Game of Thrones - Book Readers' Thread - - - - - - - - Part 25

[Roose Bolton]

In general there are big elements of the story where you can see that D&D just weren't interested by what they had read in the books.

 

[Victarion]

Does it seem like they've been spinning their wheels on material from AFFC that they probably had no intention of adapting (initially, anyway)?

 

[Reek]

You are so much more interesting when you don't post

 

[Victarion]

Ty he he

 

[Reek]

i honestly dont think theyve read beyond ASOS

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Or they are like me, and didn't really enjoy much of it. That being said, the good stuff in the last two books is really good stuff, more then worthy of a proper adaptation.

 

[Reek]

nah... they didn't read it... no way would they butcher Stannis so badly otherwise

 

[Roose Bolton]

Well like we've been saying, it's not just Stannis, it's Theon, it's some of the more nuanced stuff with Jon, Tyrion and Jamie's character growth etc.

I don't think they really liked the books after ASOS and they probably went into this adaptation with the goal of putting most of their effort into to getting that novel done on screen. Afterwards it was probably just more of the notion of "get this thing done so that we don't have to spend anymore time in Northern Ireland."

 

[TheFuture]

I should have said Melisandre, and not Carice... I love Carice and in terms of natural beauty, shes the top of the GoT women. I just hated Melisandre in the earlier seasons (as roose said) the writing was dog **** so she did what she could what the steaming pile she was given.

Carice is a probably one of the few I genuinely look forward to seeing on screen now. Another thing I liked about Mel in the book is the awe she inspires, like you genuinely believe it was a mistake that Stannis made not to bring her to the Blackwater or Winterfell.

Whereas in the show her absence from the Blackwater is just dismissed as Stannis doing the right thing leaving the zealot behind, while her presence on the march to Winterfell is portrayed as one of Stannis' ultimate mistakes.

It's disappointing. I'm reasonable in that I'm still happy to have the books and the show for what they are but still, I'm still struggling to understand how they couldn't have made more out of AFFC and ADWD.

 

[BullMcGiveny]

I'm still not sure why exactly they thought it would be a good idea to change Mel from being genuinely regretful and apologetic about the sons Davos lost in the Blackwater to her openly mocking him about it.

They still wanted Davos to attack her I guess.

 

[Roose Bolton]

They still wanted Davos to attack her I guess.

And they could have accomplished that with that scene where he's talking to Sallador Saan, when the latter mentions how she's burning men and Stannis is locked away in depression. It's been a while since I've seen that episode, but I think he even states that he has to return to Dragonstone to get rid of her. If they had him show up, show him carrying the knife and then have him arrested by Mel it would still work much the same, and also further play up her supernatural foresight.

 

[TheFuture]

It's one of those things where they wanted the maximum out of both actors. That's the only way you can explain Davos' lack of hysteria over Shireen until the last 2 episodes of season 6.

 

[Roose Bolton]

I think in the case of Shireen it was pretty clear from his reaction in 5x10 that he was crushed about her and Stannis' deaths, and that he chalked it up to the Boltons. The way the plot broke down they couldn't really immediately deal with that kind of drama whilst both characters were needed to get Jon's plotline from A to B and they had a logical in-universe reason for not addressing it right away.

 

[TheFuture]

Yet before that Davos hated Mel and his interaction with Jon was minimal. You could say trauma caused Davos to put everything into Jon's recovery but I don't buy it. Or maybe he just want a vehicle to get vengeance on the boltons. Either way they didn't explain it well.

 

[Roose Bolton]

I won't defend them on that score. Davos getting rolled into Jon's storyline like he did was odd and seems more like it came from the fact that they had drastically changed the circumstances of his character's arc away from his book version. And probably because D&D may have really liked Liam Cunningham and wanted to keep him in the centre of the action.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Well like we've been saying, it's not just Stannis, it's Theon, it's some of the more nuanced stuff with Jon, Tyrion and Jamie's character growth etc.

I don't think they really liked the books after ASOS and they probably went into this adaptation with the goal of putting most of their effort into to getting that novel done on screen. Afterwards it was probably just more of the notion of "get this thing done so that we don't have to spend anymore time in Northern Ireland."

I do not disagree with you at all. I just think it all got half-assed because they didn't care enough to adapt those two books. Honestly, the only two truly successful adaptations were AGoT and ASoS. And Blackwater from ACoK.

 

[TheFuture]

I won't defend them on that score. Davos getting rolled into Jon's storyline like he did was odd and seems more like it came from the fact that they had drastically changed the circumstances of his character's arc away from his book version. And probably because D&D may have really liked Liam Cunningham and wanted to keep him in the centre of the action.

One thing I'm curious about though is that Davos saving Rickon is likely going ton bring him around to Jon anyway. Yet Manderly said he'd only support Davos if he brings back his liege. I don't think Davos is going to produce rickon at winterfell so I'm wondering if the manderlys are just going to cry off in the battle.

 

[Roose Bolton]

One thing I'm curious about though is that Davos saving Rickon is likely going ton bring him around to Jon anyway. Yet Manderly said he'd only support Davos if he brings back his liege. I don't think Davos is going to produce rickon at winterfell so I'm wondering if the manderlys are just going to cry off in the battle.

I actually don't think Davos is going to be joining Jon in the books. I think he's heading South once he finds out the Baratheons are dead.

 

[scarlet-witch]

I actually don't think Davos is going to be joining Jon in the books. I think he's heading South once he finds out the Baratheons are dead.

I hope he does, to be honest. That's one of the changes the show made that I actually liked. I don't like that they removed Davos' awesome moment with the Manderlys, but being one of Jon's trusted advisors is nice.

 

[TheFuture]

I actually don't think Davos is going to be joining Jon in the books. I think he's heading South once he finds out the Baratheons are dead.

What makes you think that? I haven't a breeze where Davos' story goes if he doesn't go after Rickon and bring him home.

 

[BullMcGiveny]

As far as things D&D might do differently than in the books, having Davos join with house Stark is one I don't find unbearable. Though maybe make compelling reasons for Davos' sudden loyalty to why Davos, an athiest southron knight, takes the white walkers seriously and is so ride-or-die for Jon Snow.
Up until their last scene together in s5, their interactions always had Davos be a bit confrontational.

A desire to avenge Stannis and Shireen would have been a good motive, had Davos himself not denied it. At the time someone had speculated that it would be revealed that Stannis had given Davos sealed letters naming Jon as his he.

Also, maybe have Davos acknowledge the family he has in the Stormlands.

As others have said, they wanted to get from A to B in Jon's story, but didn't have the inclination or time to do a lot of the setup required. Which describes most of the North storyline, really.

 

[scarlet-witch]

My memory is foggy, did the show even acknowledge that Davos has other family aside from the son that died during Blackwater? In the books he's got 5 of them iirc, but I never remember the show mentioning anyone other than the one.

 

[Roose Bolton]

What makes you think that? I haven't a breeze where Davos' story goes if he doesn't go after Rickon and bring him home.

Davos has his wife Marya and his youngest sons Stannis and Steffon back home in the Stormlands, right where FAegon and the Golden Company have set up operations. I figure Davos brings Rickon back to Winterfell after the Baratheons and Boltons have extinguished each other and then decides to go South and save them after hearing news of how Faegon took the Baratheon holdouts in Storm's End. The old sailor returning home and all that.

 

[BullMcGiveny]

My memory is foggy, did the show even acknowledge that Davos has other family aside from the son that died during Blackwater? In the books he's got 5 of them iirc, but I never remember the show mentioning anyone other than the one.

The show heavily implies Mathos is his only kid. However, Salla does refer to Mrs. Seaworth as if still alive when he picks up Davos early in season 3.

 

[TheFuture]

AIs Davos an atheist? He seemed to go from indifference to searching for meaning in the seven.

Just little things like asking the mother to forgive him.