Game of Thrones - Book Readers' Thread - Part 18

[iamlegend]

Oh, we know that's the current scenario suggested as her course of action. But the Martell's still maintain a largely cautious and slow-moving offense in the Game of Thrones, and there's a rather black(fyre) stench to the Forgotten/Piss-Water Prince. If Arianne has developed into her father's daughter as suggested by her plotline from before, she might beg off a quick marriage since she's aware of the actual Targareyan dragons in Essos and the unlikelihood of both Targs being allied together.

And where the Martells are slow and steady, the Tyrells are anything but. And Margaery has a streak to maintain in husbands. Plus, Dorne has a history of grater autonomy and a preference for decentralized power like the North as opposed to the central powers of the Reach and Westelands.

Eh, I don't know. The WoW preview chapters that have been released featuring Arianne certainly seem to suggest she's just as naive and misguided as she was before she was let in on her father's plan. The only difference now being that she's in on it.

 

[Ramsay Snow]

Israel scouted as possible location for Season 5

http://winteriscoming.net/2014/07/0...ssible-location-for-game-of-thrones-season-5/

 

[godisawesome]

Anyone else hoping they both speed up the wait on the Battle for Winterfell and keep the ambiguous cliffhanger ending from ADWD? Considering the pace of some of the book plotlines and the show's counterparts to them (the Boltons already have Winterfell, while Jon and Stannis are still not done with their whole ASOS plotlines), I think they saved up some sequences to give the Stannis-Snow plotline some meat for an episode or two before the last king standing heads for Winterfell, and yet wanted to have the Boltons dug in at Winterfell so that Theon and the Northern Lords gathering would come sooner.

To me, there's too much potential in the Battle for it to not end up being an episode long confrontation like Blackwater and Watchers on the Wall. It's another "Storm the castle" battle, but for once the defenders actually have the advantage in numbers and supplies, thanks to the Bolton tactical hegemony and political supremacy while winter begins in earnest. We've got a hated enemy in the Boltons while a somewhat unpopular protagonist like Stannis assaults once more and attempts to go 2 for 3 in the main battles. It also flips the war in the North either into "we have a unified front against the White Walkers now" or "we're totally boned; zombie horde at our front, mutiny in the Wtach, and Boltons coming for a reckoning on the Wall." It's one of the view conflicts in the last two books where the protagonists and antagonists are actually ready for open warfare while the rest of the story falls to chaos.

It's the perfect battle to build up all through Season Five, but also a battle that could use a full ten episode build up and an ambiguous teasing at the end of the season.

Imagine watching Stannis offer Snow the Stark name and bringing up Winterfell in episode one, him turning it down and hearing about an "Arya Stark" and being elected Lord Commander in episode two, Stannis sending Davos to the Manderlys and leaving to gather his forces in episode three, then we build slowly towards the fight through four perspectives (Boltons in Winterfell with Reek, Davos at the Manderly's, Stannis on the campaign, and. Jon at the Wall. Then episode 9 comes and our big event is... Lord Manderly's digging into this delicious meat pie at the wedding feast alongside his liege-lord's Frey friends.

Then episode ten has Reek escape with fake!Arya right before the battle, and we even see the initial sally by Frey forces. Then we leave Winterfell, focus on other events, establish that time has passed, and end with Jon receiving the Pink Letter while another character receives a contradictory report, perhaps in. Kings landing. Jon is stabbed, and we have someone like Sam notice the irregularities in the letter's report, and we tease the battle for a summer off and comeback to an episode-long throw down.

 

[Marvolo]

I expect the Battle of Mereen before the Battle of Winterfell just like in the books. So look for Battle of Mereen next season and the Battle of Winterfell in season 6.

 

[godisawesome]

That'd work! And if they played both battles as being built up, they wouldn't have to worry about keeping Mereen and the North popular with fans.

 

[Spidey-Bat]

I think either one next season is too early. I would expect the Battle of Winterfell earlier in the show since there's a lot less in the story for them to get through.

 

[Hyde]

To have the Battle of Meereen means they'd have to introduce the Sons of the Harpy, either bring back Xaro Xhoan Doxos or introduce another representative of Qarth, further the relationship between Dany/Daario, bring the Yunkai'i, Qarth and Astapor (I think) soldiers to the gates of Meereen and begin their seige, marry Dany and Hizdahr, have Tyrion meet Penny and Jorah and be sold into slavery and perform at Daznak's Pit with Dany promptly escaping on Drogon and Barristan arresting Hizdahr and taking control of the city roughly before... Episode 8. That's a hell of a lot of plot to cover in that time. I think the season will end with Dany flying away on Drogon's back. Plus then there's other potential factors like Victarion and Quentyn. There's no way we see the Battle of Meereen in Season 5.

However, Stannis can have easily left the Wall by around Episode 3, with the taking of Deepwood Motte happening in either the next episode or E05, Theon escaping Winterfell with Jeyne by E07 and Stannis arriving at Winterfell in E09 for the big battle. There does seem to be a pattern with the Episode 9's - Season 1's was a big moment/death, Season 2 was a battle, Season 3 was a big moment/death and Season 4 was a battle. So there's a chance Season 5 will be another big moment/death (the Ides of Marsh...) but I don't want the BoW and the BoM to be too close together.

 

[Spidey-Bat]

Looks like there's going to be a battle in the snow next season.

http://winteriscoming.net/2014/07/0...ning-to-iceland-for-limited-season-5-filming/

 

[Ramsay Snow]

Could even be another White Walker scene, I think.

 

[godisawesome]

A battle in the snow, and one planned for scenes in Iceland sounds like either the Wall or the Frey sally from tWoW. Seeing the Freys torn apart both in the North and the Riverlands would be a pretty sweet payoff for the audience.

P.S.- Anybody else like the idea of the map intro showing snow slowly covering the landscape?

 

[Hyde]

Before clicking on the link I thought it would be for the Battle of Winterfell, but if it was then they wouldn't be filming in Iceland. Hardhome perhaps? Maybe there'll be a scene of wildlings being attacked by the White Walkers.

 

[Iceman]

If it's season 5 of 7 I'd expect to see some White Walker action. If they are going to be a huge part of the final plot they need to start moving now rather than penultimate season.

 

[Victarion]

Before clicking on the link I thought it would be for the Battle of Winterfell, but if it was then they wouldn't be filming in Iceland. Hardhome perhaps? Maybe there'll be a scene of wildlings being attacked by the White Walkers.

Maybe. I wondered if Craster's wives wouldn't show up again at Hardhome.

 

[godisawesome]

Hardhome is one option, but we still know there's supposed to be a prelude conflict to the Battle for Winterfell with Frey forces sent out alongside the Manderlys to prevent bloodshed inside Winterfell itself.

I figure it's either tied to the Winterfell battle, or it's some kind of show original fight. Maybe some Wildlings refuse Stannis and Snow's offer only to run into the White Walkers and be destroyed. Maybe some Wildlings try a temporary rebellion and are put down. Maybe the mutiny on the Wall is shown as a full on Nights Watch Civil War.

 

[Marvolo]

I think either one next season is too early. I would expect the Battle of Winterfell earlier in the show since there's a lot less in the story for them to get through.

The show is only going to 7 seasons. One of those battles has to happen in season 5. Unless they short change one of them and put them both in season 6. And the idea of 2 whole episodes of a 10 episode season being taken up solely by battles isn't practical. It takes up too much valuable time. And putting one of these battles in season 7 would be too late imo.

There is the possibility that the battle of winterfell isn't a big battle or is over quickly. If someone is on the inside and the gates could be opened then the army could charge right in and make short work of the Boltons. If that happens then the show could simply have the gates open, in charges the army, and fade into smoke. Smoke begins to clear and it's someone walking over a corpse and the battle is over corpses lying everywhere Winterfell is reclaimed. If that's the case then they could have both events in the same season.

 

[Spidey-Bat]

That would be incredibly underwhelming. They could get away with it in season 1 by KO'ing Tyrion, but they can't do that after giving us Blackwater and Castle Black.

I wouldn't be surprised if they cut the Battle of Meereen entirely. As a book reader, I couldn't care less about it and it spares them from having to challenge viewers to remember names like Reznak Mo Reznak. The "battle" could just be Tyrion and Jorah convincing the Second Sons to turn and Victarion showing up with the Iron Fleet to further convince them all to surrender.

 

[Hyde]

I agree. Way more interested in the Battle of Winterfell and what the outcome of that will be; I finished ADWD last week and I'm still not entirely clear on what the hell they're all fighting for.

 

[Drz]

Glad to hear more news about where they will shoot, gives a better idea what season 5 is about. I guess the Daznak pit is the big episode 9 of season 5? Episode 10 could lead up to the Battle of Mereen and the Battle of Ice?

 

[Ramsay Snow]

This is all cool, but I can't wait for the confirmation of the Kingsmoot.

 

[NoLaNitE007]

To have the Battle of Meereen means they'd have to introduce the Sons of the Harpy, either bring back Xaro Xhoan Doxos or introduce another representative of Qarth, further the relationship between Dany/Daario, bring the Yunkai'i, Qarth and Astapor (I think) soldiers to the gates of Meereen and begin their seige, marry Dany and Hizdahr, have Tyrion meet Penny and Jorah and be sold into slavery and perform at Daznak's Pit with Dany promptly escaping on Drogon and Barristan arresting Hizdahr and taking control of the city roughly before... Episode 8. That's a hell of a lot of plot to cover in that time. I think the season will end with Dany flying away on Drogon's back. Plus then there's other potential factors like Victarion and Quentyn. There's no way we see the Battle of Meereen in Season 5.

However, Stannis can have easily left the Wall by around Episode 3, with the taking of Deepwood Motte happening in either the next episode or E05, Theon escaping Winterfell with Jeyne by E07 and Stannis arriving at Winterfell in E09 for the big battle. There does seem to be a pattern with the Episode 9's - Season 1's was a big moment/death, Season 2 was a battle, Season 3 was a big moment/death and Season 4 was a battle. So there's a chance Season 5 will be another big moment/death (the Ides of Marsh...) but I don't want the BoW and the BoM to be too close together.

Yes. Ep 9's will always be a big battle Episodes. Next season will be the battle of Winterfell most likely.

 

[NoLaNitE007]

A battle in the snow, and one planned for scenes in Iceland sounds like either the Wall or the Frey sally from tWoW. Seeing the Freys torn apart both in the North and the Riverlands would be a pretty sweet payoff for the audience.

P.S.- Anybody else like the idea of the map intro showing snow slowly covering the landscape?

Yup....and Yup to your P.S.

 

[NoLaNitE007]

Glad to hear more news about where they will shoot, gives a better idea what season 5 is about. I guess the Daznak pit is the big episode 9 of season 5? Episode 10 could lead up to the Battle of Mereen and the Battle of Ice?

I would think Battle of Winterfell for Ep 9 next season and Meereen Battle in Ep 9 in Season 6....

 

[Spidey-Bat]

Yes. Ep 9's will always be a big battle Episodes. Next season will be the battle of Winterfell most likely.

I would think Battle of Winterfell for Ep 9 next season and Meereen Battle in Ep 9 in Season 6....

The pattern is major death/major battle.

S1/E9 was Baelor where Ned is executed.
S2/E9 was Battle of the Blackwater.
S3/E9 was the Red Wedding (lots of muders).
S4/E9 was the Battle of Castle Black.

If they keep that pattern, the Battle of Winterfell would be another episode/season. There's no way they could do the Battle of Meereen at the end of season 6. It would be too late in the story and they haven't developed to it enough get there in season 5.

 

[Marvolo]

To have the Battle of Meereen means they'd have to introduce the Sons of the Harpy, either bring back Xaro Xhoan Doxos or introduce another representative of Qarth, further the relationship between Dany/Daario, bring the Yunkai'i, Qarth and Astapor (I think) soldiers to the gates of Meereen and begin their seige, marry Dany and Hizdahr, have Tyrion meet Penny and Jorah and be sold into slavery and perform at Daznak's Pit with Dany promptly escaping on Drogon and Barristan arresting Hizdahr and taking control of the city roughly before... Episode 8. That's a hell of a lot of plot to cover in that time. I think the season will end with Dany flying away on Drogon's back. Plus then there's other potential factors like Victarion and Quentyn. There's no way we see the Battle of Meereen in Season 5.

Remember, this show only has 30 episodes left. They don't have time for all the stuff you mentioned. Of the two battles Mereen is easiest to get to by episode 9 of season 5. They have already established that the Masters are taking back their cities and common sense says they are coming for Danny. That's all the establishing they need to have the Mereen battle next season. The Masters are coming for her. Just have freed cities continue to fall to the Masters next season and all season she is dealing with the city and the knowledge that the Masters and their army is coming to dethrone her. In Episode 9 a fleet and army rolls into Mereen and starts hammering it into dust. Have the Pit scene in Episode 8 so that Dany is away during Episode 9 until she flies back on Drogo. D&D can get to that battle next season. And Tyrions journey will probably be a lot more streamlined than in the book.

Spoiler

I figure he will be in Mereen by the end of next season. The slavery, Penny, the monotonous boat ride will all be cut. Somehow Jorah will fit into it all.

The Battle of Winterfell however just doesn't work next season. Stannis just got to the wall. Do you think the showrunners are going to have him turn around and leave at the beginning of season 5? I don't, and that's the number one reason I don't see the Battle of Winterfell fitting in next season. I figure Stannis will spend season 5 at the Wall most of the season dealing with Jon and Mance. Mel will be all up Jon's ass too. Then towards the end of the season Stannis will leave the Wall. And he will reach Winterfell in season 6.

 

[Hyde]

They'll have to do at least some of those things, because otherwise what the **** are these characters gonna do? Fans talk a lot and are scared about D&D cutting all these major character and storylines but without them we're just left to watch them sitting around or introducing pointless subplots which have no affect on the story as a whole (Grey Worm/Missandei, Yara/Dreadfort). From the way you wrote that it feels like you'd have Tyrion sold into slavery in like Episode 4. Then what? Serving the Yunkai'i for five episodes? No, I have no doubt that MOST of Tyrion's storyline from ADWD will make it's way into Season 5, just some of it will be streamlined and swapped around.

The Sons of the Harpy also serve to create intrigue inside the city and a good mystery for the audience; plus they further show how people are unhappy with Daenerys' rule. They can't just say it's all the Masters and then bring in some huge random fleet to attack. It's bad storytelling. The audience will get confused about who these people are, why they should care etc. If it's Yunkai outside the gates of Meereen and the ones attacking then the audience will care because they remember it from Season 3 and the fact that Daenerys sacked their city. It also goes to show them that there are consequences for being a "liberator" and even though we all thought she was doing the right thing at first, it's now come back to bite her in the ass.

Anyway, sure it's possible that they could do the Battle of Meereen for Season 5 but it would involve a lot of pointless streamlining just to have another epic battle, and to be hones the audience will just care more about the Battle of Winterfell. Everyone hates the Boltons and Freys and want to see some justice served, we get to see Stannis as a hero, and all the characters are fairly recognizable. Everyone involved in the Battle of Meereen save for Tyrion, Jorah and Barristan (although I doubt most of the audience really knows much about him except for "the old knight guy") is unrecognisable to the audience.