Game of Thrones - Book Readers' Thread - - - - - - - Part 24

[Marvolo]

https://angrygotfan.com/2016/05/29/the-winds-of-winter-the-damphair-part-1/

This bit here...

“It was me who taught you how to pray, little brother, have you forgotten? I would visit your bedchamber at night when I’d had too much to drink. You shared a room with Urrigon high up in the Seatower. I could hear you praying from outside the door. I always wondered, were you praying that I would choose you, or that I would pass you by?”

Is this implying he sexually molested his younger brothers?

 

[Reek]

This bit here...



Is this implying he sexually molested his younger brothers?

Yea he molested his younger brothers.

 

[Marvolo]

Yea he molested his younger brothers.

What a c*nt.

 

[Roose Bolton]

“Not even you would dare,” said the Damphair. “I am your brother. No man is more cursed than the kinslayer.”

“And yet, I wear a crown, and you rot in chains. How is it that your Drowned God allows that, when I have killed three brothers?”

“Three?”

“Well, if you count half-brothers. Do you remember little Robin? Wretched creature. Do you remember that big head of his, how soft it was? All he could do was mewl and ****. He was my second. Harlon was my first. All I had to do was pinch his nose shut. The greyscale had turned his mouth to stone, so he could not cry out. His eyes grew frantic as he died. They named me. When the life went out of him, I went out and pissed into the sea and prayed to the god to strike me down. None did. Oh, and Balon was the third, but you knew that. I could not do the deed myself, but it was my hand that pushed him off the bridge.”

This guy is a lovecraftian horror. How in blue hell did they **** him up so much in the series?

 

[Marvolo]

Maybe they havent actually ****ed the character up...yet. We dont see him the rest of the season. Maybe by the time the show gets back to him next season he will be fully in control of the iron islands and letting his crazy flag really fly.

 

[Reek]

well, the thing about Euron is his immediate presence is notably different than the ironborn. it would be weird for him to change into what his book counterpart is AFTER he has already talked about traveling the world and stuff.

 

[Roose Bolton]

Right off the bat, the humiliation of having Theon and Yara manage to sneak off with some of his best ships makes him less threatening. If they wanted to salvage that and make him genuinely someone who could threaten the cast, they'd need to drastically reimagine the character. I'm not sure if they have time to do that with only 13 more episodes.

 

[Victarion]

Do you think the response to the show's Ramsay is what caused Dave and Dan to water down their Euron?

 

[BatmanBeyond]

Do you think the response to the show's Ramsay is what caused Dave and Dan to water down their Euron?

I know the question wasn't for me, but it seems that, at this point at least, Dave and Dan don't really care all that much for the characters beyond the 'main' cast. I think Roose mentioned in another thread that it was one of the directors that proposed they include both the Dorne and Ironborn plotlines from the books and it's kind of easy to tell that Dave and Dan didn't really want to tackle these two storylines, judging by how shoehorned the latter, especially, has seemed at certain points, chief among them Euron's characterisation so far.

 

[Matt]

After the last episode the show is dripping with all the anime only tropes.

It's clear as day as to what they're building up towards. There's obviously going to be a union between all the "main" characters we've been following in the show. Even though Dany is gathering a huge army/navy for her own purposes they're all inadvertently helping to create the biggest army that this whole area has ever seen and they'll all have to join forces to bring down the White Walkers.

I feel this has always been a possibility but the show isn't shying away from being super obvious, something that wasn't present when they were following Martin's fully developed writing.

I really don't buy it. It is too cliche. The entire point of Game of Thrones is to piss on conventional fantasy tropes. At some point, some combination of the heroes will probably unite to defeat the White Walkers, but I don't think it'll be that cliche or done in a conventional sense.

 

[Matt]

I know the question wasn't for me, but it seems that, at this point at least, Dave and Dan don't really care all that much for the characters beyond the 'main' cast. I think Roose mentioned in another thread that it was one of the directors that proposed they include both the Dorne and Ironborn plotlines from the books and it's kind of easy to tell that Dave and Dan didn't really want to tackle these two storylines, judging by how shoehorned the latter, especially, has seemed at certain points, chief among them Euron's characterisation so far.

Well, one thing to keep in mind there, Dave and Dan know the end game. We don't. Their directors don't. They have more access to the mind of Martin than any other person, aside from maybe his editor. If they are cutting Dorne and the Ironborn plotlines, there is a very real possibility that they just aren't that relevant in the grand scheme of things. Martin is a very talented writer. However, like his main influence Tolkein, he does tend to be very superfluous. In fact, I suspect that part of the reason he is struggling with finishing his last two books is that he has created so many characters and subplots that it is proving difficult to tie them together so as to allow him to build toward the story's conclusion that he envisioned. Being as Benioff and Weiss are aware of the general outline and end game, they can dodge this problem by being more streamlined.

 

[Iceman]

Well, one thing to keep in mind there, Dave and Dan know the end game. We don't. Their directors don't. They have more access to the mind of Martin than any other person, aside from maybe his editor. If they are cutting Dorne and the Ironborn plotlines, there is a very real possibility that they just aren't that relevant in the grand scheme of things. Martin is a very talented writer. However, like his main influence Tolkein, he does tend to be very superfluous. In fact, I suspect that part of the reason he is struggling with finishing his last two books is that he has created so many characters and subplots that it is proving difficult to tie them together so as to allow him to build toward the story's conclusion that he envisioned. Being as Benioff and Weiss are aware of the general outline and end game, they can dodge this problem by being more streamlined.

Good point.

Do you think the response to the show's Ramsay is what caused Dave and Dan to water down their Euron?

As in that he's a popular villain?

 

[Victarion]

No, as in that what's in The Forsaken (the new chapter) makes Ramsay look like a nice guy.

 

[Infinity9999x]

Well, one thing to keep in mind there, Dave and Dan know the end game. We don't. Their directors don't. They have more access to the mind of Martin than any other person, aside from maybe his editor. If they are cutting Dorne and the Ironborn plotlines, there is a very real possibility that they just aren't that relevant in the grand scheme of things. Martin is a very talented writer. However, like his main influence Tolkein, he does tend to be very superfluous. In fact, I suspect that part of the reason he is struggling with finishing his last two books is that he has created so many characters and subplots that it is proving difficult to tie them together so as to allow him to build toward the story's conclusion that he envisioned. Being as Benioff and Weiss are aware of the general outline and end game, they can dodge this problem by being more streamlined.

This is what I've been thinking for a while, and it's why the changes to Euron didn't really bother me. I felt he was a bit pointless when introduced in the books, as I said in the previous thread, and I felt that if GRRM had wanted him to be more of a series big bad, he should have introduced him earlier in the series. That was my main problem with the Dorne and Ironborn POV characters in the novels....I couldn't find the energy to care about them. I had read 3000 pages of characters I did care about, and when Martin introduced a plethora of new characters in Book 4, I was annoyed to no end. Especially since many of them had only vague hints at how they would effect the endgame of the whole series.

 

[Iceman]

No, as in that what's in The Forsaken (the new chapter) makes Ramsay look like a nice guy.

Did not see that coming!

 

[BatmanBeyond]

This is what I've been thinking for a while, and it's why the changes to Euron didn't really bother me. I felt he was a bit pointless when introduced in the books, as I said in the previous thread, and I felt that if GRRM had wanted him to be more of a series big bad, he should have introduced him earlier in the series. That was my main problem with the Dorne and Ironborn POV characters in the novels....I couldn't find the energy to care about them. I had read 3000 pages of characters I did care about, and when Martin introduced a plethora of new characters in Book 4, I was annoyed to no end. Especially since many of them had only vague hints at how they would effect the endgame of the whole series.

It's interesting, I really enjoyed the introduction, as well as focus on other characters which started in AFFC and continued in ADWD, it made for a rather welcome change of pace from the endless flurry of 'events' in ASOS. I felt that the introduction of these new plot lines served to further flesh out the world of Westeros, something I feel the show hasn't really done all that much - I mean, I understand why they haven't done so, given their budgets and amount of episodes/season. But it's one of the things I genuinely enjoyed about the books and it's rather disappointing for me to not see it done in the TV adaptation as well.

Having said all that, I can definitely see why some people perceive GRRM's introduction of all the new plot lines and characters as him dragging his feet and postponing the final ending for the book storyline.

 

[Roose Bolton]

Well, one thing to keep in mind there, Dave and Dan know the end game. We don't. Their directors don't. They have more access to the mind of Martin than any other person, aside from maybe his editor. If they are cutting Dorne and the Ironborn plotlines, there is a very real possibility that they just aren't that relevant in the grand scheme of things. Martin is a very talented writer. However, like his main influence Tolkein, he does tend to be very superfluous. In fact, I suspect that part of the reason he is struggling with finishing his last two books is that he has created so many characters and subplots that it is proving difficult to tie them together so as to allow him to build toward the story's conclusion that he envisioned. Being as Benioff and Weiss are aware of the general outline and end game, they can dodge this problem by being more streamlined.

Tom Wlaschiha recently mentioned that GRRM told D&D the ending of the five main characters (Jon, Bran, Tyrion, Dany, Arya) but the rest was left up to their own interpretation. So that would explain why they're less focused on the other story lines and what they do and don't include. I think it's pretty clear that Sansa in the books, for instance, will never be involved with the Boltons. We shouldn't take her TV arc to assume that she gets captured and raped daily by Ramsay in Book 6 or anything like that.

Personally, I don't know how anyone can say that Euron is unimportant after The Forsaken confirms several long held theories about the character's relevance in the mythology.

 

[Ms. Marvel]

George RR Martin:

"I mean... Fire is love, fire is passion, fire is sexual ardor and all of these things. Ice is betrayal, ice is revenge, ice is… you know, that kind of cold inhumanity and all that stuff is being played out in the books."

I find this interesting because on one hand it can be interpreted as him saying the WWs are bad and R'hllor is good but he could just be making a general statement about the concept of ice and fire.

 

[Victarion]

Am I a bad person for wanting to see Euron sack the Hightower and Oldtown? He reminds me of Elric when Elric's deep into his white wolf berserker state.

 

[Roose Bolton]

Nope. I personally hope he destroys a lot of the Reach, and the Maesters may have contributed to the extinction of the Dragons and decline of magic in the world. It's only fitting that someone uses magic to destroy them.

 

[Reek]

Am I a bad person for wanting Euron to sit the iron throne and ruin everyone's pathetic lives?

 

[Victarion]

Euron is Azor Ahai; he will save Westeros by ushering in the Long Night. He clearly is embodying ice in his connection to the others and fire in his personality. In bringing about the Long Night, Euron will facilitate a reconciliation of the forces of Ice and Fire necessary to bring balance and stability to Planetos.

Checkmate George.

 

[Marvolo]

The dragons used to be so cute:

 

[Reek]

DragonS? There's more than one?!?!?

 

[Roose Bolton]

Have they named Rhaegal and Viserion on screen yet? I know they've namedropped Drogon a few times.