The Rise of Skywalker General Star Wars Episode IX News/Speculation Thread - Part 1

And Rian Johnson was just doing spin cause he didn’t get why people didn’t think that could relate to Kylo, or why Rey being Random wasn’t adding anything to the story, or how Finn’s story sucked, or why people knew he’d wasted Luke Skywalker.

“Bad script is bad script.”

TLJ and TROS are a lot closer in reception by fans and in box office total than TLJ is to TFA.

TLJ’s going to just end up being Johnson’s obligatory “that one bad film every great director has”... but it’s still going to end up being seen as a bad film.

Rian Johnson explaining creative choices to fans is not creative spin. At no point do I ever see Rian Johnson blaming JJ Abrams or episode 7 for things people didn't like about his movie. He defends his movie on its own merit. That's what someone who believes in what they did does. Once again, quality is inherently up to the person viewing the film. Your assertion that this was his one bad film is something I don't agree with. Because I don't see this is a bad film. Quite the contrary. I think he made not just a good film, but a great film. Honestly, I think it's better than any movie JJ Abrams has ever made in his life. At the end of the day, box-office percentage drops and things like that don't matter to me. I only brought them up when I did because someone was trying to make a point about audience perception. But yes I stand by my point, a bad script is a bad script. Rise of Skywalker is a poorly made movie from a screenwriting perspective. The Last Jedi is quite competent. There are many great write-ups about why it's a well-written movie, but I recommend the Just Write YouTube page and moviebob for analysis on that movie if you want to see how competent the story writing is in that film. I believe I've gone in circles discussing that film with you before, which is why I really don't feel like covering ground I've already covered.
 
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Rian Johnson explaining creative choices to fans is not creative spin. At no point do I ever see Rian Johnson blaming JJ Abrams or episode 7 for things people didn't like about his movie. He defends his movie on its own merit. That's what someone who believes in what they did does. Once again, quality is inherently up to the person viewing the film. Your assertion that this was his one bad film is something I don't agree with. Because I don't see this is a bad film. Quite the contrary. I think he made not just a good film, but a great film. Honestly, I think it's better than any movie JJ Abrams has ever made in his life. At the end of the day, box-office percentage drops and things like that don't matter to me. I only brought them up when I did because someone was trying to make a point about audience perception. But yes I stand by my point, a bad script is a bad script. Rise of Skywalker is a poorly made movie from a screenwriting perspective. The Last Jedi is quite competent. There are many great write-ups about why it's a well-written movie, but I recommend the Just Write YouTube page and moviebob for analysis on that movie if you want to see how competent the story writing is in that film. I believe I've gone in circles discussing that film with you before, which is why I really don't feel like covering ground I've already covered.

I was one of the fans who knew Kylo/Ben's fate before I saw TROS, as he's my favourite SW character I was naturally upset but still decided to go see it.

I expected to walk out feeling sad, but reconciled, and having seen a great film.

I walked out literally stunned at how dreadful it was. I still honestly can't believe it.
 
I think the 'Last Jedi' script is flawed for sure, but it actually has things like ideas and character arcs so it's automatically head-and-shoulders above the competition. One more pass to iron out some logic issues and I think it is great.

It's hard to even comment on the writing of 'Rise of Skywalker' because it is dreadfully apparent - from the opening crawl even - that this thing is probably still be written as you watch it. Barely anyone gets to shine. Kylo's face turn is probably the strongest material, thanks largely to Adam Driver, and yet I'm not even sure I want that to happen after 2 films of Kylo doubling-down on evil.
 
I think the 'Last Jedi' script is flawed for sure, but it actually has things like ideas and character arcs so it's automatically head-and-shoulders above the competition. One more pass to iron out some logic issues and I think it is great.

It's hard to even comment on the writing of 'Rise of Skywalker' because it is dreadfully apparent - from the opening crawl even - that this thing is probably still be written as you watch it. Barely anyone gets to shine. Kylo's face turn is probably the strongest material, thanks largely to Adam Driver, and yet I'm not even sure I want that to happen after 2 films of Kylo doubling-down on evil.

Honestly, the only flaw I really have with the script for episode 8 was the fact that it was a little too padded. The movie could have been more streamlined. Outside of that, all the arcs and logic pretty much work for me. Particularly the arcs track really well. But yeah, I agree episode 9 felt like it was being written on set LOL
 
Maryann Brandon, co-editor of Star Wars: The Force Awakens and Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker:: “[Star Wars: The Last Jedi] was just a different take on the Star Wars saga. And to Rian [Johnson]’s credit, he stuck to what he wanted to do, and he wanted to deconstruct the film and open it up to go a different direction. That is the film he made. I know it is controversial, but isn’t that kind of good in a way?” “That’s why I feel very much in hindsight that the trilogy, the last part of the trilogy, needed one vision.” (April 7, 2020)

Mary Jo Markey, co-editor of Star Wars: The Force Awakens: “I couldn’t agree more [with Maryann Brandon's sentiment]. It’s very strange to have the second film so consciously undo the storytelling of the first one. I’m sorry that’s what it felt like.” “I don’t even feel that’s true about the third film. It took where the second film ended and just tried to tell a story. I didn’t feel like it was consciously—it just didn’t feel that way to me.” (April 7, 2020)
TLJ answered things, it was just in an unexpected way. It also opened up the doors for Star Wars to do something different for once. Sadly, TROS took the amazing set up of TFA, and the questions posed by TLJ, and decided to do something safe simply because some people, over dramatically, decided to make a movie mean life or death for them. There was no "undoing" of the force awakens in TLJ, there was simply answers that people weren't expecting.

TROS is a reactionary film in pretty much every way and its blatantly obvious when watching it.
 
I want to add something to the post I made above. In regards to Rian Johnson defending his work. Just because you're a fan of something doesn't entitle you to necessarily be correct about the thing that you're a fan of. Other fans are allowed to disagree with you, and so can the people making these movies. Just because you can go on to Johnson's Twitter and declare that he somehow destroyed Star Wars doesn't mean he has to agree with you. He doesn't owe you an apology. He is more than allowed to explain his creative reasoning, or even say that he flat-out thinks you're wrong. Anymore it seems like there's this sense of fan entitlement that is just bizarre to me. Fans do not own Star Wars. Disney does not have to follow some type of blueprint for fans. Filmmakers don't have to make decisions specifically that fans will like. I don't care how many lightsabers and action figures you buy. By that same token, you can say your opinion. You're allowed to have your opinion. No one is forcing you to like anyting. But this sense that I get from people that Johnson is somehow in the wrong for defending a film you didn't like is weird to me. When did artists stop being allowed to defend their own work?

And before somebody tries to point out some hypocrisy of me defending Johnson but pushing back against what these editors are saying, these editors have every right to defend their work too. However, an artist explaining their own creative choices on a film they made seems more genuine to me then a couple of dudes trying to throw a different film under a bus that had honestly very little bearing on the inherent quality of the film they made from my from my estimation. Regardless of anything these editors are saying here, JJ Abrams and Chris Terrio made a ton of creative choices that were stupid in their own right that had very little to do with the previous entry in the series. Once again, bad script is a bad script.
 
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Hindsight is 20/20 I know, but getting JJ back was a reactionary choice that inevitably led to a reactionary movie. Literally anyone else directing 9 would have taken 7 and 8 and moved forward, but JJ was in the unique position to look at 8 as a deviation from 7. It was doomed.

Honestly, the only flaw I really have with the script for episode 8 was the fact that it was a little too padded. The movie could have been more streamlined. Outside of that, all the arcs and logic pretty much work for me. Particularly the arcs track really well. But yeah, I agree episode 9 felt like it was being written on set LOL

I think there are a few things that could have been smoothed out. Holdo and Poe's conflict comes to mind. Holdo had reason to suspect a spy, and could have distrusted a plan from a disgraced pilot, his stormtrooper friend and the skills/knowledge of a mere mechanic. A couple of lines and she could have been an obstacle for Poe, but also much more understandable in her decision making.

The big one for me though is the execution of the Finn sacrifice fake-out. I think it is staged incorrectly and does a lot to sink Rose's popularity. I think the scene plays better if it is more apparent that Finn will fail in his attempt, and if Rose has a less destructive solution to the problem (dragging him back with a tow-cable maybe?). The scene should be a dramatic rescue, but it reads like Rose stupidly spoiled a heroic sacrifice, nearly killing them both in the process. I know what the scene is doing, but it feels like it is slightly out of tune. The kiss in front of the death laser is just bizarre.
 
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I think there are a few things that could have been smoothed out. Holdo and Poe's conflict comes to mind. Holdo had reason to suspect a spy, and could have distrusted a plan from a disgraced pilot, his stormtrooper friend and the skills/knowledge of a mere mechanic. A couple of lines and she could have been an obstacle for Poe, but also much more understandable in her decision making.

The big one for me though is the execution of the Finn sacrifice fake-out. I think it is staged incorrectly and does a lot to sink Rose's popularity. I think the scene plays better if it is more apparent that Finn will fail in his attempt, and if Rose has a less destructive solution to the problem (dragging him back with a tow-cable maybe?). The scene should be a dramatic rescue, but it reads like Rose stupidly spoiled a heroic sacrifice, nearly killing them both in the process. I know what the scene is doing, but it feels like it is slightly out of tune. The kiss in front of the death laser is just bizarre.

I'm just going to chalk this down to disagreement. I never felt Finn was being prevented from making some type of heroic sacrifice. I thought the movie made it very clear that he was going to fail. Granted, her crashing into him to save them is a little sloppy and that maybe could have been changed, but the inherent idea that he was committing suicide for no reason I do think came across in the movie. Likewise, Poe spend this whole movie like a hot head, so Holdo not trusting him felt genuine to me. Why trust the guy who is constantly going off and doing his own thing? So honestly, those works just fine for me for the most part.
 
I'm just going to chalk this down to disagreement. I never felt Finn was being prevented from making some type of heroic sacrifice. I thought the movie made it very clear that he was going to fail. Granted, her crashing into him to save them is a little sloppy and that maybe could have been changed, but the inherent idea that he was committing suicide for no reason I do think came across in the movie. Likewise, Poe spend this whole movie like a hot head, so Holdo not trusting him felt genuine to me. Why trust the guy who is constantly going off and doing his own thing? So honestly, those works just fine for me for the most part.

Neither kill the movie for me, but I can see why they bother people. I wish TROS's problems were only this deep, ha
 
Personally, as flawed as I find Rise of Skywalker, it doesn't bug me as much as Last Jedi. Maybe it's just that this time I was expecting it, but a lot of the stuff that bugged me the most was just continuing where Last Jedi had already irritated me. I do wish they had left Rose in a larger role though. If there was one thing I could cite as liking in Last Jedi, it was Kelly Marie Tran's performance. In a movie where I find a lot of the main cast suddenly feel stilted and flat, she's a breath of fresh air. I didn't like the writing for Rose though, as I felt like she went from a good character in her first scene to basically just being an awkward mouthpiece to state the themes, and I was looking forward to hopefully matching her with some writing I liked more. There's that scene that we have a photo of where she's in the control room with Rey and, as much as I don't like that she's stuck on the base instead of getting to hang out with everyone, I would have liked to have at least seen that.
 
I got the impression that Jannah was created as a romantic interest for Finn, as Rey was intended to be a virginal Force God (quote from an article I read online believe it or not) and Rose was shafted because a load of bigots hated her.

Rose being reduced to a bit part, and Kylo/Ben's death treated as an afterthought by the main cast are my two biggest beefs with the film.
 
For me, I think when TROS started to feel off was when i heard "palpatine has returned". I think the fact that it felt like it came out of nowhere really hurt a bit. I do enjoy parts of the movie for sure, but Its a shame that it couldn't have been so much more
 
See, I could have got over things like a character I like being sidelined in this movie and things like that if what you're offering me in this movie it's good enough to justify that decision. The problem I have with this movie is everything it tries to execute for itself just doesn't work. It directly contradicts its own message many times, crumbles under the weight of too many plot threads, and just does it satisfy on any front in which it's trying to satisfy. That is inevitably my biggest beef with this movie.
 
TLJ answered things, it was just in an unexpected way. It also opened up the doors for Star Wars to do something different for once. Sadly, TROS took the amazing set up of TFA, and the questions posed by TLJ, and decided to do something safe simply because some people, over dramatically, decided to make a movie mean life or death for them. There was no "undoing" of the force awakens in TLJ, there was simply answers that people weren't expecting.

TROS is a reactionary film in pretty much every way and its blatantly obvious when watching it.
I think TLJ is also a reaciionary movie.

Killing snoke isn't answering things. It's avoiding the question. Handwaving Rey as a nobody isn't really an answer, to me. But again more of a handwave, to me. If the reveal isn't a reveal of anything, i think it's not really needed. I think it doesn't really mean anything, as Rey has no reason to think her parents are somebodies and this reveal has no reason to change her perception.

I don't think TLJ really posed questions that were interesting. Isn't making a movie mean more than it does, what some are doing about what TROS doing in regards to TLJ? I don't see how there was much that wasnt safe with TLJ
Well, it does to me.
I will NEVER send death threats to any of those involved in this film. It's unpleasant, childish and ridiculous.

I have a twitter account but chose not to engage with John Boyega over his immature behaviour. Let him vent, it makes no difference to me. I actually liked his character, and I think Finn was let down along with every other character in TROS.
I grew up with the SW films. I used them as much needed escapism through bad times. Unlike other OT fans, I didn't mind the fates of Han, Luke and Leia because they still had a happy ending post TROS. They lived mostly good lives, and had plenty of good years.
Most of all, they had a descendant.
Which is why killing off Ben is what for me, destroyed the entire saga. You can go on and on about Saint Rey taking the Skywalker name, but this series of films for me will always be about the bad guy winning. Palpatine wanted to erase Anakin's bloodline.
And that is exactly what he did.
As a result my affection for this franchise has been forever destroyed. Am I angry? Am I disappointed. Yes to both.
But mostly....I'm just sad.
The above post wasn't about Boyega's behaviour, fans bad reactions etc.

Ben was setup to be the villain by TLJ. I don't see how any version following the structure of TLJ would've been different.

The bad guy died. he lost. He didn't even end the bloodline. Ben ended himself.
 
I think TLJ is also a reaciionary movie.

Killing snoke isn't answering things. It's avoiding the question. Handwaving Rey as a nobody isn't really an answer, to me. But again more of a handwave, to me. If the reveal isn't a reveal of anything, i think it's not really needed. I think it doesn't really mean anything, as Rey has no reason to think her parents are somebodies and this reveal has no reason to change her perception.

I don't think TLJ really posed questions that were interesting. Isn't making a movie mean more than it does, what some are doing about what TROS doing in regards to TLJ? I don't see how there was much that wasnt safe with TLJ
with Rey being a nobody, I see that as being an answer, it's just an answer you either love or hate. Personally, I thought it was a great way to show not everybody needs to be born and bred from a skywalker. The only reason people thought they were significant is because I think star wars fans, as a whole, also expect setups like that. The Force Awakens, intentionally or not, did set that up and thats not a bad thing. However, I think the answer always being what we expect isn't a good thing either and theres no law saying it had to matter. the idea that Rey has to accept that her parents aren't special is very good for character growth.

Also, The Last Jedi is an original film though, to your last point. My point when i called TROS safe is that it deliberately does stuff we have seen before and disguises itself as "comfort food" in order to not jolt people into something they weren't expecting. Everything in the film we've seen or almost seen before. Including the celebration at the end. That's the main thing I have an issue with for TROS. Love TLJ or not, but it's a very different kind of movie. I'd rather have a film challenge me with rich themes, to be force fed stuff to keep others from throwing a temper tantrum.
 
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I think TLJ is also a reaciionary movie.

Killing snoke isn't answering things. It's avoiding the question. Handwaving Rey as a nobody isn't really an answer, to me. But again more of a handwave, to me. If the reveal isn't a reveal of anything, i think it's not really needed. I think it doesn't really mean anything, as Rey has no reason to think her parents are somebodies and this reveal has no reason to change her perception.

You're looking at both of these plot points from the wrong perspective. It's not about answering questions, it's about character arcs. The Last Jedi is not trying to answer the question of who is snoke. It's trying to advance the character arc of Ben Solo. Snoke's origin is not relevant to that arc. Did Return of the Jedi take time out of its run time to explain to the audience help Palpatine influence Vader? Of course not because it wasn't relevant to the plot.

The same logic applies to Rey's parents. Rey at this point in the story is trying to find out what her role is in the story and she's seeking validation. The reveal of her parents being nobody of significance is supposed to challenge her quest for validation. Once again, it's about the story and not the answer. This is why that works and Rey being Palpatine's grandkid doesn't. It's because in this story, what means to the narrative makes sense. If trying to say something about being special without a special lineage. The Rise of Skywalker tries to say that same thing, but the source of her power is directly related to her blood. That's contradicting the very idea that the movie is trying to convey. That's why Ryan Johnson wrote a good movie while JJ Abrams and Chris Terrio wrote a bad movie. Rian Johnson is not avoiding questions, he's using those plot thread to move the story in a direction related to the themes he's trying to convey with his movie.
 
Adding to my above point, because I know someone is going to try to point out that we learn about Palpatine's rise to power in episodes 1 through 3, if you're an audience member that saw Return of the Jedi in 1983, then you would have walked out not knowing anything about where Emperor Palpatine came from and how he came to power. But, Return of the Jedi is not a bad movie for avoiding this. It's just not telling that story. Same thing with The Last Jedi. Making a movie is not about just building lure. It's about telling a story. I know we like to prop up Marvel Studios is a great example of lure builders, but the reason they succeed is because they try to make good movies first and building the lore is something they do as a supplement to whatever story they're trying to tell. They don't typically make movies that exist solely to advance certain stories. If it ain't relevant to your story, then it shouldn't be there.
 
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I think TLJ is also a reaciionary movie.

Killing snoke isn't answering things. It's avoiding the question. Handwaving Rey as a nobody isn't really an answer, to me. But again more of a handwave, to me. If the reveal isn't a reveal of anything, i think it's not really needed. I think it doesn't really mean anything, as Rey has no reason to think her parents are somebodies and this reveal has no reason to change her perception.

I don't think TLJ really posed questions that were interesting. Isn't making a movie mean more than it does, what some are doing about what TROS doing in regards to TLJ? I don't see how there was much that wasnt safe with TLJThe above post wasn't about Boyega's behaviour, fans bad reactions etc.

Ben was setup to be the villain by TLJ. I don't see how any version following the structure of TLJ would've been different.

The bad guy died. he lost. He didn't even end the bloodline. Ben ended himself.

Ben Solo was never meant to be the bad guy.
He was the child of Han and Leia. Luke's nephew.
Hux was a bad guy. Snoke was a bad guy.

George Lucas described Anakin as a victim. Palpatine, who took vulnerable young men and corrupted them, was the ultimate bad guy.

And he won.
His bloodline survives. Anakin's doesn't.
End of.
 
Ben Solo was never meant to be the bad guy.
He was the child of Han and Leia. Luke's nephew.
Hux was a bad guy. Snoke was a bad guy.

Kylo Ren was a villain in 7 & 8, to such an extent that both feature an opportunity to change and he chooses evil instead. Both times. His character pitch was as an inversion of what came before in the series - a dark character who felt a pull to the light.
 
Ben Solo was never meant to be the bad guy.
He was the child of Han and Leia. Luke's nephew.
Hux was a bad guy. Snoke was a bad guy.

George Lucas described Anakin as a victim. Palpatine, who took vulnerable young men and corrupted them, was the ultimate bad guy.

And he won.
His bloodline survives. Anakin's doesn't.
End of.
TLJ as far as I know was develop with the idea to set up Kylo as a villain. Appaently in DOTF Ben was going to die anyway. What does it matter?

I'd describe Anakin as someone who makes bad choices for selfish end. And Palpatine manipulating that for his own ends.

Why would Palp care aboout his bloodline? He died. He didn't want to die. he lost.
with Rey being a nobody, I see that as being an answer, it's just an answer you either love or hate. Personally, I thought it was a great way to show not everybody needs to be born and bred from a skywalker. The only reason people thought they were significant is because I think star wars fans, as a whole, also expect setups like that. The Force Awakens, intentionally or not, did set that up and thats not a bad thing. However, I think the answer always being what we expect isn't a good thing either and theres no law saying it had to matter. the idea that Rey has to accept that her parents aren't special is very good for character growth.

Also, The Last Jedi is an original film though, to your last point. My point when i called TROS safe is that it deliberately does stuff we have seen before and disguises itself as "comfort food" in order to not jolt people into something they weren't expecting. Everything in the film we've seen or almost seen before. Including the celebration at the end. That's the main thing I have an issue with for TROS. Love TLJ or not, but it's a very different kind of movie. I'd rather have a film challenge me with rich themes, to be force fed stuff to keep others from throwing a temper tantrum.
I think it doesn't add anything to the story or the character and by the nature of that, I think it doesn't have much of point.

Other movies in this franchise have already had main characters not be skywalkers, so I think trying to make that point has little meaning. There was no reason the character had to expect them to be special, and in relation to that, I think that leaves little point to the story.

I think it's a movie repeating things from ESB/ROTJ, like TFA was ANH/ESB. I think none of these movies bring much new to the table.
You're looking at both of these plot points from the wrong perspective. It's not about answering questions, it's about character arcs. The Last Jedi is not trying to answer the question of who is snoke. It's trying to advance the character arc of Ben Solo. Snoke's origin is not relevant to that arc. Did Return of the Jedi take time out of its run time to explain to the audience help Palpatine influence Vader? Of course not because it wasn't relevant to the plot.

The same logic applies to Rey's parents. Rey at this point in the story is trying to find out what her role is in the story and she's seeking validation. The reveal of her parents being nobody of significance is supposed to challenge her quest for validation. Once again, it's about the story and not the answer. This is why that works and Rey being Palpatine's grandkid doesn't. It's because in this story, what means to the narrative makes sense. If trying to say something about being special without a special lineage. The Rise of Skywalker tries to say that same thing, but the source of her power is directly related to her blood. That's contradicting the very idea that the movie is trying to convey. That's why Ryan Johnson wrote a good movie while JJ Abrams and Chris Terrio wrote a bad movie. Rian Johnson is not avoiding questions, he's using those plot thread to move the story in a direction related to the themes he's trying to convey with his movie.
ROTJ wasn't a part of a trilogy coming off of another trilogy where the story had concluded. Palpatine wasn't a villain coming off of another villain in the previous trilogy. They had no prior established story to compare and contrast it to. By having Snoke in TFA, questions were raised. By killing Snoke and not giving an answer to them in the movies, those questions were left unanswered. I think avoided.

That doesn't connect with who her character is established as. She's not seeking validation in the previous, to the point that she outright disregards her mentor figure Han to go back to jakku and none of this connects to her parents or why she'd think her parents being special adds to her story in regards to this and them being somebody. I would suggest the Palpatine is another subversion of that idea, the idea of trying to find her place and to find that her place is a villainous connection. I'd also suggest that the angle of not having a genetic bloodline making someone special isn;t new and was showcased in the prequels with as far as I know many of the jedi, and I think this makes tryng to make a thing out of this have not much of a point.

As far as Kylo, the killing of Snoke doesn't change him. It means nothing to his character. He already tried to attack Snoke at the beginning of the movie. He's shown to still be emotionally rampant. The story dynamics aent changed by Kylo being leader. It's dark side user leading a storm trooper army.

And by how these things were devloped in this movie, I think the movie is more repeating plot beats of OT, only having the characters involved be dumb for the sake of plot, not making a good movie.
 
TLJ as far as I know was develop with the idea to set up Kylo as a villain. Appaently in DOTF Ben was going to die anyway. What does it matter?

I'd describe Anakin as someone who makes bad choices for selfish end. And Palpatine manipulating that for his own ends.

Why would Palp care aboout his bloodline? He died. He didn't want to die. he lost.
I think it doesn't add anything to the story or the character and by the nature of that, I think it doesn't have much of point.

Other movies in this franchise have already had main characters not be skywalkers, so I think trying to make that point has little meaning. There was no reason the character had to expect them to be special, and in relation to that, I think that leaves little point to the story.

I think it's a movie repeating things from ESB/ROTJ, like TFA was ANH/ESB. I think none of these movies bring much new to the table.ROTJ wasn't a part of a trilogy coming off of another trilogy where the story had concluded. Palpatine wasn't a villain coming off of another villain in the previous trilogy. They had no prior established story to compare and contrast it to. By having Snoke in TFA, questions were raised. By killing Snoke and not giving an answer to them in the movies, those questions were left unanswered. I think avoided.

That doesn't connect with who her character is established as. She's not seeking validation in the previous, to the point that she outright disregards her mentor figure Han to go back to jakku and none of this connects to her parents or why she'd think her parents being special adds to her story in regards to this and them being somebody. I would suggest the Palpatine is another subversion of that idea, the idea of trying to find her place and to find that her place is a villainous connection. I'd also suggest that the angle of not having a genetic bloodline making someone special isn;t new and was showcased in the prequels with as far as I know many of the jedi, and I think this makes tryng to make a thing out of this have not much of a point.

As far as Kylo, the killing of Snoke doesn't change him. It means nothing to his character. He already tried to attack Snoke at the beginning of the movie. He's shown to still be emotionally rampant. The story dynamics aent changed by Kylo being leader. It's dark side user leading a storm trooper army.

And by how these things were devloped in this movie, I think the movie is more repeating plot beats of OT, only having the characters involved be dumb for the sake of plot, not making a good movie.

Return of the Jedi was listed as episode 6 upon release. But regardless, no you don't need to address that kind of backstory regardless of it's a new trilogy with or without prior installments. What matters is the movie you're making. If its not relevant, then it doesn't matter. It's not avoiding. It's focusing on what is actually important top your story. Bad stories waste time on trivial things.

Killing Snoke absolutely changes him. It frees him of the control of others. He no longer is a slave to the Jedi or Sith ways. He's his own master. That's absolutely a change.
 
For me, I think when TROS started to feel off was when i heard "palpatine has returned". I think the fact that it felt like it came out of nowhere really hurt a bit. I do enjoy parts of the movie for sure, but Its a shame that it couldn't have been so much more

For me TROS started feeling off when Palpatine opened his mouth :o
 
It's always going to boil down to this - when you set up a 3 act structure to go a specific direction and then you purposely alter the direction in Act 2 you are only ever going to get a fractured story. People can claim as much as they want it's a bold choice, but if it doesn't cohere with both Acts 1 and 3 then it doesn't really matter how well executed it is. You cannot have a story that sets things up one way only then to go in the most bizarre direction because it loses its meaning. Imagine the old joke 'A horse walks into a bar, the bartender asks 'Why the long face?' and changing it to say 'A horse walks into a bar, the bartender asks 'What can I get you?', the entire context is now different. It may still make sense, but it's not the right answer if you're trying to write a joke.
 
TLJ answered things, it was just in an unexpected way. It also opened up the doors for Star Wars to do something different for once.
No, it didn’t.

It was movie 8 of a 9 film saga, and part 2 of a 3 part trilogy.

All it did was kill any momentum from TFA for Rey and Finn, the more important characters, give Luke a sad epilogue that ultimately didn’t add anything major to the plot of the Sequel Trilogy, and leave the First Order handicapped as a villainous faction by making them idiots, then putting a still immature and now less threatening Kylo in charge, who it also wants the audience to care about more than is warranted.

When people say they wanted Star Wars to go somewhere new, or do something different, I always wonder if they know that Rogue One came out. Or that Knights of the Old Republic was a thing.

Because Star Wars was already doing other stuff if you found the Skywalker Saga boring or predictable. The only thing TLJ did was out all the resonance of the family story on the neo-Nazi mass murderer, patricide, and would-be mind rapist... at the expense of the actual main characters of the ST.

Because TLJ is ironically the most Skywalker obsessed film of the ST, the one that banishes the non-Skywalker heroes from the final climax.

It’s also even more dogmatically dedicated to recreating the “Empire vs Rebels” thing than TFA was, weirdly; there sure as hell isn't anything new there.

Rey and Finn mattered more to this Trilogy than Luke did, as weird as that my sound, and both mattered far more than Kylo. But TLJ was interest only in those two.
I got the impression that Jannah was created as a romantic interest for Finn, as Rey was intended to be a virginal Force God (quote from an article I read online believe it or not) and Rose was shafted because a load of bigots hated her.
Alternatively...

Finn was meant to be Rey’s love interest when created (thus why they have the best relationship in any of movies during TFA).

Then TLJ wanted Rey to be Kylo abused girlfriend for no good reason, and introduced a not-Rey alternative for Finn, but fundamentally failed to make Rose value to the audience beyond KMT’s skills when she was still shackled by bad and boring writing.

Then Abrams gets stuck having to honor the trashy version of Reylo from TLJ in TROS (it didn’t have to be trashy or abusive, but TLJ made it so, and nothing else), but found Rose just kind of a boring character, so he substituted in a character more similar to Rey.

So it’s three screwups: Johnson breaking apart one good relationship for two bad ones, failing to make his newest character good, then Abrams refusing to rehabilitate Rose, which would have been the better move.
Rey being a nobody, I see that as being an answer, it's just an answer you either love or hate. Personally, I thought it was a great way to show not everybody needs to be born and bred from a skywalker. The only reason people thought they were significant is because I think star wars fans, as a whole, also expect setups like that. The Force Awakens, intentionally or not, did set that up and thats not a bad thing.
...and then TLJ rigidly treated only Skywalkers as mattering to the story, which is why Rey gets stuck acting as an audience member when Luke’s around and turned into a plot tool to advance Kylo’s story and worship the idea he’s sympathetic when he’s... well, just saying “Not” wouldn’t be hard enough to describe how loathsome he is. And TLJ has the temerity to argue that his feelings matter more than her or her friends suffering.

Meanwhile, Finn, a character who was indisputably always meant to be the non-Skywalker hero once he was created from the splitting of the first draft’s male lead... gets shuffled off to have no impact on the plot.

Meanwhile, Luke and Kylo get the climax all to themselves.

TLJ is the worst possible proponent of any kind of Everyman message, and actually punishes Rey for not being a Skywalker.

It may not have been the intention of Johnson, but he had a Skywalker tell the main hero: “You’re no one...” and effectively banish her from having her story matter to the film afterwards. He goes on to face legendary hero Luke Skywalker, who’s story has focused more on him than on Rey, while she becomes a glorified Uber driver with Chewie, who doesn’t even get a scene to show her facing the conundrum of a knocked out mass murder who’s just redeclared his intent to kill her friends and rule the Galaxy with an iron fist...

...Because t9 TLJ, who cares what a non-Skywalker thinks?
It's because in this story, what means to the narrative makes sense. If trying to say something about being special without a special lineage. The Rise of Skywalker tries to say that same thing, but the source of her power is directly related to her blood.
And again, TLJ only cared about the Skywalker for its climax...

...And TLJ just said her source of power is directly related to the dude who tried to mind-rape her.

She’s dependent on a previous character regardless. Its basically elitism (which Kylo has for himself) or victimization.

And her’s kind of my thing, in agreement with this post:
That doesn't connect with who her character is established as. She's not seeking validation in the previous, to the point that she outright disregards her mentor figure Han to go back to jakku and none of this connects to her parents or why she'd think her parents being special adds to her story in regards to this and them being somebody.
TLJ neutered it’s own version of Rey by taking what was a character focused question that has major impact on Rey’s established character (“Why won’t my parents come back for me?”) by changing the question into one that bases her character off of others (“Who were my parents?”)

TFA could afford to say “I’m sorry, we don’t know, you have to move past that,” and then have Rey, as a character, deal with that answer for the rest of the film.

TLJ answered it’s question as “Nobody...” and instead of giving her a part of the film to deal with there, shoved her out of the way.
 
Sequels and trilogies don't have to have a long-term road map. It's a way to do it, but it's not the only way to it. I will never agree with your assertion that TROS was doomed because TLJ did unexpected things. That's just bullcrap and making excuses. Writing a bad movie doomed TROS. Which multiple people on that movie are at fault for.
 

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