Game of Thrones - Book Readers' Thread - - - - - - Part 23

[Reek]

I think he meant the Children of the forest.

 

[Drz]

Whose side are the children on?

Their own?

 

[trd84]

Yes, yes. He died, but he came back and continued to act as the Lord Commander and ordered 4 people to have murdered and then stopped being the Lord Commander.

I hope the Weirwood trees follow the same logic as you do, not that oath breakers have any worries in this universe compared to the books.

Because your logic just doesn't add up. Either he was an unauthorized Lord Commander who did what he wanted, or he continued his watch post-murder until he decided to break his oath.



Jon Snow in the tv show knows that Bran is alive and would surely want something to be done for Bran.

He knows he was alive and went north of the wall. Probably thinks he's dead.

 

[Ezio Auditore]

Spoilers ADWD and episode 3:

How awesome would have been if instead of Jon[BLACKOUT]hanging the 4mutiners[/BLACKOUT] he would have said (mirrroring Slynt's execution in ADWD) "this is wrong" ordering Edd to [BLACKOUT]cut the ropes and fetch him a block, and have Thorne saying "you don't have the nerve to hang us" or smg like that. Only for Jon to draw Longclaw and behead them all himself. And then leaving saying his watch has ended[/BLACKOUT]

 

[Victarion]

I liked Thorne's death. Very dignified.

 

[Reek]

I would have preferred it being just one person... The ending with Alliser was perfect IMO...

Now... I wanted Olly to spit on jon or something and him do as you are saying...

 

[Victarion]

Olly had a really messed up life if you think about it.

 

[Marvolo]

Yes, yes. He died, but he came back and continued to act as the Lord Commander and ordered 4 people to have murdered and then stopped being the Lord Commander.

I hope the Weirwood trees follow the same logic as you do, not that oath breakers have any worries in this universe compared to the books.

Because your logic just doesn't add up. Either he was an unauthorized Lord Commander who did what he wanted, or he continued his watch post-murder until he decided to break his oath.



Jon Snow in the tv show knows that Bran is alive and would surely want something to be done for Bran.

No youre just trying to creat a problem where there isnt one.

Been thinking about this, and

First of all he didnt order anyone murdered. Those four broke their oaths and killed their Lord Commander. That carries a death penalty. They were going to die regardless of Jon, whether he was dead or alive. Lord Commander or not. It was a legal execution and in the North a traitor to the Watch or a person that murders a Lord Commander can can be executed, and not only by an acting LC. So Jon cutting the rope doesnt even mean he was acting as LC.

Jon or anyone else there could have cut that rope and it wouldnt make a difference. Legally or morally. But I seriously doubt anyone at Castle Black is going to protest Jon being the one who cut the rope.

And I can't point to any moment in the episode where he ever declared himself LC or acted in a way that only a LC can act.

The men seemed to expect him to be LC once again, and I cant blame them. Jon probably is the most capable of them. But Jon never said to them he was still Lord Commander or that he would continue to be the LC. He probably gave it some thought and decided before he ever got up on the gallows. He dealt out justice and announced to the men that he was done.

He said "The castle is yours." Either he meant the Night's Watch in general or Edd his former steward had command, but given his attitude about it he seemed like he really didnt give a damn, and wasnt ordering Edd. Ultimately the men will have to decide for themselves so again this isnt something Jon did in any official capacity.

Now as for the vow, lets read it again.

"Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death. I shall take no wife, hold no lands, father no children. I shall wear no crowns and win no glory. I shall live and die at my post. I am the sword in the darkness. I am the watcher on the walls. I am the shield that guards the realms of men. I pledge my life and honor to the Night’s Watch, for this night and all the nights to come.”
—
Night’s Watch oath

"Until death"...he died. Oath fulfilled. It doesnt say "It shall not end until my death...unless Im resurrected then it carries on." It says "until death." He died. The oath was fulfilled.

Its pretty clear on that point.

 

[Roose Bolton]

Olly had a really messed up life if you think about it.

And now the Watch is gonna bang his dead body.

 

[Victarion]

I didn't know Karstark was at the Wall.

 

[Drz]

He knows he was alive and went north of the wall. Probably thinks he's dead.

That's pretty out of character for Jon Snow to just consider Bran dead and not even consider with Sansa about sending an expedition.

"Until death"...he died. Oath fulfilled. It doesnt say "It shall not end until my death...unless Im resurrected then it carries on." It says "until death." He died. The oath was fulfilled.

Let's start with this. Now you're fully aware of that Jon Snow is no longer a member but a associate of the Night's Watch.

That carries a death penalty.

But the Night's Watch had clearly not decided to go with that, until the Wildlings came with a Giant and pretty much putted everyone on their kneels.

So Jon cutting the rope doesnt even mean he was acting as LC.

But what right do the Wildlings and Jon Snow have to do with Night's Watch politics? They we're an outside force who bullied their way.

If the Night's watch wanted Thorne dead, they would have done so without outside forces.

 

[chamber-music]

Qyburn the mad scientist all ways gives off creepy vibes.

Olly had a really messed up life if you think about it.

Vengeance often leads to your downfall in GoT.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

That's pretty out of character for Jon Snow to just consider Bran dead and not even consider with Sansa about sending an expedition.



Let's start with this. Now you're fully aware of that Jon Snow is no longer a member but a associate of the Night's Watch.



But the Night's Watch had clearly not decided to go with that, until the Wildlings came with a Giant and pretty much putted everyone on their kneels.



But what right do the Wildlings and Jon Snow have to do with Night's Watch politics? They we're an outside force who bullied their way.

If the Night's watch wanted Thorne dead, they would have done so without outside forces.

You are being difficult to be difficult. They murdered s man. The LC of the Night's Watch. The punishment for that is death. This was established with Mormont. There is no question about this. The same applies to murdering any other person in Westeros for that matter. Jon executing them is not a problem. Unless you think it is legal of the Night's Watch to harbor murderers. Which is of course ridiculous.

 

[TheFuture]

So the title of the episode Oathbreaker, refers to Jon breaking his oath?

Because if he is still the Lord Commander after his resurrection, that means his Watch didn't end, or do Undead people get this "get out of jail" card that i'm unaware of?

You could say that there were numerous oathbreakers.

Smalljon betraying his family oath to the Starks.

The Nights Watch mutineers meeting justice for breaking their oaths and murdering their Lord Commander.

Dany being held "accountable" for her denial of Dothraki heritage.

 

[Reek]

Just give up, guys. lol trust me I tried... it will end the same way

 

[Drz]

Smalljon betraying his family oath to the Starks.

Ah, but that didn't happen.... yet? He never kneeled or gave an oath. So there is a slimmer of hope that the great Northern conspiracy is alive.

The LC of the Night's Watch. The punishment for that is death.

Remember that the Wildlings murdered countless Night's Watch members but the acting Lord Commander pardoned the Wildlings.

You'd think a war veteran such as Thorne would be useful againts the battle againts the Others? Why didn't the acting Lord Commander do anything? was it because the Tyrant Jon Snow and his Wildling army we're pushing their will? After all, the Night's Watch we're clearly on Thorne's side and only the minority supported Edd and Snow. That changed when the Wildlings came and attacked.

The same applies to murdering any other person in Westeros for that matter.

Yep, and the Wildlings had been pardoned.

 

[Verick808]

Ah, but that didn't happen.... yet? He never kneeled or gave an oath. So there is a slimmer of hope that the great Northern conspiracy is alive.



Remember that the Wildlings murdered countless Night's Watch members but the acting Lord Commander pardoned the Wildlings.

You'd think a war veteran such as Thorne would be useful againts the battle againts the Others? Why didn't the acting Lord Commander do anything? was it because the Tyrant Jon Snow and his Wildling army we're pushing their will? After all, the Night's Watch we're clearly on Thorne's side and only the minority supported Edd and Snow. That changed when the Wildlings came and attacked.

Yep, and the Wildlings had been pardoned.

Murdering your Lord Commander is not the same as killing an enemy on the battlefield. By your argument he should have let the assassin who killed Mormont live because he could have been useful against the white walkers.
Also there are precedents for outsiders enforcing the night watches laws. It's pretty much one of the first things we see Ned Stark do.

 

[Drz]

By your argument he should have let the assassin who killed Mormont live because he could have been useful against the white walkers.

Well no, because those mutineers we're againts the Night's Watch where as Thorne was all about the Night's watch.

Also there are precedents for outsiders enforcing the night watches laws. It's pretty much one of the first things we see Ned Stark do.

Ned Stark is a lord, Jon Snow is a bastard.

 

[Reek]

You can't be all about the Night's watch then kill its commander. That's the same as being a kingslayer for them.

Jon Snow is not a bastard in the watch. He is a brother. and the Lord Commander. What does Ned Stark being a Lord have to do with it? If anything you are supporting the point that outsiders enforce the Nights Watches laws, regardless of their titles

 

[Reek]

Nable should be Barristan in a prequel

 

[Marvolo]

Did yall see what Sophie Turner wore to the Apocalypse premiere?

 

[Drz]

Trivia: Ramsay flayed her costume all those holes.

 

[Ezio Auditore]

I didn't know Karstark was at the Wall.

What?

In the books, you say?

 

[Victarion]

In response to Roose's degeneracy.

 

[Reek]

I remember when Sophie was trying that on for me... it was much easier to take off.