Game of Thrones - Book Readers' Thread - - - - - Part 22

[Reek]

Ah c'mon Reek! How is it you can believe in some weird ass prophecies but not Ned Stark's emotional journey?

How is it you believe Dany is the daughter of Lyanna Stark? Please... walk me through your delusions and tell me about how Tyrion smells like cabbage and has small hands.

 

[Drz]

Ned Stark never cared too deeply for Jon Snow and you can see Ned Stark's feverish dreams about Lyanna and his promise relate to Daenerys' danger and assination threat, alongside the fact that nothing about Daenerys' past that Viserys makes sense.

Where as R+L = J is only based on...... Because of a prophecy, come on now! It's pretty clear that Jon is Ashara and Brandon's bastard.

 

[CaptainCanada]

Ned Stark never cared too deeply for Jon Snow

Um, no.

Also, why would Jon being Brandon and Ashara's bastard mean that he would care less for him than if he were Lyanna's son? He'd be his nephew either way.

 

[Drz]

Um, no.

It's a static relationship, just like an Uncle and Nephew have.

Also, why would Jon being Brandon and Ashara's bastard mean that he would care less for him than if he were Lyanna's son? He'd be his nephew either way.

Ned's nightmares relate to Daenerys because of what's happening in King's Landing and to Daenerys.

Jon Snow is safe in Night's watch, if Ned was fearing he was failing to keep his promise, he would have done something relating to Jon's safety, but the nightmares keep him in King's Landing.

Also Ned hasn't thought about Rhaegar in years, but he starts thinking about him when he comes back to King's Landing. If R + L = J, why would Eddard not think about Jon's father?

Also Jon Snow being the prince who was promised, the azor ahai and the King of Westeros is just cliché Lord of the Rings stuff, but this aint Tolkien.

And that is why I dislike the theory, it's your typical power fantasy of zero to hero trope.

 

[CaptainCanada]

It's a static relationship, just like an Uncle and Nephew have.

...so? They're uncle and nephew.

Also Ned hasn't thought about Rhaegar in years

If you read the earlier Ned chapters, he has in fact been thinking about him. Conversely, he doesn't think about Ashara Dayne at all, nor Brandon in any such capacity.

Dany being Lyanna's daughter makes absolutely no sense. The rest of the castle garrison at Dragonstone would have known whether she was legit or not; Rhaella's pregnancy was not a secret. And how and why would she even have come into the Targaryens' possession?

 

[Drz]

...so? They're uncle and nephew.

The point i'm making is that Eddard's dreams about his promise to Lyanna have nothing to do with Jon Snow, because Jon is not Lyanna's child.

If you read the earlier Ned chapters, he has in fact been thinking about him.

""For the first time in years, he found himself remembering Rhaegar Targaryen." - chapter 35, Eddard IX

Conversely, he doesn't think about Ashara Dayne at all, nor Brandon in any such capacity.

"they whispered of ser Arthur Dayne... Ned had carried Ser Authur's sword back to the beautiful young sister" <-- this is when Eddard picks up Jon on his way back to Winterfell.

"Catelyn had asked her husband the truth of it, asked him to his face."

"Never ask me about Jon" - Ned <-- Catelyn asks about Ashara being the mother and Ned simply states he never once her to question anything about Jon, so again: the question was phrased on Ashara, but Ned starts talking about Jon, because Jon is Ashara's baby.

"from that day on, the whispering had stopped, and Ashara Dayne's name was never heard in Winterfall again."

chapter 6, Catelyn II.

Dany being Lyanna's daughter makes absolutely no sense.

?

The rest of the castle garrison at Dragonstone would have known whether she was legit or not; Rhaella's pregnancy was not a secret.

And your source is Viserys, one of the biggest worms out there. How do we know Daenerys was born at Dragonstone? Remember, the author has purposely made Robert's Rebellion timeline into a mess.

Viserys has weakened Daenerys claim to the Throne and made her his own asset.

Daenerys has foggy memories about the House with the red door and a lemon tree in Bravoos, but there are no lemon trees in Bravoos. It's a port city. It's a cold and windy treeless place:

"I'm chilled to the bones. Where are the bloody orange trees? I always heard there we're orange trees in the Free Cities. Lemons and Limes." - Mercy, TWoW

And let us remember, that Quathe keeps rambling about Daenerys remembering who she is.

Asshai holds the truth!

And how and why would she even have come into the Targaryens' possession?

Well again, we know nothing about Daenerys past except she lived in a peaceful house with flowers, green grass, lemons and a red door.

It would certainly involve Ned Stark and whoever Quathe is.

 

[CaptainCanada]

""For the first time in years, he found himself remembering Rhaegar Targaryen." - chapter 35, Eddard IX

Yes, and if you read the earlier Ned chapters, he thinks about Rhaegar then too.

"they whispered of ser Arthur Dayne... Ned had carried Ser Authur's sword back to the beautiful young sister" <-- this is when Eddard picks up Jon on his way back to Winterfell.

Yes, but he doesn't think about her, I mean. He feels nothing about Ashara.

"Never ask me about Jon" - Ned <-- Catelyn asks about Ashara being the mother and Ned simply states he never once her to question anything about Jon, so again: the question was phrased on Ashara, but Ned starts talking about Jon, because Jon is Ashara's baby.

Ned cut to the chase, because he heard the same rumours that Catelyn did. That's not some sort of telling association.

And your source is Viserys, one of the biggest worms out there. How do we know Daenerys was born at Dragonstone? Remember, the author has purposely made Robert's Rebellion timeline into a mess.

No, my source is the castle garrison, the people Willem Darry snuck away from because they were on the verge of surrendering and handing the Targaryen babies over to Stannis. Those guys would know if Rhaella was pregnant or not, and whether she gave birth.

It would certainly involve Ned Stark and whoever Quathe is.

You still haven't come up with any reason why Ned would give his sister's baby over to the Targaryens he had fought to overthrow to run around in exile.

 

[Drz]

Yes, and if you read the earlier Ned chapters, he thinks about Rhaegar then too.

Well show us?

That's not some sort of telling association.

Or is it?

No, my source is the castle garrison, the people Willem Darry snuck away from because they were on the verge of surrendering and handing the Targaryen babies over to Stannis. Those guys would know if Rhaella was pregnant or not, and whether she gave birth.

And yet those characters have never said a thing. All those characters? Willem is dead and in Daenerys' chapters was an old sickly man, so Viserys is the only character who had told Daenerys anything and he was her only source of intel.

You still haven't come up with any reason why Ned would give his sister's baby over to the Targaryens he had fought to overthrow to run around in exile.

Maybe it has something to do with Robert murdering Targaryens left and right? This is exactly why Ned started having fever dreams about the promise and why he remained in King's Landing to ensure the absolute safety of Daenerys.

I mean, are you telling me that Robert Baratheon would have been totally cool with Ned having the bastard child of Rhaegar and Lyanna? Robert went to war because of his love for Lyanna and hated Rhaegar.

 

[Ramsay Snow]

Well show us?

He's right:

Suddenly, uncomfortably, he found himself recalling Rhaegar Targaryen. Fifteen years dead, yet Robert hates him as much as ever.

-AGOT, Eddard VIII

For the first time in years, he found himself remembering Rhaegar Targaryen. He wondered if Rhaegar had frequented brothels; somehow he thought not.

-AGOT, Eddard IX

Always found this odd. And there's other instances too where he discusses and recalls stuff to do with Rhaegar Targaryen before that line, but they're less direct and I'm not digging them up and compiling them.

 

[Drz]

Ramsay, I already posted the 2nd quote about Rhaegar and they are the ones i'm making a point.

I'm asking did Ned Stark think about Rhaegar BEFORE King's Landing AND Before Daenerys assination.

The two quotes you posted about Ed Stark thinking about Rhaegar have to do with King's Landing and Daenerys' assination plot.

Why? Because R + L = D!

Why is this important? Because if R + L = J, why did Ned Stark only began having these dreams of his promise and think about Rhaegar when he returned to King's Landing. If he was raising Rhaegar's son, he would have been thinking about Rhaegar for the past 15 years, but he did not.

Because he was raising Ashara's and Brandon's bastard, not his sister's.

 

[Roose Bolton]

Ramsay, I already posted the 2nd quote about Rhaegar and they are the ones i'm making a point.

I'm asking did Ned Stark think about Rhaegar BEFORE King's Landing AND Before Daenerys assination.

The two quotes you posted about Ed Stark thinking about Rhaegar have to do with King's Landing and Daenerys' assination plot.

Why? Because R + L = D!

Why is this important? Because if R + L = J, why did Ned Stark only began having these dreams of his promise and think about Rhaegar when he returned to King's Landing. If he was raising Rhaegar's son, he would have been thinking about Rhaegar for the past 15 years, but he did not.

Because he was raising Ashara's and Brandon's bastard, not his sister's.

I CANT BELIEVE THIS. I JUST CANT BELIEVE THIS. LYANNA AND BRANDON ARE WHOUURRRRRRES!

So you're telling me that all these years Ned Stark has been raising a BASTARD NEPHEW?!?!?

I was just told that Ned Stark was tricked into raising a BASTARD for 16 years by his HORRIBLE, WHOURRRE BROTHER while throwing out the (Not inbred, despite all evidence to the contrary) baby of his WHOURRRE SISTER.

How is it you believe Dany is the daughter of Lyanna Stark? .

EXCUSE ME, HAVE YOU BANGED LYANNA OR BRANDON STARK?


Does anyone else here have any illegitimate children with Ned's WHOURRRE brother and sister ?!

 

[Ramsay Snow]

Jesus Roose!

 

[Roose Bolton]

Oh JESUS ROOSE! Jeezus Roose! Jeeezus ROOOSE???

My life is a lie! MY. LIFE. IS. A. LIE.

SOMEONES GOTTA GET STABBED!

 

[Reek]

Ned walked in on Lyanna dying after giving birth to Dany?

Funny considering he was in Dorne at the time Dany was born.

Wait... NED HAS A TWIN! TWIST! Or can he just run fast enough to create a speed mirage?

Unless that Lyanna Stark Whuuoooooreeeeee beast of a woman left her sprinklets all over the seven kingdoms... Stark babies all around!

that surrogate ****ing whuuuore

 

[Drizzle]

 

[Reek]

who? me? I'm not on anything unnatural, unlike Drz who is clearly drinking straight paint.

 

[Drz]

Prrfft, you're all just disappointed that your avatar white male saviour trope isn't happening in the Song of Ice and Fire. Jon Snow isn't going to fly a dragon, become azor ahai, be the Prince who was Promised and save and unite the Kingdom of Westeros.

Funny considering he was in Dorne at the time Dany was born.

Again, you're assuming Viserys is a reliable narrator, while Quathe keeps insisting Daenerys to remember her past and the truth will be in Asshai.

 

[Reek]

No... I am assuming Stannis is not a liar and would have known as well as anyone whats happening on the island he was about to take.

 

[Drz]

No... I am assuming Stannis is not a liar and would have known as well as anyone whats happening on the island he was about to take.

How would Stannis know the truth when he didn't even catch the Targaryens?

 

[Roose Bolton]

He'd get it from the Targaryen household retainers that surrendered and continued to serve him as the new Lord of Dragonstone. The whole point of putting Stannis in the centre of Targaryen loyalists in Westeros was to get them to fall in line, and they did.

 

[CaptainCanada]

And yet those characters have never said a thing. All those characters? Willem is dead and in Daenerys' chapters was an old sickly man, so Viserys is the only character who had told Daenerys anything and he was her only source of intel.

Dragonstone fortress had a large garrison. If Rhaella was never pregnant, they would have said something when Viserys and Darry started wandering around the Free Cities with somebody claimed to be Rhaella's daughter. Moreover, if not during childbirth, how did Rhaella die?

Maybe it has something to do with Robert murdering Targaryens left and right? This is exactly why Ned started having fever dreams about the promise and why he remained in King's Landing to ensure the absolute safety of Daenerys.

I mean, are you telling me that Robert Baratheon would have been totally cool with Ned having the bastard child of Rhaegar and Lyanna? Robert went to war because of his love for Lyanna and hated Rhaegar.

Trying to keep the baby a secret does not equate to giving her over to his hated enemies somehow.

And why would Ned be so desperate to keep Jon's identity a secret from everybody if he was just Brandon and Ashara's kid?

 

[Reek]

i thought he was trying to say Dany is the daughter of Rhaegar and Lyanna... i dont know... i want some of the paint he's drinking though.

 

[Drizzle]

https://winteriscoming.net/2016/03/16/stephen-dillane-stannis-admits-he-didnt-enjoy-game-of-thrones/

In other news, the sky is blue.

 

[Roose Bolton]

It's comments like that which prove he was the perfect choice for Stannis.

 

[Victarion]

He's saying what we've all been thinking!