The Rise of Skywalker General Star Wars Episode IX News/Speculation Thread - Part 1

[Sian]

Not suddenly. Three years have passed between AOTC and ROTS, and Anakin had spent those three years fighting in a war. That can change and mature a person. Plus he is no longer a teenage padawan.



Whats giving you that idea?

Things going on in the SW comics.

 

[GREEN =w= DAY]

I have a very bad feeling, to quote Han Solo, that the comics are going to hint that Rey is Anakin Reborn.

God, I hope not!

 

[Sian]

I wouldn't put anything past Disney these days!

 

[Marvolo]

The fanbase likes to joke about Darth Jar Jar, but I found some fan art that takes the idea of Jar Jar or any gungan consumed by the dark side seriously, and well, its pretty ****ing cool.

Art by Kevin Cassidy

 

[Sian]

That's incredible. Fan art and fan fiction is often much better than the official stuff!

 

[Mysteryman]

Anybody watching "Tony Goes To The Super Bowl" on CBS right now?
Tony Romo just interviewed Aaron Rodgers.
Rodgers was wearing a TROS T-Shirt.
So, I throw it out to you guys.
Does Rodgers represent The Jedi Or The Sith?

 

[Sian]

Maybe the gods of bad filmmaking?

 

[TheVileOne]

That doesn't even look like a gungan. People need to stop trying to make Darth Jar Jar happen.

 

[Sian]

It's FANART. People know quite well Darth JarJar won't happen. They are just enjoying their own fantasies and harming no one. Unlike Terrio, who Disney paid to put his rubbish on film, ruin a nine movie saga and end one of the best space operas of all time on the most depressing note possible.

 

[GREEN =w= DAY]

It's FANART. People know quite well Darth JarJar won't happen. They are just enjoying their own fantasies and harming no one. Unlike Terrio, who Disney paid to put his rubbish on film, ruin a nine movie saga and end one of the best space operas of all time on the most depressing note possible.

Ehhh...

I’d go as far to say that the saga was ruined way before Terrio’s involvement. Rian Johnson and to a certain degree JJ Abrams started this s*** show

 

[Sian]

To be honest, I loved TLJ. And TFA was fun. But TROS was frankly a terrible film. Leaving aside the killing off of the last real Skywalker and the elevation of Rey to silly godhood status, it was a badly made movie. No plot, story all over the place, bad dialogue.....it looked more like one of those B movies that came out post A New Hope. For all their sins the prequels had strong storylines, and benefitted from great performances from Ewan McGregor, Ian McDiarmid, Liam Neeson and Christopher Lee. I still can't get over what a poor film TROS was. Half an hour into it I couldn't believe it was an actual SW film.

 

[TheVileOne]

I'll say this, one of these days it wouldn't surprise me if they do a High Republic story with like an evil Gungan or something. Then clickbait websites will theorize that he's Jar Jar's grandfather.

 

[BatLobster]

I was actually theorizing about a Dark Gungan storyline with my buddy the other day just for fun. Nothing to do with Jar Jar. But yeah, like....the whole under water society thing is a pretty unique thing in the Star Wars universe. What if some dark side secrets were hidden down there thousands of years ago, far out of the view of the Jedi? I think there are actually places you could go with that if you wanted.

Again, I repeat, nothing to do with Jar Jar. Not saying I want or need this to happen either, but it's just an example of how vast and rich with possibility the universe is.

 

[Sian]

And that is what is so disappointing about the end film....all that vastness and possibility....and they ended it with a third rate rip off of ROTJ.
The whole thing seemed to be a rushed, hasty way of getting rid of the Skywalker family so Disney could play with their own toys.

 

[Marvolo]

That doesn't even look like a gungan. People need to stop trying to make Darth Jar Jar happen.

It looks like a gungan with some darkside mutations and deliberate anatomical alterations and the typical biological variations that the canon has established for gungans.

 

[henzINNIT]

I genuinely wouldn't have minded seeing Jar Jar again in the ST. The heroes could have found sanctuary with the gunguns or something. Might have been fun to have 'Boss Binks' with an updated design. As someone who doesn't like the prequels, I think they needed more love.

 

[Sian]

For all their faults, the prequels had a strong storyline.....the gradual erosion of the Old Republic's belief system and its replacement with the Empire, the fall of the Jedi order, not in part due to their own hubris, and the rise of Palpatine. The words of Padme Amidala, 'this is how freedom dies, with a cheer' still chills me.

Sadly despite the promise they showed, the ST will always, at least for me, serve just one purpose - the end of the Skywalker bloodline. That is their heart and soul, such as it is, not the Jedi and Sith's extreme views of black and white being replaced by a new kind of 'grey' order where light and dark find a balance, and thus the sins and mistakes of the past won't happen again. That is what I thought the message of the ST was going to be.

Instead it simply was an excuse to kill off all of the heroes and their descendants, and replace them with someone else. That they chose to make that someone else a Palpatine is the final insult.

 

[TheVileOne]

It looks like a gungan with some darkside mutations and deliberate anatomical alterations and the typical biological variations that the canon has established for gungans.

In other words, fan fiction.

 

[antsman41]

Darth Jar Jar is more believable than Palpatine (coming back...), Rey being a Palpatine, and Rey falling in love/kissing Ben Solo.

 

[BatLobster]

I don't get why people say Palpatine coming back isn't believable. Just cause you didn't like it doesn't mean it's not believable in the story. He was the the most evil/powerful Sith in the saga, who openly talked about cheating death. Also the same guy who created an entire clone army. His entire goal was to cling to power forever. It's really not a stretch to think he might have had a backup clone somewhere and a contingency for continuing his rule in the event of his demise. I mean the Palpatine clone thing is something the EU had already done in Dark Empire.

This is space fantasy. If we're willing to accept the Darth Maul survived, Boba Fett survived (I'll bet anything, eventually we'll learn Mace Windu survived), why are we hesitant to accept that the top villain of the entire saga could come back?

I'm asking a genuine question here. It's totally fair game to just say "I didn't like it, wish he didn't come back", but I don't get acting as if there's just no way this could've happened in a pulpy space fantasy story. At least there were seeds planted in the story with the Plagueis thing and him being obsessed with cheating death that could retroactively be framed as foreshadowing. There was no such foreshadowing for Boba Fett or Darth Maul, and those just feel more like blatant retcons.

That said, the execution of him coming back was terrible, and you shouldn't have to read outside sources to understand how he came back, so that part I do get. It should have felt a lot bigger in the film. I'm just talking about the premise of it happening on paper. It actually makes more sense than other character death retcons in the franchise.

 

[antsman41]

Ok... I meant it wasn’t believable due to their writing.

I have read additional novels and comics, but 96% of the GA didn’t. Write it into the film, how hard is it? Just don’t use a off-hand comment about the power of the Sith, by Charlie from LOST.

Mention his attempts from the Aftermath trilogy, mind you... those were attempts that failed. So, either way it truly wasn’t possible without JJ’s magic wand of no explanation.

 

[BatLobster]

Fair enough. Believe me, I wasn't happy about the way it was handled in the film because I went in actually wanting to get behind that aspect and they gave you so little.

Apparently there was a longer monologue with Palpatine explaining his return that they cut. I can understand not wanting to get overly exposition-y and removing all sense of mystery, but I believe they went too far between announcing his return in the crawl and then handwaving it. It was just something that deserved to feel bigger, IMO.

That said, the in-canon explanation (essentially cloning + and essence transfer) isn't terrible and basically along the lines of what I would've imagined.

 

[henzINNIT]

I believe anything can work if you handle it right. Palps was a hard sell and it required more work than none at all. Ultimately I think his return was reactionary, filling a hole that didn't need filling. Worse still, incorporating Palps is normally the reason why TROS walks back on some of the best things 8 did. His appearance completely nerfs Supreme Leader Kylo, and he's why Rey from nowhere became Rey from somewhere.

 

[BatLobster]

Rey's lineage was a hole that did need filling though. It did. Making a big fuss about the mystery of who she is for nearly 2 movies, only to unceremoniously drop it and never have it explored again...I do not think that would've been good storytelling. I mean, sure, it's a major subversion of a classic Star Wars trope. That doesn't make it an inherently good story. TLJ also did nothing with it. Imagine Kylo and Rey never had the "nobody discussion", and he simply tried to lure her to the dark side. She refuses, they destroy the lightsaber and everything plays out as is. It literally has no any bearing on the rest of the film.

I do not have a problem with the "nobody" reveal in TLJ as a thematic beat and a red herring mind you, I think it works to push Rey to accept thats she must define herself rather than a bloodline. It was also a good way to reveal that she's NOT a Skywalker and something is 'different' about this story. But more context is needed than that. Otherwise it just feels like you messed with the audience's expectations for the sake of it. And I've yet to hear a coherent argument as to why someone from obscurity emerge as the hero of the Skywalker Saga works as a good ending for the saga that bears their name as a whole. Even the Palpatine thing, while controversial, at least that has a layer of dramatic irony to it. The Skywalkers take in the spawn of their enemy and show her love and guidance, and ultimately defeat him. The opposite of what he did to Anakin. There's some poetry in that. Rey being a nobody just feels like a non sequitur. Mythologically, I don't think it flows. It feels too meta.

As for Palps....well, yeah. The ST had a major villain/reason for existing problem from the the very beginning. Particularly when you're trying to follow up on a story that had a satisfying ending and wrapped things up rather neatly.

It all just comes down to the fact that TFA didn't lay the best foundation for the new trilogy. TLJ kind of just sidestepped that and tried to tell a good individual story (I don't blame Rian for that), then TROS was left with a LOT to reconcile but didn't embrace making a robust film to do that. I would've liked to see more Supreme Leader Kylo Ren, but he was never going to be enough to carry weight as THE villain of the entire saga. He was too conflicted, we'd seen him in too many vulnerable moments. Redemption was always a distinct possibility for him, being the last Skywalker. Rian even recently confirmed that he saw Kylo and Rey as having a romantic connection, so he probably saw some sort of redemption in Kylo's future too. You needed a true villain. Let's face it, you needed the Sith. Maybe it could've been Maul instead of Palpatine like in one of Lucas' treatments. But you needed some remnant of the Sith.

Again, mythologically....why tell 6 films about an overarching conflict between the Jedi and the Sith. And then a final 3 about....what? The Jedi vs. ...Dark Side Users Who Behave Exactly Like the Sith But Technically Aren't Sith... Because Reasons...? That is so sloppy and uneven.

Like it or not, Palpatine's return was a clean solve for a lot of the foundational issues of the trilogy, almost obvious in retrospect. Everything about the First Order was simply trying replicate his Empire, anyway. It's a shame they didn't execute his return better and we're left with what we got, but I am just trying to draw attention to some of the glaring issues with this trilogy's setup. I like that TLJ just did its thing and tried to just be a good movie on its own terms, but this trilogy was backed into somewhat of a corner from the moment it employed the mystery box formula. A third film was always going to have to reckon with that.

 

[antsman41]

No it didn’t, and shouldn’t have been... regarding Rey’s parentage.