The Rise of Skywalker General Star Wars Episode IX News/Speculation Thread - Part 1

[jmc]

It was always doomed if the intention was to tell a 3 Act story. With things like Toy Story or even TDK Trilogy the individual movies are there to tell a complete story first and foremost that just happen to be set in the same world. Star Wars is far more akin to LOTR where it's essentially one big story told over the course of 3 movies, an elongated 3 act structure.

 

[Donner]

I'll never understand people blaming TLJ for showing Kylo Ren as a sympathetic character when TFA's novel explained that Snoke was manipulating Ben since birth and that he fought against destroying the Hosnian System.

But I suppose when someone's mind is made up, no amount of evidence to the contrary will sway them.

 

[Spider-Fan]

It was always doomed if the intention was to tell a 3 Act story. With things like Toy Story or even TDK Trilogy the individual movies are there to tell a complete story first and foremost that just happen to be set in the same world. Star Wars is far more akin to LOTR where it's essentially one big story told over the course of 3 movies, an elongated 3 act structure.

100% disagree. Star Wars is definitely much closer to something like TDKT than LOTR. Star Wars is a serial. Meaning each serial has it's own beginning, middle, and end like a TV show would. Each movie is basically like a new season. They're all stories unto themselves that are set in a specific time time period during a conflict. It's a setting. LOTR is literally 1 story. 1 story broken into 3 parts cause you can't stop people on watching a 12 hour film. So your analysis I find to just be completely wrong.

 

[fan4stic]

Return of the Jedi was listed as episode 6 upon release. But regardless, no you don't need to address that kind of backstory regardless of it's a new trilogy with or without prior installments. What matters is the movie you're making. If its not relevant, then it doesn't matter. It's not avoiding. It's focusing on what is actually important top your story. Bad stories waste time on trivial things.

Killing Snoke absolutely changes him. It frees him of the control of others. He no longer is a slave to the Jedi or Sith ways. He's his own master. That's absolutely a change.

ROTJ was the r3rd movie in the OT, with no story before that trilogy at the start of this franchise, developed on screen. There's no expectation for the world, as the world is being developed over the course of this first trilog. The prequels are explaining that.

I think to have a consistent story overall, I think that works stronger. It's a continuation of a prior established story, using characters and setting from a prior establisjed story.

He's still a rampant fit thrower. The first order is still another empire. His character doesn' change, he's still a dark side user rynning a storm trooper army. i think nothing in this movie shows him change really.

100% disagree. Star Wars is definitely much closer to something like TDKT than LOTR. Star Wars is a serial. Meaning each serial has it's own beginning, middle, and end like a TV show would. Each movie is basically like a new season. They're all stories unto themselves that are set in a specific time time period during a conflict. It's a setting. LOTR is literally 1 story. 1 story broken into 3 parts cause you can't stop people on watching a 12 hour film. So your analysis I find to just be completely wrong.

I think that applied to th OT first movie and PT first movie, but not ST. They structure themselves as an overarching narrative outright from the jump. There's not much closure for the villains of the movie. The movie ends with Rey going off and finding Luke as a cliffhanger. I think even outright cliffhangs the Rey/Kylo rvialry, leaving their battle not fully complted. Leaves one of the main characters in a state of flux, with Finn. I think this movie is not as standalone as the other trilogy openers.

I'll never understand people blaming TLJ for showing Kylo Ren as a sympathetic character when TFA's novel explained that Snoke was manipulating Ben since birth and that he fought against destroying the Hosnian System.

But I suppose when someone's mind is made up, no amount of evidence to the contrary will sway them.

That wasn't in the movie. I think TLJ outright victimized the character, as a poor misunderstood individual who was betrayed at the hands of Luke while giving no other xtrong backstory for his turn, to me. While also haveing Rey, I think the main character sympathize with him and I think fawn over him. TFA didn't do that.

 

[Donner]

I don't know how many times I have to repeat it, but the books are canon. If there's stuff in there that changed the movie, that's on the movie writers. That's why TROS is such a cluster****.

 

[Spider-Fan]

ROTJ was the r3rd movie in the OT, with no story before that trilogy at the start of this franchise, developed on screen. There's no expectation for the world, as the world is being developed over the course of this first trilog. The prequels are explaining that.

I think to have a consistent story overall, I think that works stronger. It's a continuation of a prior established story, using characters and setting from a prior establisjed story.

He's still a rampant fit thrower. The first order is still another empire. His character doesn' change, he's still a dark side user rynning a storm trooper army. i think nothing in this movie shows him change really.
I think that applied to th OT first movie and PT first movie, but not ST. They structure themselves as an overarching narrative outright from the jump. There's not much closure for the villains of the movie. The movie ends with Rey going off and finding Luke as a cliffhanger. I think even outright cliffhangs the Rey/Kylo rvialry, leaving their battle not fully complted. Leaves one of the main characters in a state of flux, with Finn. I think this movie is not as standalone as the other trilogy openers.That wasn't in the movie. I think TLJ outright victimized the character, as a poor misunderstood individual who was betrayed at the hands of Luke while giving no other xtrong backstory for his turn, to me. While also haveing Rey, I think the main character sympathize with him and I think fawn over him. TFA didn't do that.

The ST never presented itself any differently than the OT or PT did. You're just holding a different standard based on this being later in the series, but filmmaking principles don't change. You tell the story you're telling. Whether it's movie 1 or movie 9. Honestly, everything you're saying this series did, the OT and PT did. It's no more overarching than any of those. With the lone exception of the original movie since that had no sequel guarantees. But since then, I don't see a difference. You're just making arbitrary excuses IMO.

 

[fan4stic]

The ST never presented itself any differently than the OT or PT did. You're just holding a different standard based on this being later in the series, but filmmaking principles don't change. You tell the story you're telling. Whether it's movie 1 or movie 9. Honestly, everything you're saying this series did, the OT and PT did. It's no more overarching than any of those. With the lone exception of the original movie since that had no sequel guarantees. But since then, I don't see a difference. You're just making arbitrary excuses IMO.

It's later in the series. I pointed out many ways that that movie is developed differetly han OT/PT. Neither of the first movies in the OT/PT end the same way as ST. I think these are different storyelling dynmics.

I don't know how many times I have to repeat it, but the books are canon. If there's stuff in there that changed the movie, that's on the movie writers. That's why TROS is such a cluster****.

The books aren't the movies and the people who write the movies aren't necessarily going to read the books. If it's not in the movie, it's not in the movie. What you're sayng isn't represented on screen, therefore the audience who watch them can't gather it and they can't percieve that info as apart of the character. If that's the case, it's not in the film.

 

[Donner]

It's part of the overall story. You can complain as much as you want, but the books are part of the storyline.

 

[Marvolo]

I know a lot of yall wanted Duel of the Fates for the saber duel, but I have to say Battle of the Heroes works pretty good.



Once again I'm left wondering why William's and Abrams didnt think of doing a variation of Battle of the Heroes, or why they chose not to. Anakin and Obi fought on wreckage on a river of lava, and Rey and Kylo fought on wreckage on a raging ocean. The visual contrast is there. A contrasting variation of Battle of the Heroes could have worked well.

As much as I love this duel it could have done more with the environment and with the score. Abrams set the duel on a raging ocean and doesnt once have Kylo or Rey use the force to manipulate and protect themselves from the waves. Kylo should have used the force to shield himself from a wave or redirected a wave to crush Rey. The tidal waves could have caused the death star wreckage to shift causing Rey and Kylo to fall and continue the duel inside and around the wreckage. Abrams had all that death star wreckage to design the fight around and he doesnt do a single interesting thing with the actual wreckage.

And I feel like we an entire section of the duel was left on the cutting room floor between Kylo jumping into the floor of the Emperor's throne room and both of them emerging onto the exterior death star wreckage on the ocean. They obviously fought their way outside. Why not show that?! It's as if we get the beginning of the fight and the end of the fight, but none of the middle.

 

[jmc]

100% disagree. Star Wars is definitely much closer to something like TDKT than LOTR. Star Wars is a serial. Meaning each serial has it's own beginning, middle, and end like a TV show would. Each movie is basically like a new season. They're all stories unto themselves that are set in a specific time time period during a conflict. It's a setting. LOTR is literally 1 story. 1 story broken into 3 parts cause you can't stop people on watching a 12 hour film. So your analysis I find to just be completely wrong.

I mean, you literally have to finish Return of the Jedi to complete the story of the original trilogy, just as you have to watch Revenge of the Sith to see Anakin's turn to Darth Vader. And The Force Awakens literally leaves you with a cliffhanger. So, the idea Star Wars hasn't always had an overarching narrative in its trilogies is odd to say the least.

 

[Marvolo]

ROS's script was nominated for a Hugo.

 

[Gothamsknight]

For me TROS started feeling off when Palpatine opened his mouth

Yeah I agree

 

[Gothamsknight]

Sequels and trilogies don't have to have a long-term road map. It's a way to do it, but it's not the only way to it. I will never agree with your assertion that TROS was doomed because TLJ did unexpected things. That's just bullcrap and making excuses. Writing a bad movie doomed TROS. Which multiple people on that movie are at fault for.

Well said

 

[fan4stic]

It's part of the overall story. You can complain as much as you want, but the books are part of the storyline.

It's not represented on screen. If it's not, I see no reason why some would care about it. It's not in the movie. According to this:

Star Wars: The Force Awakens (novelization) | Wookieepedia | Fandom

Spoiler: The novel contains several differences to the film and scenes that don't appear in the final film:

The novel opens with a scene of Leia Organa thinking about the events of the past and about having sent an exceptional Resistance pilot, Poe Dameron, to try and find her brother, Luke Skywalker. This is followed by the opening scene of the movie, in which the First Order forces on approach to Jakku. During the Attack on Tuanul, FN-2003 is killed by blaster fire from one of the Tuanul villagers instead by blaster fire of Dameron as in the film. FN-2187's failure to shoot the villagers is thought by one of his fellow troopers to be due to a "blaster jam," explaining why Captain Phasma orders him to turn in his weapon to be checked by technicians.

At Niima Outpost, rather than refusing outright Unkar Plutt's offer of 60 portions for BB-8, Rey instead bargains up. She ends up agreeing to sell him for 100 portions, but then retracts the deal and gives Plutt a piece of her mind. This burns her bridges with him, but earns her respect from many of the villagers.

In the novel, Leia sends her personal envoy, Korr Sella, to persuade the Galactic Senate to act against the First Order.

A scene depicts Dameron's encounter with a scavenger on Jakku and his escape from the planet following the crash of the stolen TIE fighter. This sequence was revisited in the comic book Poe Dameron 26, although it presents some inconsistencies.[7]

On board the Eravana, Razoo Qin-Fee is given some lines of dialogue, unlike in the film. Bala-Tik's lines are also extended. When a rathtar chases Han Solo, Solo kills a member of the Guavian Death Gang instead of a Kanjikluber.

At Takodana Castle, just after Finn's decision to try and flee the conflict, Plutt and some of his henchmen arrive and attempt to abduct Rey and BB-8. Rey tries to shoot him with the blaster Han gave her, but she has not taken the safety off, and she is quickly disarmed by Plutt. Rey is rescued by the intervention of Chewbacca, whom Plutt aggravates by poking at his wounded shoulder. Chewbacca responds by ripping off Plutt's arm. This scene was shot, but ultimately cut from the film. During Rey's Force vision, she hears a voice say, "Stay here. I'll come back for you," and "I'll come back, sweetheart, I promise."

When Starkiller Base destroys the Hosnian system, it is described as utilizing "dark energy" acquired from the sun. The destroyed planets and moons become miniature supernovae rather than slag. During a conversation between Kylo Ren and Supreme Leader Snoke, they discuss Darth Vader and his downfall, which they agree was due to "sentiment."

Finn tells the Resistance that Starkiller base uses its sun to channel dark energy, which temporarily blocks it out, rather than saying the star itself is drained until destroyed. A scene depicts Finn and Rey stealing a snowspeeder while on Starkiller Base. This starts a snowspeeder chase sequence. The chase was one of the scenes that was filmed but cut from the movie. Later, Kylo Ren leads a small group of stormtroopers to the crashed Millennium Falcon while on Starkiller Base. Ren boards the Falcon and reflects on his life before he turned to the dark side.

When Rey uses the Force to retrieve Skywalker's lightsaber, Kylo Ren quietly says to her, "It is you."

A Resistance medic informs Rey that Finn will be okay despite his injuries at the hands of Kylo Ren. Rey and Poe Dameron meet and introduce themselves to each other after the map to Luke is completed. This scene was filmed but ultimately deleted from the final cut.[8] In the films, they do not meet until the end of Star Wars: Episode VIII The Last Jedi.[9] The depiction of their first meeting in The Last Jedi was a suggestion that Star Wars: Episode IX The Rise of Skywalker original director Colin Trevorrow made to Rian Johnson for his then plans for Episode IX.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Personally, as flawed as I find Rise of Skywalker, it doesn't bug me as much as Last Jedi. Maybe it's just that this time I was expecting it, but a lot of the stuff that bugged me the most was just continuing where Last Jedi had already irritated me. I do wish they had left Rose in a larger role though. If there was one thing I could cite as liking in Last Jedi, it was Kelly Marie Tran's performance. In a movie where I find a lot of the main cast suddenly feel stilted and flat, she's a breath of fresh air. I didn't like the writing for Rose though, as I felt like she went from a good character in her first scene to basically just being an awkward mouthpiece to state the themes, and I was looking forward to hopefully matching her with some writing I liked more. There's that scene that we have a photo of where she's in the control room with Rey and, as much as I don't like that she's stuck on the base instead of getting to hang out with everyone, I would have liked to have at least seen that.

My thoughts exactly. TROS isn't good and some of it does dissapoint me. But those things are were the for me the crappy threads left over from TLJ. TROS actually works better as a sequel to TFA in a weird way. And it doesn't piss me off no where near as much as TLJ did and still does.

I have never given Rian Johnson abuse over Twitter BTW, and never will, but I will never like the Star Wars movie he did either, and it's just got worse for me when I tried to give the movie a few re-watches.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

I don't know how many times I have to repeat it, but the books are canon. If there's stuff in there that changed the movie, that's on the movie writers. That's why TROS is such a cluster****.

You can say it as much as you like, but out of the millions of people who watched this sequel, comparatively a handful of those will have read the books. For 90% or more of people who watched the movies and didn't read the books, none of them are canon, and we instead have to go by what is presented in the movies. In which case Kylo was absolutely an evil villain in TFA and TLJ.

 

[jmc]

What was shocking to me was just how quickly my interest died in the franchise. I was never a diehard SW fan, but I've always loved the original movies and loved speculating about what would come next. As ordinary as the prequels were at the very least I wanted to see how it ended. The moment I walked out of TLJ I felt was the most numbing movie experience I've ever had, because I didn't feel anything. I felt no desire to watch the next film, not because I was angry, but because there was nothing for me to look forward to. The story simply felt over. All the build up in Episode 7 completely let out by Episode 8. All I could think about was there was nowhere left to go in the story which was more or less proven right in Episode 9. It become clear very quickly there was never a plan in place for the series, and that's what angered me the most. When there's no love for the thing being made then the company cant expect fans to stick around.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I mean, you literally have to finish Return of the Jedi to complete the story of the original trilogy, just as you have to watch Revenge of the Sith to see Anakin's turn to Darth Vader. And The Force Awakens literally leaves you with a cliffhanger. So, the idea Star Wars hasn't always had an overarching narrative in its trilogies is odd to say the least.

Overarching story is not the same as being 1 story. The MCU had an overarching story from Iron Man through Endgame, but it wasn't all 1 story. It was a collection of smaller ones. That's what Star Wars is. Each movie is a self contained piece in a larger narrative. LOTR is literally 1 story. So again, you're wrong.

 

[Sian]

I loved TLJ. Which is why TROS, putting it simply, broke my heart.
The only comfort I have is I'll not be wasting my money on any stuff they do from now on. I have zero interest in more stories set in the past, and whatever Rey and co. get up to in the future.

 

[Donner]

I loved TLJ. Which is why TROS, putting it simply, broke my heart.
The only comfort I have is I'll not be wasting my money on any stuff they do from now on. I have zero interest in more stories set in the past, and whatever Rey and co. get up to in the future.

Rey and co. are simply too boring now. There's nothing interesting about them (TROS ruined any character development from TLJ). Rey, Finn and Poe could never be the "trio" from the OT because their relationships were barely cultivated. The hug at the end of TROS was so forced.

 

[Gothamsknight]

sadly, as someone who loves the characters of Rey and Kylo Ren, I feel TROS really dampened their characters. especially Rey. I still love the characters, but TROS really made her less compelling sadly.

 

[BatLobster]

I think the bones for a great arc were there for Rey, with her having to grapple with being the descendent of the her adopted family's tormenter and the worst evil in the galaxy. There's very mythic and emotional stuff there, especially in context with the driving idea behind her journey in this trilogy being one of searching for belonging. Yes it rhymes, and that's more than fine with me. I just don't think it was executed to all its potential, and it ends up feeling a bit superficial by the end.

Again, there is pretty much no issue in this film that I don't think could've been solved by simply making a longer, meatier film. That's the thing I constantly find myself coming back to. I also do really think with the Leia/Rey relationship being so crucial to this film, they were in a terribly unfortunate situation. That's just the reality.

TROS's issues literally have nothing to do with TLJ. If you hated TLJ and it tanked your interest in the franchise, OK, you're entitled to that, but it is 100% fair game to look at TROS as its own film and judge it by its own merits. People act as if this movie was some sort of filmmaking Kobayashi Maru, and I just have never subscribed to that. In a universe as rich as Star Wars, there is always always, always a chance for creativity and imagination to triumph. That is the whole point of the thing. At least it's supposed to be.

And mind you, third films are always the trickiest. I think for me TROS is nowhere near as bad as it could've been given the circumstances and what is was up against, but also nowhere near as good as it should've been given that it was the 9-film wrap up. It's hanging somewhere in the middle for me, which inevitably is disappointing.

 

[Sian]

The Palpatine relationship was left far too late to be revealed. It also didn't help that his return happened before the film. It was almost as if you'd walked in to the cinema half an hour after it started!

 

[Blade Hoarder]

Have you guys seen TROS' editor SLAM Rian Johnson in a BLISTERING takedown? Holy ish!

 

[Spider-Fan]

You mean the editors making excuses? Yes I did. But as I have said for pages, JJ and Terrio wrote a bad film and made a bad film. 100% their fault. No one told them to make a bad film.