The Rise of Skywalker General Star Wars Episode IX News/Speculation Thread - Part 1

Short answer no.

They tarnished the legacy characters and created what is at best a controversial new character. Now for some reason rather than create something new/better they seem bound and determined to make Rey happen.
 
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I’ll never forgive zoomers for rehabilitating the PT. I remember back in the zoomer-less internet days. The PT was rightfully derided and mocked. Them were the days.
 
The prequels are flawed, no one will argue that. But Revenge of the Sith at least stuck the landing, which is more than can be said for The Rise of Skywalker, which was a movie that absolutely should have been delayed so they could have more time to figure things out.
 
Snow Queen said:
Imagining a world where they delayed Rise of Skywalker to December 2020 before the other shoe dropped.
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Granted, delays don't always make for a better movie (Jurassic World Dominion comes to mind) but there was absolutely no reason for them not to delay Episode IX given the circumstances leading up to it, especially in a year where Disney had no shortage of billion dollar hits either.
 
Drizzle said:
The prequels are flawed, no one will argue that. But Revenge of the Sith at least stuck the landing, which is more than can be said for The Rise of Skywalker, which was a movie that absolutely should have been delayed so they could have more time to figure things out.
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The original script was far better by the director who left before Abrams took over ... I read it on-line. The entire section with Knights of the ren scenes and fighting would've been amazing.
 
Drizzle said:
The prequels are flawed, no one will argue that. But Revenge of the Sith at least stuck the landing, which is more than can be said for The Rise of Skywalker, which was a movie that absolutely should have been delayed so they could have more time to figure things out.
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From a purely personal point of view, the PT did not completely destroy the Skywalker Saga as TROS did. In fact, they added to it, as seeing the tragedy of Anakin's fall made his redemption all the more moving.
I haven't been able to watch any of the previous films since I saw TROS. I find it too depressing because despite so many arguing how 'hopeful and satisfying' it is, all I can see is the entire Skywalker/Solo family gone while Palpatine's seed remains. It didn't help one bit that I lost my mum the year TROS came out. I desperately needed a bit of escapism that year.
 
Sian said:
From a purely personal point of view, the PT did not completely destroy the Skywalker Saga as TROS did. In fact, they added to it, as seeing the tragedy of Anakin's fall made his redemption all the more moving.
I haven't been able to watch any of the previous films since I saw TROS. I find it too depressing because despite so many arguing how 'hopeful and satisfying' it is, all I can see is the entire Skywalker/Solo family gone while Palpatine's seed remains. It didn't help one bit that I lost my mum the year TROS came out. I desperately needed a bit of escapism that year.
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I'm sorry to hear that. TROS is associated with bad memories at the time it came out for me too which is partially a contributor as to why I don't rewatch it often apart from me just generally thinking it's the weakest Star Wars movie.
 
I've probably said this before but TROS tried too hard to please everyone.
Luke fans thought his character was 'disrespected' in TLJ, so they retconned him for TROS.
People argued Rey was overpowered so they made her Palpatine's granddaughter.
Ben fans wanted him redeemed so he got a rushed redemption.
Reylos were given a 'kiss' (as a former reylo let's just say that's all I want to say on that subject).
People who wanted FS Finn got him (although they did absolutely nothing with it).
People thought Snoke was a weak villain so they brought back Palps.

For me the whole film was a bit like the last season of GoT; it seemed they just wanted to hurry up and get the last chapter in the Skywalker Saga over so they could 'move on'. Curiously they do not seem to have done that; the tv series are set mostly BEFORE the ST, and despite their eagerness to rid themselves of the Skywalkers they keep dragging them all back, even Ben 'Kylo Ren' Solo in the comics.
 
Sian said:
I've probably said this before but TROS tried too hard to please everyone.
Luke fans thought his character was 'disrespected' in TLJ, so they retconned him for TROS.
People argued Rey was overpowered so they made her Palpatine's granddaughter.
Ben fans wanted him redeemed so he got a rushed redemption.
Reylos were given a 'kiss' (as a former reylo let's just say that's all I want to say on that subject).
People who wanted FS Finn got him (although they did absolutely nothing with it).
People thought Snoke was a weak villain so they brought back Palps.

For me the whole film was a bit like the last season of GoT; it seemed they just wanted to hurry up and get the last chapter in the Skywalker Saga over so they could 'move on'. Curiously they do not seem to have done that; the tv series are set mostly BEFORE the ST, and despite their eagerness to rid themselves of the Skywalkers they keep dragging them all back, even Ben 'Kylo Ren' Solo in the comics.
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I’m coming from the largely opposite POV regarding the other ST films - I’m a huge Finn fan, was a Rey Skywalker theorist, loved Kylo as a loathsome foil to Rey and Finn, foiled himself by smarter Hux, with a smaller, leaner First Order… and therefore I despised TLJ for developing/introducing Reylo, thought the film itself proved why “Rey Random” was a bad idea because it immediately became obsessed with Kylo instead, hated how it mistreated Finn, and thought that the Luke story was well executed but horribly and inaccurately conceived…

But I agree 100% that TROS’s issue is trying to compromise between contradictory, and at times even somewhat dramatically exclusive goals - albeit, I think the fact that it was mostly formed on both a mind-numbing key short production schedule and yet also still had to mostly come about before audiences got a reaction to TLJ makes things even weirder.

…But that also means I think it was sort of in an impossible situation unless LFL decided to either go 100% against TFA (and promote Kylo Ren/Ben Solo over Rey and make it entirely about him as a Villianous Protagonist and Anti-Heroic Redemption story) or go 100% against TLJ (and demote Kylo/Ben back below Rey and Finn, and to the rank of only a villainous supporting character, and consider retconning Rey into Luke’s daughter anyway.)

Episode IX had to deal with trying to appease Non-Reylo Rey fans, Finn fans, people who love-to-hate Kylo, fans of Kylo as the Big Bad, Reylo Rey fans, “Ben Solo did nothing wrong!” fans, fans of the OT3 who hated the idea of them dying off without any descendants and therefore wanted Ben Solo to live, fans of the OT3 who hated Ben Solo for getting 2 of the OT3 killed and therefore wanted him dead…

…And that’s just the people who you could still somewhat count on to by a ticket for one watch.

You’re people who wanted Rey and Ben to run off and have a child together were stuck in the same boat as those who wanted Rey Skywalker to marry Finn and give him the family name - **** out of luck and at each others’ throats already.

TFA and TLJ are completely incompatible without someone pulling a Geoff John’s and doing some kind of “disrespectful”-level retconning one way or another.

As an example of what I mean:
ENCK said:
The original script was far better by the director who left before Abrams took over ... I read it on-line. The entire section with Knights of the ren scenes and fighting would've been amazing.
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I disagree that the Trevorrow script would have ever been good for Rey, Finn, Kylo Ren as their antagonist, or for the fate of the Skywalker Family… but I do think it would 100% work as a story for Kylo Ren/Ben Solo as a dual Villianous Protagonist and Big Bad.

If you share TLJ’s priorities, which favor Kylo/Ben, and depend on less formidable characterizations of… everyone else… then it’s good, and mostly inoffensive and equal to TROS elsewhere.

(I‘ll admit that as a Finn fan, if the Trevorrow script had more explicitly created a “Finn leads the regular stormtroopers in rebellion against the ‘brute’ troopers” storyline, I’d like to a lot more… but by the same token, if Finn had been allowed to have a lightsaber and a quiet scene with Rey talking about having the Force in TROS as originally planned, I’d like that even more.)
 
I actually think, looking back, that making a tv series would have been far better than making films. They would have had a lot more time to flesh out the characters, and their backgrounds.
I wish Finn and Rey had been a bit 'darker' to be honest. He was a child soldier, she practically a slave and I would have liked to see the effects their backgrounds had on their characters. 'Grey' heroes are more interesting and watching them redeem themselves is great entertainment.
But I don't think I will get over the fact that Disney's original intention was to make the last of the Skywalkers an iredeemable bad guy. And to wipe out the bloodline. I'm sorry, but I find that unfair to those of us who loved the OT heroes.
 
Regarding his comment 'playing the friend, but we can't touch their heroes'....I might be barking up the wrong tree but it sounds like JB's referring to Rey here and the Finn/Rey ship that never happened.

Fact is, none of the 'ships' happened.
Even the intended one with Poe/Rey from the Colin Trevorrow DotF, never happened. I couldn't help but notice that both Finn and Poe were given non Rey love interests in Jannah and Zorri.
Reylo didn't happen, again all I have to say on that subject.

I think that Disney NEVER intended for Rey to have a 'romance'. Her character was meant to be a Jedi with no attachments. Daisy was quoted saying shortly before the release of TROS that Rey 'didn't need' a boyfriend.
Alan Dean Foster said post TFA that he'd wanted a Finn/Rey romance but Disney scuppered it.

They have announced a book set post TROS featuring Finn and Jannah but as yet all signs point to Rey being a traditional no attachments Jedi in her forthcoming movie. I think describing her as 'another Obi Wan' sums up perfectly her future in the SWU.
 
“He’s not the Andor guy, he’s the Ahsoka guy”

Some of us would actually call him the Clone Wars guy, but whatever. :o
 
I can't keep up with the latest fan outrage at this point. Pretty sure I heard fans begging for years and years to put Filoni in charge-- now because he's made a few things they didn't like, it seems like he's on the fan s*** list. It's just hilarious proof that most fans have no idea what they actually want until they see it.

People also need to accept that the Tony Gilroys (IE serious filmmakers) of the world can deliver something special like Andor, but they're never going to want to be fully in charge of Star Wars. Filoni's skill as a live action director might still be in question, but I'd still take somebody who actually deeply cares about Star Wars and has a long history with it if you're going to have someone in charge charting the overall narrative course. I think he deserves a shot to sink or swim on his own merits.
 
BatLobster said:
I can't keep up with the latest fan outrage at this point. Pretty sure I heard fans begging for years and years to put Filoni in charge-- now because he's made a few things they didn't like, it seems like he's on the fan s*** list. It's just hilarious proof that most fans have no idea what they actually want until they see it.

People also need to accept that the Tony Gilroys (IE serious filmmakers) of the world can deliver something special like Andor, but they're never going to want to be fully in charge of Star Wars. Filoni's skill as a live action director might still be in question, but I'd still take somebody who actually deeply cares about Star Wars and has a long history with it if you're going to have someone in charge charting the overall narrative course. I think he deserves a shot to sink or swim on his own merits.
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To be fair, it isn't just that Filoni is a genuinely terrible writer and director of live action - far beyond having made a few things people didn't like and into the realm of genuine incompetence - it's that his style is completely antithetical to what actually seems to work now for Star Wars.

Obviously a Tony Gilroy type is never going to run the studio, but someone with a preference towards the development of that type of material rather than making low grade sequels to two cartoon series among Filoni's many other worrying preferences would be preferable. Also, ideally, the key lesson from Gilroy: someone who isn't a fan and has none of the unhealthy reverence for it that SW (and most nerd properties) drowns in - I really, truly believe that dominance of the fan perspective in the driver's seat is something that has to be purged as the norm.

Filoni is a slop merchant. That's all he's been for awhile now. People love the animated series (which I've not seen and, yes, that made the D+ shows absolutely hilarious for me) but I'm not sure anyone is terribly enthused for Filoni's style, which is already now the norm in the franchise, to reach its apotheosis and become it.

Obviously SW fandom is one of the worst in the world. It's a hellscape. You're equally obviously correct that they don't know what they want. However, Filoni is such a recognizable figure with such a recognizable style whose now made so much that even diehard fans of his old stuff mostly disliked that it's really hard to fault people for being miffed at his further ascendency. It's not some big mystery what Filoni-controlled SW would look like, we all more or less know what it'll look like.
 
@SwordOfMorning

If people have never liked his live action stuff, that's fine. Everyone's entitled to their opinion. I'm specifically referring to the same people who were beating the drum for Filoni for years, who were also at fans of at least the earlier seasons of Mando, who are now throwing him under the bus. Like, who should be put in charge then? Who cares enough, has the relevant experience and wants the gig? Like maybe that person exists, but I sure as hell have no idea who they are. I'm just making the point that being in charge of this franchise is in a no-win scenario. It's why nobody will give Kennedy any credit for Andor despite her being a huge champion of it and Gilroy. Whoever has that power is going to be the focus of the fans' ire, because people seem to constantly need something to rail against. I liked season 1 and 2 of Mando. Clone Wars contains some of the best Star Wars IMO, though I do have to give credit to Lucas for being more directly involved with some of my favorite arcs.

People are also acting as if Filoni wouldn't possibly champion other cool projects that they would like. I don't see how it's any different than what's already going on with Kennedy in charge. Filoni has said numerous times that he enjoys getting inspired by other people's creative takes and was blown away by what Gilroy did with Andor. You still have the Mangold project in the works. It's not like everything would be directed by Filoni, if anything he might have to step back from directing.

I just don't have the bandwidth to get upset at this point. I have been in a "I'll have to take the good with the bad" mindset with Star Wars since...pretty much George Lucas decided to sell it to Disney. That was always going to be the deal when this thing became a giant corporate IP. The best we can hope for IMO is a creative working with the other creatives rather than a suit. Like, I'm not the biggest fan of James Gunn's style overall, but he does seem to be championing a filmmaker-first sort of approach for DC, so I can be down with that in theory.

SwordOfMorning said:
Obviously a Tony Gilroy type is never going to run the studio, but someone with a preference towards the development of that type of material rather than making low grade sequels to two cartoon series among Filoni's many other worrying preferences would be preferable. Also, ideally, the key lesson from Gilroy: someone who isn't a fan and has none of the unhealthy reverence for it that SW (and most nerd properties) drowns in - I really, truly believe that dominance of the fan perspective in the driver's seat is something that has to be purged as the norm.
Click to expand...

Another point on this one specifically-- Star Wars is in a bind with this, because of its cultural status. Its influence is so ubiquitous for a certain generation of filmmakers that Gilroy was almost an anomaly in that sense where he doesn't care about it. And it's also in a bind because the people who do love Star Wars and are talented filmmakers aren't going to want the job, for a number of reasons-- one major one being its own fanbase.

Remember when McQuarrie said there was a time he would've loved to make a Star Wars movie and then changed his mind after he saw the reaction to TLJ? It's a shame because I think he could've crushed it. I mean part of the job of running a major IP like this is to create cohesion and understand the lore and all of that stuff. You should have a knowledge and a point of view on what's come before if you're going to be tasked with overseeing how it moves forward. If it's not something you're bringing with you to the job, then it's something you're going to have to learn on the job. The Gilroy thing is totally irrelevant to me in this discussion. Hire more people like him to make projects and give them creative freedom, definitely. But I wouldn't want Tony Gilroy running Star Wars as a whole, unless he actually voiced a desire to do that and felt they had some sort of holistic grasp of the franchise. That is not the case though. He made a specific project, that was a very specifically adult take on the material.

Now, there's a whole other discussion to be had here about whether something like Star Wars even should persist as a perpetual corporate IP in the first place, but that's the reality we're in. So I default back to, I'll have to take the good with the bad.
 
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I really enjoyed Ahsoka so Filoni taking over would be okay with me. It's like Kennedy has had great success running things.

Far from it in fact.
 
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