know Vaughn said that but that doesnt mean we can't speculate on what he would've done if he had full control and full ability to tell the type of story he wanted to tell.

I love both Eric and Charles, and I loved what they did in FC. What I feel like it was wrong with their vision was a refusal to change, and which characters they trust.

Eric and Charles were already major focus in the OT. As far as I know they added the cure plot in TLS to give Eric a proper arc. And even changing what was supposed to be an Eric movie to an X-Men movies are some of the things that shows an unwilling to let go of their previous vision and trust other characters to lead the story.

If they didn't want to fully reboot and do a prequel instead, there's a number of ways they could've done that. They could have set the story in the 80s or 90s and focus on younger versions of Scott, Jean and Ororo, with other characters joining the team like Beast, Banshee, Alex, Lorna, Sunfire, Thunderbird...

The decision to set the story in the 60s (a time their versions of iconic X-Men weren't born yet in that timeline), and focus on Charles and Eric, is a creative decision connected to which characters they trust and a refusal to change their vision to focus on different characters and different storybeats rather than the ideological conflicts we had seen before.

I understand your issues with the film, or, the broader context of the film's choices. They could have approached some things differently, I agree. But, the movie does what it set out to do, and it does it with such finesse, and pathos, and range, and power (The script is so tightly written and precise, and yet it never misses a beat in any of it's power points of emotion or meaning). And that was to tell the origin of X. For me, First Class is as much an origin for the X-Men, as it is for Xavier. The formation and development of the team is intrinsically to Xavier's development in the film. Charles IS the X-Men. He lives through them; he finds purpose through his students. By the end of the film, Xavier now knows how best to use his gifts and that is to help others realize theirs. The school, the X-Men.. All embody this.

First Class is an origin for the idea/concept of the X-Men, and how it comes to be as a whole. IMO this is an acceptable way to tell the story, because naturally, the X-Men begin with Xavier. And Magneto is an important part of this because he helps define what the X-Men's core ideological groundings are; what their fight is. The climax of FC perfectly showcases this with the fight between Xavier and Erik. It forces Xavier to act and define what he stands for in juxtaposition to Erik, who stands for the complete opposite. It's a battle/power struggle between two warring ideals, and the ideologue that defines the X-Men is defined through this scene: Fighting for a WORLD ("Americans, Soviets, humans.) that hates & fears you (united in their fear of the unknown.")

First Class is an amazing film. It's hard for me to fault Vaughn or anyone else involved for their creative choices when the story was told so well. It set a beautiful foundation for future X-Men films to build on..

And well, we all know what happened after that.

 

[The Batman]

It's hard to miss something that's already long gone. The Fox-Men that people actually cared about ended in 2014.

Wolverine and Professor X got their own special sendoffs in 2017, but "Logan" is apparently meant to be an alternate universe.

Apocalypse and Dark Phoenix are basically Fox's version of the Amazing Spider-Man films: a half assed reboot series.

Deadpool, IMO, is it's own universe.

 

[psylockolussus]

eXactly!

 

[EnDz0n3]

Vaughn didn't want to do DOFP until X-Men 3. He wanted that story to have the proper buildup and weight behind so his audience would be invested in such an emotional rollercoaster of conflict.

Yea because general audiences and critics alike absolutely LOATHED the DOFP that we got. Oh wait...

I know Vaughn said that but that doesnt mean we can't speculate on what he would've done if he had full control and full ability to tell the type of story he wanted to tell.

Ok I'll bite. Vaughn returns to direct his sequel to FC. Everyone from his original film comes back. The only "new" face is Wolverine. Played by Tom Hardy (for some reason). Set a decade later. All of this he's been on record as saying was part of his plans.

Say his sequel does well and Fox allows him to do a third movie, his Days of Future Past. Tom Hardy returns to play Wolverine? Who plays the older Xavier, Magneto, Storm, Iceman, Rogue, Kitty, Colossus, etc? Do Stewart, McKellen, Berry, Ashmore, Paquin, Page, Cudmore, etc return? Wait, but why? And if they don't return, where's the emotional investment?

Yea, this is dumb. Almost as dumb as making Mystique Xavier's sister.

 

[Marvel united]

Yea because general audiences and critics alike absolutely LOATHED the DOFP that we got. Oh wait...

Ok I'll bite. Vaughn returns to direct his sequel to FC. Everyone from his original film comes back. The only "new" face is Wolverine. Played by Tom Hardy (for some reason). Set a decade later. All of this he's been on record as saying was part of his plans.

Say his sequel does well and Fox allows him to do a third movie, his Days of Future Past. Tom Hardy returns to play Wolverine? Who plays the older Xavier, Magneto, Storm, Iceman, Rogue, Kitty, Colossus, etc? Do Stewart, McKellen, Berry, Ashmore, Paquin, Page, Cudmore, etc return? Wait, but why? And if they don't return, where's the emotional investment?

Yea, this is dumb. Almost as dumb as making Mystique Xavier's sister.

Yes, I realize that. But who knows what would've changed in between the planning stage and pen to paper. But even then, that's understandable. Vaughn wanted to continue evolving the characters he created for the first film; the characters people were invested in, which leads to DOFP
-
I assume that the OT cast would have not returned in Vaughn's version, and would have instead featured future versions of the FC characters i.e the characters he spent 2 films developing. That would be the emotional investment... Since audiences would be invested in those characters by the third film.

At least Vaughn had a plan. Singer & Kinberg google "most popular X-Men stories", and then write the first 3 results down in their notes app.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Fox was extremely inconsistent quality wise with lots of really bad movies scattered throughout. And even the better movies haven't aged that well.

Plus Deadpool will be moving to MCU.

So no, I win't miss Fox's version. It's ran its course.

 

[Neil McCauley]

I don't think so, they had some good films but were a bit inconsistent (Like DCEU).

Besides Logan, it seems that they can't release a single good ending.

New Mutants, X3 and Dark Phoenix were mediocre, Origins and Deadpool 2 were meh.

I liked X1, X2, Deadpool, Logan, a bit of The Wolverine.

Haven't seen the "beginning" trilogy since years and need to rewatch it.

 

[KetchBlazeAgain]

Today, on August 28th 2020, marks the final release of Fox’s 20 year run with the X-Men: New Mutants. It’s getting at best middling reviews like Dark Phoenix and other installments in franchise before it but even though ultimately the Fox Marvel franchise ended on a whimper you can’t take away from the fact that Fox still gave us beloved comic book movies like X-Men, X2, and the fan-favorite First Class, DP and Logan. There were never as popular as their other superhero franchise brethren like Spider-Man, and of course the biggest of them all: the MCU, but they held their own fairly well against the competition.

They made comic book movies with a lot more edge than what their rivals at Marvel Disney would make like the aforementioned Deadpool with its unabashed raunchiness, or Logan with its grim violence. They were willing to push the envelope in ways the MCU wouldn’t, and it can’t be overstated how instrumental the franchise was at kickstarting the modern wave of superhero movies.

It bares pointing out, that Singer’s X-Men was the first Marvel comics film adaption to be both a critical success and a commercial hit. Sure, Blade came out but remember Blade was not a critically well-received despite the fan reception being mostly positive. The X-Men franchise was the first superhero film of the new century to be a hit on both sides. Without it, we’d likely wouldn’t have the MCU. Were there flaws in franchise? Yeah. Much has been made about issues like Wolverine constantly overshadowing most of the other members of team while key characters like Cyclops and Storm got shafted, the repetitious storylines with Magneto, lack of proper POC representation,

Yet despite those were very real flaws, I still think the franchise has done just as much for the genre as it’s way more popular cousin the MCU(if not more so).

Even though I’m sad that the series has come to an end, I’m excited for the Mutants inevitable future in the MCU. Despite my sadness in knowing the franchise ends here, I’ll always be thankful for the bumpy ride to get to the end and it’s the end of an era.

To quote Dr. Seuss, ”Don’t cry because it’s over. Smile because it happened.” Yeah, goodbye Fox-Men. It’s been a bumpy ride, but it’s been a fun bumpy ride for sure, and you will be missed by me and many others.

 

[KetchBlazeAgain]

The X-men franchise has been a mess from the first film. I say let it die and stay that way.

 

[SumT]

I assume that the OT cast would have not returned in Vaughn's version, and would have instead featured future versions of the FC characters i.e the characters he spent 2 films developing. That would be the emotional investment... Since audiences would be invested in those characters by the third film.

At least Vaughn had a plan. Singer & Kinberg google "most popular X-Men stories", and then write the first 3 results down in their notes app.

so basically another movie without the X-Men we all know and expect? and not only that but if so, three consecutive movies without the core X-Men??

is that what you are deffending as the right move? three prequels without Cyclops, Jean, Storm, Rogue, Iceman, Nightcrawler and co? so 3 'X-Men' movies without... the actual X-Men?

that was the right approach to this franchise to you?

 

[EnDz0n3]

Yes, I realize that. But who knows what would've changed in between the planning stage and pen to paper. But even then, that's understandable. Vaughn wanted to continue evolving the characters he created for the first film; the characters people were invested in, which leads to DOFP
-
I assume that the OT cast would have not returned in Vaughn's version, and would have instead featured future versions of the FC characters i.e the characters he spent 2 films developing. That would be the emotional investment... Since audiences would be invested in those characters by the third film.

At least Vaughn had a plan. Singer & Kinberg google "most popular X-Men stories", and then write the first 3 results down in their notes app.

You lost me at Havok, Banshee, Fly girl, Red Nightcrawler and Enrique Iglesias as "characters people were invested in."

 

[Marvel united]

You lost me at Havok, Banshee, Fly girl, Red Nightcrawler and Enrique Iglesias as "characters people were invested in."

Right?? It's almost as crazy as people being invested in a red jacket Han Solo, a Raccoon, a tree, a green alien and an ex WWE wrestler

Wait...