Game of Thrones - Book Readers' Thread - - - - - - - Part 24

[Infinity9999x]

There was always going to be at least three more novels of the same length following A Storm of Swords. Honestly I'm not sure how you thought that the series was approaching the endgame with that in mind, certainly a midway point had been crossed, but the series wasnt ever intended to be a quadrilogy and each novel introduced new POVs to follow. Clash of Kings had Davos and Theon, A Storm of Swords had Jaime. Pretty much all of the Ironborn had been introduced as characters in Clash, just like how Jaime was introduced in AGOT, and even going right back to George's earliest planning, the Kingsmoot was always going to open the potential 4th novel after the aftermath of Storm. The idea has always been that the first three novels dealt with the War of Five Kings, and the last three dealt with the more overt supernatural threats. Given that Euron was basically foreshadowed throughout the first trilogy and then made his appearance right after, I don't think there's anything wrong with that, especially since the White Walkers themselves weren't used a lot in the first three novels either.



See this is kind of a weird view, because on an aesthetic or thematic level, Euron is nothing like Littlefinger. And he's only akin to Ramsay in the sense that he's a psychopath who tortures people, but even then, Ramsay is not the character of the show. He's dumb muscle in the books, a thug who Theon was foolish enough to fall for. Everything about Euron screams Lovecraft, he's walking apocalypse. Likewise, Victarion is only like Drogo, in as much as he and Drogo are both based on Conan the Cimmerian. Drogo was basically just Dany's love interest whom we only saw via their love scenes. Victarion is a POV character whose thoughts and emotions are open to the reader, and his arc is unique as a villain who views himself as a hero.



Dany has no need to take Euron's ships, because Euron isn't bringing her ships. Euron is in the Reach about to unleash the Kraken on the Redwyne fleet. Victarion is the one who is sailing to Dany, and by the looks of it that crazy bastard might actually be in love with her and join her side. The newest chapter basically flat out shows us that this guy is very apocalyptic and factors into the White Walkers in some real way. Him being simple a road bump for Dany is massively underestimating the story, especially when all factors point to him factoring into the endgame.

You might not like the Ironborn, which is fair because they're not everyone's cup of tea, but just because you don't like them doesn't mean that they're unimportant to the narrative..

The series was originally intended to be a trilogy, but as he wrote it the world kept growing. And I'm fine with the fact that there were more books, what annoyed me the most about books 4 and 5 were that for all the content in there, the actual end game barely advances. In books 1 through 3, the plot advances at fairly breakneck pace for all the main characters. We take pretty huge jumps ahead and we learn a lot about the world and the central conflict within the series. In books 4 and 5 that almost completely grinds to a halt.

And yeah, I do agree that book Euron is creepy, and Lovecraftian is a great description for him, but what bugged me about all of them is that we had to learn this new cast of characters in the middle of the series. As a rule, I'm not a huge fan of that. And it added to the feel that GRRM was getting lost in his world instead of knowing how to advance the main plot. As I've said before, he was giving me hints of Robert Jordan in both of those books, and that worried me.

Now, I think you also have a point because I just didn't care about the Iron Born. I didn't care about the kings moot, and I really didn't care about Victorian. Euron was the only one that was somewhat interesting to me. So I think that has a lot to do with it. And a lot of it is going to come down to how much any of these characters really influence the overall plot. If they end up being Quentin Martel's, then I'll still be annoyed at their inclusion.

 

[Roose Bolton]

Well you look at everything that happened in A Storm of Swords, which was written with the knowledge that there'd be at least 6,000 pages of material yet to come, his original plan was to pick up the story of the last three books 3-5 years after A Storm of Swords, which to me shows that he wanted to reshuffle characters and the politics so that there could be breathing room. But here's the thing, he's not pulling these characters (The Greyjoys at least) out of nowhere. We met Asha, Aeron and Victarion in A Clash of Kings, the same way we met Theon and Jaime in A Game of Thrones. The Martells, and the Golden Company, yeah they didn't really have any build up (though there's plenty of narrative reason for why Jon Connington is a figure in the series) but the Greyjoys have been a part of the story from the beginning really. GRRM just chose to make them more active protagonists/antagonists in his second trilogy and it's something that you can see was in the making in those first few books.

But really if we get to the heart of what you're saying, Quentyn Martell is the figure you keep coming back to. There's no reason to believe that. Quentyn had, what, three chapters in total? He died in the same book he was introduced and his chapters stayed "titled" rather than "named" which is the distinction between minor and major POVs. There was no set up for Quentyn in any of the original novels or any reason to believe he would play a major part in the saga. In fact I think the first time we hear his name is towards the end of AFFC. This doesn't really apply to the Greyjoys, Euron especially. If anything, the Greyjoys seem far more important than the Boltons, Littlefinger, and even Cersei at this point.

 

[Marvolo]

The series was originally intended to be a trilogy, but as he wrote it the world kept growing. And I'm fine with the fact that there were more books, what annoyed me the most about books 4 and 5 were that for all the content in there, the actual end game barely advances. In books 1 through 3, the plot advances at fairly breakneck pace for all the main characters. We take pretty huge jumps ahead and we learn a lot about the world and the central conflict within the series. In books 4 and 5 that almost completely grinds to a halt.

And yeah, I do agree that book Euron is creepy, and Lovecraftian is a great description for him, but what bugged me about all of them is that we had to learn this new cast of characters in the middle of the series. As a rule, I'm not a huge fan of that. And it added to the feel that GRRM was getting lost in his world instead of knowing how to advance the main plot. As I've said before, he was giving me hints of Robert Jordan in both of those books, and that worried me.

Now, I think you also have a point because I just didn't care about the Iron Born. I didn't care about the kings moot, and I really didn't care about Victorian. Euron was the only one that was somewhat interesting to me. So I think that has a lot to do with it. And a lot of it is going to come down to how much any of these characters really influence the overall plot. If they end up being Quentin Martel's, then I'll still be annoyed at their inclusion.

I think the original trilogy idea was intended to have the events of GOT, COK, and SOS as the first book. I remember reading something about that. That the first manuscript got too long and eventually developed and evolved into what became the first 3 published books.

 

[Reek]

Early on I had the idea to make it one shot that just pushes in and gets closer and closer, and then the parallel high shot that gets closer and closer to Wylis, who became Hodor. I talked about it with Dave and Dan a lot. I said, “What the dead would be doing to Hodor would be ripping his clothes off once they got through that door. They would be ripping his flesh off. If the dead can go through wood, they’re going to be tearing Hodor apart.”

And they said something to me that really stuck. Which was “If it’s too horrific, we’re not going to feel the loss of Hodor.” And that was my compass the entire time, to make us really care at the end. I still wanted to make it scary enough, see Hodor surrounded and engulfed by these skeletal arms and long fingers, that were eventually going to smother and kill and rip him apart, or whatever they were going to do that we didn’t see. But to not let the horror of it overwhelm the emotion of losing that character and making it really land on the idea that he was sacrificing himself so his friends could get away. That was the dominant idea.

WIGHT HODOR IS POSSIBLE

 

[Lencho01]

This was a pretty interesting video...

[YT]PDdKmx0PW7s[/YT]

 

[Reek]

there's a theory that Euron burnt Dany's ships lol

 

[Ezio Auditore]

there's a theory that Euron burnt Dany's ships lol

Book Euron? I could buy that. This lame show versión Euron? Nah

 

[Marvolo]

It doesnt make any sense for Book or Show Euron to burn those ships.

Why would he burn ships that he can use to get Dany and her army to westeros? Ships that he can then use in his war on Westeros. No, book Euron is smarter than that. He would take those ships before he would burn them.

 

[Reek]

yea zero sense... its just a theory for the show and i found it hilarious lol

 

[trd84]

It doesnt make any sense for Book or Show Euron to burn those ships.

Why would he burn ships that he can use to get Dany and her army to westeros? Ships that he can then use in his war on Westeros. No, book Euron is smarter than that. He would take those ships before he would burn them.

So she would need him.If she already has ships he is no use to her.

 

[Ezio Auditore]

I just saw the synopsis for the last three episodes.
Don't know if they are legit or not. I saw it on an Instagram post (Still an account that had been right with everything they predicted)

Episode 8, "No One":

Spoiler

Tyrion (Peter Dinklage) finds cause for concern. Cersei (Lena Headey) prepares for the worst. Sansa (Sophie Turner) takes control. Arya (Maise Williams) is not alone.

Episode 9, "Battle of the Bastards":

Spoiler

Ramsay (Iwan Rheon) surprises his audience. Jon (Kit Harrington) retaliates. Dany (Emilia Clarke) is true to her word.

Episode 10, "The Winds of Winter":

Spoiler

A queen comes forth. Euron (Pilou Asbaek) reveals himself. Brienne(Gwendoline Christie) meets a friend turned foe. King's Landing awaits justice. The Night's Watch gathers.

The reason why I'm suspicious is because the synopsis for episode 9 shows that [BLACKOUT]Euron will appear. And according to some leaks, it was stated that he would not return until next season. Maybe he reveals himself as been Daario [/BLACKOUT]t:t:t:t:


Sorry for bad english.

 

[Marvolo]

So she would need him.If she already has ships he is no use to her.

Euron doest care if Dany needs him. He is the type of person that takes what he wants.

 

[Marvolo]

Jack Bender says Season 7 will indeed be 7 episodes.

When asked if he'd return to direct future episodes of the series in a recent interview with Vanity Fair, frequent director Jack Bender verified that the next season of HBO's premiere show will be shortened to just 7 episodes, saying

"I don’t know the answer to that. They’re only doing seven [episodes], and they’ve got their regulars who have done it forever."

http://www.joblo.com/movie-news/gam...rtened-robert-kirkman-comments-on-changes-192

 

[Iceman]

WHY???!!!!!

I hate breaking with tradition (unless it's to give bigger episodes )

 

[Fist of Khonshu]

See my reply to this in the non-book thread, Iceman.

But they could very well be longer episodes too since they seem to starting that trend this season. This morning I read:

“Blood of My Blood” ran for 52 minutes and “The Broken Man” will run for only 51, but “No One” will last for 59 minutes, “The Battle of the Bastards” for 60, and “The Winds of Winter” for a staggering 69 (that’s the longest episode in the show’s history).

 

[Marvolo]

Theyve been doing longer episodes since season 4 or 5. This seasons episodes have been on the short side.

 

[rashad]

Theyve been doing longer episodes since season 4 or 5. This seasons episodes have been on the short side.

4.01 Two Swords (59 minutes)
4.02 The Lion and the Rose (53 minutes)
4.03 Breaker of Chains (57 minutes)
4.04 Oathkeeper (56 minutes)

4.05 First of His Name (54 minutes)
4.06 The Laws of Gods and Men (51 minutes)
4.07 Mockingbird (52 minutes)
4.08 The Mountain and the Viper (53 minutes)
4.09 The Watchers on the Wall (51 minutes)

4.10 The Children (66 minutes)

5.01 The Wars to Come (53 minutes)
5.02 The House of Black and White (56 minutes)
5.03 High Sparrow (60 minutes)
5.04 Sons of the Harpy (51 minutes)
5.05 Kill the Boy (57 minutes)
5.06 Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken (54 minutes)
5.07 The Gift (57 minutes)
5.08 Hardhome (61 minutes)
5.09 The Dance of Dragons (51 minutes)
5.10 Mother's Mercy (60 minutes)

6.01 The Red Woman (50 minutes)
6.02 Home (54 minutes)
6.03 Oathbreaker (53 minutes)
6.04 Book of the Stranger (59 minutes)
6.05 The Door (57 minutes)
6.06 Blood of My Blood (52 minutes)
6.07 The Broken Man (51 minutes)
6.08 No One (59 minutes)
6.09 The Battle of the Bastards (60 minutes)
6.10 The Winds of Winter (69 minutes)

We should also note that all three of these episodes will be lengthy. “Blood of My Blood” ran for 52 minutes and “The Broken Man” will run for only 51, but “No One” will last for 59 minutes, “The Battle of the Bastards” for 60, and “The Winds of Winter” for a staggering 69 (that’s the longest episode in the show’s history).

http://winteriscoming.net/2016/06/03/hbo-confirms-title-for-episode-8-of-game-of-thrones-season-6/

 

[Reek]

I personally think each episode is going to be a 30 minute sitcom.

 

[Iceman]

See my reply to this in the non-book thread, Iceman.

But they could very well be longer episodes too since they seem to starting that trend this season. This morning I read:

“Blood of My Blood” ran for 52 minutes and “The Broken Man” will run for only 51, but “No One” will last for 59 minutes, “The Battle of the Bastards” for 60, and “The Winds of Winter” for a staggering 69 (that’s the longest episode in the show’s history).

Ahh. I'm a bit dumb. For some reason I thought all the episodes would have to be the same length for TV requirements, advertising or fitting in around other programmes or something. That's not so bad then.

 

[Marvolo]

Ahh. I'm a bit dumb. For some reason I thought all the episodes would have to be the same length for TV requirements, advertising or fitting in around other programmes or something. That's not so bad then.

Networks like HBO (that are subscription based) don't have those sort of requirements and they don't sell or rely on ad space. So those sorts of things don't factor into how long an episode is.

 

[Iceman]

Networks like HBO (that are subscription based) don't have those sort of requirements and they don't sell or rely on ad space. So those sorts of things don't factor into how long an episode is.

Oh good to know. The adverts during GoT here are a right pain. They go on forever.

 

[Roose Bolton]

I think the season (series?) finale of True Detective was movie length wasn't it?

 

[TheFuture]

I just saw the synopsis for the last three episodes.
Don't know if they are legit or not. I saw it on an Instagram post (Still an account that had been right with everything they predicted)

Episode 8, "No One":

Spoiler

Tyrion (Peter Dinklage) finds cause for concern. Cersei (Lena Headey) prepares for the worst. Sansa (Sophie Turner) takes control. Arya (Maise Williams) is not alone.

Episode 9, "Battle of the Bastards":

Spoiler

Ramsay (Iwan Rheon) surprises his audience. Jon (Kit Harrington) retaliates. Dany (Emilia Clarke) is true to her word.

Episode 10, "The Winds of Winter":

Spoiler

A queen comes forth. Euron (Pilou Asbaek) reveals himself. Brienne(Gwendoline Christie) meets a friend turned foe. King's Landing awaits justice. The Night's Watch gathers.

The reason why I'm suspicious is because the synopsis for episode 9 shows that [BLACKOUT]Euron will appear. And according to some leaks, it was stated that he would not return until next season. Maybe he reveals himself as been Daario [/BLACKOUT]t:t:t:t:


Sorry for bad english.

Spoiler

Brienne in episode 10 is an interesting note.

Surely she'll meet Jaime before the last episode so, you know.......

 

[Reek]

I won't buy it until I see it, The Future... don't... just don't!

We can't get our hopes up... AGAIN

 

[Roose Bolton]

Between what we know from the spoilers, and GRRM's own comments, I really don't think it's going to be what people think it is.